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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
When you are not ARG'ing or playing Halo 2...
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ariock
Has a Posse


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 762
Location: SF East Bay

 		Davey and Goliath
Urthstripe:

Actually, it was D&G in a Mountain Dew ad. When you mentioned it, the line popped directly into my head and I heard Davey saying it, but I was wracking my brain trying to remember the context. I knew it couldn't have been the actual cartoon since that was a religious show, produced by the Lutheran church. But it appears that they licensed the characters to Mountain Dew, and allowed them to put those words into little Davey's mouth.
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
One reason I am proud to be Lutheran.
Laughing

So, how about that local sports squad? I think they may go all the way this year!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:36 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

 		for once not much to say (comparatively) Smile
I don't watch football though... *shrug*
up here we watch hockey Razz

anyway, a couple points...

urthstripe wrote:
And I've never believe the Bible to be literally true or God's verbatim. The writers of the Gospels wrote it decades after it happened so of course there would be discrepancies because of the changes in oral tradition and the political climate of the times, of course. But what can't be denied, by Christians at least, is the spirtual truth it holds for us.


well, to dispell all comments about the non-validity of the claim that the Bible is the inspired word of God... Obviously, if you believe there can be mistakes because of the time before the first writings, then you can't believe it was God-breathed. Whereas, if you believe the Bible to be inerrent, then you believe that what the writers wrote is accurate, because they were guided by God, and God wouldn't allow incorrect content in His word... So, if it's God's Word, then it is infallible. If it isn't, it falls under strong likelihood of error... and as I'm sure you've heard, if one part of the Bible is wrong, then why believe any of it? When it comes to translations, that is specifically why in apologetics, it is pretty much an absolute necessity to know the original Hebrew, to avoid or dispell any arguments about mis-interpretations of meanings of english words.

If you hold the Bible as simply a spiritual guide, then really there's no foundation to believe that the Bible is correct, except that it's a nice book to read. And using it for any kind of defense is easily debatable because there's no Truth in it, and it becomes subjective. Christianity is entirely based on its own claim that is the inspired, infallible Word of God. Whether written by Him directly (not true) or written through men by Him (true). So if you believe that men made mistakes in writing, then the Bible can't be what it claims to be, Christianity is a lost cause, and the Bible is just a helpful book. If you believe in God, that the Bible is what it claims to be, then it can never be disproven, or found with error, at the very least in the original words written by the first writers.

Phaedra wrote:
Well, so say the gospels. Our own records present a very different political picture. Yes, the Pharisees were very concerned with politics -- as in, getting rid of the Romans. As far as whose records are right, <shrug> that's a matter of faith, I guess.

I guess so Smile

[quote="Phaedra]Oh joy. If you don't mind, I'll be leaving now. (Got to stop getting myself into these situations. Note to self: no more provoking the Unfiction Christians...) [/quote]
au contraire, it's quite interesting... Smile unless you don't like it. IMO, as long as it remains civilized, what's the harm? Except that it gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic Razz hehe

Quote:
And even if Jesus had done something that, under Jewish law, warranted a death sentence, the account of his trial in the gospels flies in the face of accepted Jewish legal practices.

Probably why his death was so controversial... people simply wanted him dead. as far as my knowledge, he was doing quite a number of things that were against the jewish laws of the time, and generally those higher up did not appreciate what he was doing (generally speaking, individuals' pride seemed to be a major aspect of the hatred)... to the point that they would rather release a mass-murderer than the innocent man. It simply didn't make sense, as you say. Yet even today, as paralleled earlier, many innocent Christians are simply hated because of their faith. Some people hate, and some people sympathize. You could say at that time, the haters were in control, and had the power to put Jesus in the position of a death sentence. A sentence which could have been stopped by anyone, because Jesus was innocent. A sentence that many people of all types wanted to see happen, and that many people of all types wished would stop. Once again we see that no one group of people in particular was at fault.

So yes, it's odd that jewish leaders of the time would condemn him to death, but given all the circumstances, and how different Jesus was from other 'messiahs', somehow they found a way to put him in a position where the only answer was death of an innocent man. So everyone, in the end, got their own way, except those who loved Jesus (and even then, many realized that Jesus was doing and why, and accepted his death)... the haters got Jesus dead, and the politics quelled rebellions (at least for that situation). Neither of those have any excuse to say they had no hand in Jesus' death.

Anyway... back to work for me Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:10 pm
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archon
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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thebruce wrote:
Except that it gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic Razz hehe


When you aren't ARG'ing or playing Halo 2, you're trying vehemently to defend your religion against a world that doesn't understand it, and sometimes seems to not want to understand it.

These damn tags will be the end of me.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:33 pm
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urthstripe
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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 		The_Bruce, I've always believed that the Gospels were indeed inspired by God but I don't think the importance of them in our faith lies in the tiny literal historical facts that are in it. Furthermore, I think God inspired them to write the religious and spiritual truth in the Gospels, but I don't think God came down to Luke or whoever and said, "Hey, write down everything exactly as I'm about to say it."

thebruce wrote:
Christianity is entirely based on its own claim that is the inspired, infallible Word of God.


It is to a point. You don't think God literally created the world in seven days, do you? It is not literally true, but the spiritual truth is there: that God created everything and it is good.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:24 pm
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Phaedra
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urthstripe wrote:

thebruce wrote:
Christianity is entirely based on its own claim that is the inspired, infallible Word of God.


It is to a point. You don't think God literally created the world in seven days, do you?


Uh, Urthstripe? Over here.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:49 pm
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urthstripe
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 		Oh yeah....I wondered where that thread went...

I'm going to stop talking now because it's all a cycle of the same arguments over and over and WHEE!

So, how ABOUT them Steelers?!?!?

SUPER-BOWL BOUND!

Seriously, who do you have going to the Superbowl, and then winning?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:31 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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 		hehe you got it before I did Phaedra... funny how it always seems to come to the Genesis account of creation when dealing with the infallibility of the Bible... *shrug* twas a great discussion though... Phaedra, you made the reality of Jewish history a little more real to me, other than solely through theology, or straight biblical accounts. It's really good to actually have a jewish perspective, and an intelligent one at that too Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:58 pm
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urthstripe
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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 		It goes to Genesis because it's one of the most recognizable and popular portions of the Bible.

And Phaedra is a smartypants, ain't that the truth.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:10 pm
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario
urthstripe wrote:
It goes to Genesis because it's one of the most recognizable and popular portions of the Bible.

And Phaedra is a smartypants, ain't that the truth.

well, yes and yes Smile
but it also goes to Genesis because if Genesis isn't how it describes, then ultimately the reason for Jesus' life and death and resurrection is in vain. But we can get to that elsewhere Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:33 pm
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Phaedra
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archon wrote:
thebruce wrote:
Except that it gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic Razz hehe


When you aren't ARG'ing or playing Halo 2, you're trying vehemently to defend your religion against a world that doesn't understand it, and sometimes seems to not want to understand it.

These damn tags will be the end of me.


Oh, archon...I'm sure it's not that awful for them! Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:13 am
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archon
Decorated

Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Phaedra wrote:
Oh, archon...I'm sure it's not that awful for them! Laughing


Very Happy Shocked Razz Bang Head Drool Censored Jetpack Cursing Mr. Green B.S. Shocked Silly Rolling Eyes Crying or Very sad Laughing Smile

Sad Cool Question

Confused Surprised Locky!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:47 am
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Gestas
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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archon wrote:
Phaedra wrote:
Oh, archon...I'm sure it's not that awful for them! Laughing


Very Happy Shocked Razz Bang Head Drool Censored Jetpack Cursing Mr. Green B.S. Shocked Silly Rolling Eyes Crying or Very sad Laughing Smile

Sad Cool Question

Confused Surprised Locky!


Ahem. If I may be of service, I think I can translate for archon here.

Very Happy - I'm really happy that you're happy Phaedra.
Shocked - But I'm shocked that you could think that.
Razz - I razz you for your thoughts.
Bang Head - Oops. By angering the Phaedra, I will inevitably be subject to a tongue-lashing the likes of which I have rarely seen.
Drool - Perhaps if I pretend I was incapacitated she will take pity on me.
Censored - No that won't &%#%&ing work!
Jetpack - If only I could fly away from this thread right now.
Cursing - But I left my jetpack at the cleaner's and I loaned my spare to that person who smelled funny at the bus stop.
Mr. Green - I shall have to put a brave front on things, and smile my troubles away.
B.S. - Yeah, like that will work. This is total b*** s***!
Shocked Silly - Oops. I emoticon-swore thrice in this reply already. What if my family is reading this?
Rolling Eyes - Yeah, right. Like my family would be reading this anyway.
Crying or Very sad - Why doesn't my family share my interests?
Laughing - I laugh so that I do not cry.
Smile - Well, it's not that funny. Good mood slipping.

Sad - I just realised I haven't really answered Phaedra's post yet.
Cool - But I'm too cool to be constrained by such worldly things anyway.
Question - Or am I?

Confused - Hmm. Better not dwell on this. Others might question my coolness too.
Surprised - Unless they already are???
Locky! - Quick! Lock the thread! There must be no questioning of archon's coolness!!!


So, archon? Was I close?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:13 am
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
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 		Jetpack

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:43 am
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Nightmare Tony
Entrenched

Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 824
Location: Meadowbrook

 		Gestas, that was SO inspired Worshippy Worshippy Worshippy Worshippy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:11 pm
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INCyr
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Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 589
Location: Front Range of the Rockies!

 		Heh, I just skimmed this and read a couple of the longer posts, and I just want to say how happy and amazed I am to have found a community that can discuss such controversial topics in such an adult manner. You guys rock!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:31 pm
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