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 Forum index » Diversions » Console/Video Game Discussion
[Halo 2] [SPEC/SPOILERS] Halo 2 NOT Over? - The Facts
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NSA
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From the end of Halo 2 "... my creators activated the Rings, they, and all additional sentient life, in three radii of the galactic center died, as planned."

Now, we dont know where the Forerunner's claimed the galactic center was located, but its possible that Earth's location was outside the three radii. GS 343 makes it pretty clear that the Halo firing was well thought out and planned, so it makes sense that they would plan for the Ark and the firing device to be secure, if only to be able to fire it again if something went wrong.

It also wouldnt make sense for a race like the Forerunners to kill themselves and all other sentient beings off entirely, since that would in-effect be the same as letting the Flood win. If the Flood managed to infect the universe, they would eventally die off as a result of a lack of new hosts. In effect they would kill their own food chain, and accomplish the same thing as the Halos. The Forerunners must have known this, and known the Flood infection had only reached "three radii of the Galactic Center". So I imagine the Forerunner did the equivilent of cutting off their own hand to save the rest of the body, or something. Kill most so a few could live? It just doesnt make sense to kill everyone in the galaxy just so they dont get.. killed by the Flood. Humm.

When the third Prophet (forget his name!!) is dying from the Flood infectious form, he tells Master Chief that the Prophet of Truth is going to "Earth, to finish what was started.. and this time, none of you will be left behind". This could be taken many ways, but I believe he is referring to the surviving Forerunners managing to survive the first Halo detonation? It seems the Prophets know a LOT more about the Halo's than they are letting onto.. so I guess we wait and see.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:16 am
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Fenwicked
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NSA wrote:
When the third Prophet (forget his name!!) is dying from the Flood infectious form...


That was Mercy, who found none. Mr. Green

And I would assume the "galactic center" they speak of is the actual center of the galaxy. The center of the ginormous cluster of stars in the middle of the spiral arms. Three radii of the galactic center would cover a volume (quick math) about 27 times larger than the galaxy itself. So no matter where in the galaxy they decided the "center" was, Earth would have been well within the blast area.

So, unless the Forerunners occupied space far outside of our galaxy, any life they wanted to survive would have had to have been shielded or protected somehow.

And yeah, the whole six-one-way-half-dozen-the-other thing. The Forerunners, being an advanced and intelligent race, would not have gone through all the trouble of creating the fortress worlds to destroy themselves just to prevent the Flood from doing the same. So I think it's fairly safe to say that there is SOME way to protect oneself from the blast. Whether that's being in a certain place, or using a certain device, I don't know.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:11 am
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archon
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I'm with NSA on this one; the Ark is probably Earth and the surviving Forerunners AKA humans.

The other reason behind creating the Halos is that maybe becoming one with the Flood is just too terrible an existence to have to be subjected to. It's gotta be hell on your sinuses, at least.

edit: To, two, too.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:48 am
Last edited by archon on Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Anton P. Nym
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archon wrote:
I'm with NSA on this one; the Ark is probably Earth and the surviving Forerunners AKA humans.

Oh, I hope not. I'm kinda tired of the "children of the gods" plotline that that'd entail... I'd rather see Humanity become privileged through its own merits (or slide into obscurity through its own faults) than ride on the coattails of the Forerunners 'cause they're our Daddies.

Besides, both Gravemind and 343 Guilty Spark say that the Forerunners died... I don't trust Gravemind, but I do trust Sparky to speak only what he views as the literal truth and thus give credence to the idea that the Forerunners committed mass suicide rather than let the Flood win.

Quote:
The other reason behind creating the Halos is that maybe becoming one with the Flood is just too terrible an existence to have to be subjected too. It's gotta be hell on your sinuses, at least.

Or maybe it's the itching. Go through eternity with a skin rash you just can't scratch...

-- Steve's hoping he never has to go into a body cast, for that reason as well as others.

PS: by the way, the "3 radii" mention teases at me... if we look at "radii" as meaning "ring detonation radii" (25 000 ly, according to 343GS in Halo1) instead of "galactic radii" it ties in rather well with how I imagine the rings are arranged:

a bee!  a bee!


If each cell is 50 000ly across, and the center cell is centered on the galactic center, that's blanket coverage of the entire galaxy and well outside as well... and the pattern is 3 blast radii in radius. 7 rings, no gaps, minimal overlap. (Though there's a hole now, thanks to Cortana and the MC.)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:43 am
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adfegg
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SuperJerms wrote:
Why was Regret underarmed for invading Earth? He didn't see it coming. He was just following the signature of the ILB EMP blast, expecting to find an artifact on some backwater planet. Surprise, he stumbled across Earth. Again, the CftU insert tells us that they didn't know where Earth was. The Cole Protocol worked, it seems.

How does this fit in with them knowing where the Earth was in the third Halo novel? Dunno, unless that is later in the timeline than H2.


The Covenant, under Regret, attacked Earth on October the 20th. I don't have 'First Strike' to hand, but I'm sure everything in it happened in September.

I think it might be possible that the 'First Strike' fleet was mobilised after the EMP blast. Shortly before the Covenant arrive, Jersey mentions that 'My number came up three weeks ago.' Assuming I'm interpreting that correctly(I'm not sure I am), then at least three weeks have passed between Challa base and the Covenant attack.

That still leaves the puzzle of why they had such a large fleet to begin with and such a raggedy-ass one later. And if they weren't expecting a human force, why did they bother bringing those bombs? - unless they were intended for some other use.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:19 am
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archon
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Anton P. Nym wrote:
Oh, I hope not. I'm kinda tired of the "children of the gods" plotline that that'd entail... I'd rather see Humanity become privileged through its own merits (or slide into obscurity through its own faults) than ride on the coattails of the Forerunners 'cause they're our Daddies.


Yeah, it has seemed rather obvious since Halo started, but at the moment it puts the most peices together. Why didn't the Covenant want to include mankind in their happy-fun club? Why are all the Covenant symbols and Forerunner technology so familiar to the Spartans? Why does 343 act confused with the Chief when he refuses to activate the fourth Halo? Why does Mercy say what he did when the Infection Form is munching on his esophagus (heh)?

Humans are just surviving Forerunner, at least as far as I can tell. The Forerunner probably just made Earth to sustain themselves at a pre-sentient level of existence, while giving Earth what humanity needed to regain their former glory. I suppose that makes them children of the gods in that sense, but more importantly is that humanity are the gods. Look how quickly human scientists have been able to absorb Covenant technology into various things. Only humans can activate the Halos, after all.

Edit number one: http://halosm.bungie.org/story/staten102204.html says that Bungie does NOT consider I Love Bees to be canon to the Halo story. Oh well. Jan, Jersey, Kamal, and Durga will always have a special place in my memory anyway.

It also occured to me that Mercy may have been saying what he did because of Regret's hasty invasion of Earth. Why do the Covenant want to destroy humanity so completely, though?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:10 pm
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ubersaurus
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Joe Staten answered a few questions about Halo over on HBO, and said that everything from the novels or the Bees is subject to change from Bungie themselves-hell, he personally didn't consider the Bees canon(although he loved it). He also answers a few other little tidbits, like that the 3 distant SPARTANs don't affect Halo 2 at all, he covers the different Ages of the covenant, but most importantly, he dodges the question of the Covenant releasing the Flood, saying that "no rational being would knowingly release the Flood". He also dodges any questions that relate humans to forerunner, but says that ONI knows far more then anyone realized.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:10 am
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NSA
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Those different "Ages" titles are sure interesting. It sounds like they are written from the Covenant perspective, since we know they refer to the "4th age of Reconciliation" etc.

Quote:
Age(s) of Abandonment
Age(s) of Conflict
Age(s) of Discovery
Age(s) of Reconciliation
Age(s) of Conversion
Age(s) of Doubt
Age(s) of Reclamation


Sounds like:

Abandonment was the time the universe was recovering from the first Halo attack,
Conflict was infighting between all the races of the Covenant,
Discovery is the re-discovery of Forerunner technology,
Reconciliation is getting all the Races back together into the Covenant.
Conversion/Doubt/Reclamation ... sound like its in the future, and deals with the dissoultion of the Covenant and return of the Forerunners [Humans]? Humm!!

As far as the Covenant 'releasing' the Flood, it seems like they do more harm in not containing it, like 2401 PT mentioned. But I thought I remembered 343 GS saying the Covies unleashed the Flood on the first Halo .. humm!

And it sucks that ILB isnt canon!! Boo hiss. Maybe it'll change.. someday..

But I guess its good to know the books are mostly correct storywise Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:43 am
Last edited by NSA on Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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archon
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Just gonna give my brief rundown of the age names:

Age(s) of Abandonment - like NSA, the period of growth after Halo firing
Age(s) of Conflict - Elites versus Prophets
Age(s) of Discovery - Prophets find Forerunner tech
Age(s) of Reconciliation - Prophets and Elites come together to form Covenant
Age(s) of Conversion - Elites rope in the Grunts and the Hunters, maybe the Engineers and Drones, too. And Jackals, of course.
Age(s) of Doubt - Probably when the Grunt uprising was. Maybe other races had heretics, too.
Age(s) of Reclamation - Discovery of the Halos/beginning of the Covenant attempts to fully harness all Forerunner technology and modify it for their purposes.

The later history is pretty much based on assumption, but everything before that is documented Covenant history. The Flood may have been found in either the Age(s) of Doubt or Reclamation, at least in my opinion. The Prophets probably learned that humans still existed in doubt. In my opinion.

Edit: Always forget the Jackals.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:33 am
Last edited by archon on Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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adfegg
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ubersaurus wrote:
Anton P. Nym wrote:
DreamOfTheRood wrote:
And Sharquoi? What are those?

Get that one right, and win a prize. We don't know, and it's driving some of us squirrelly.

-- Steve wonders if they're the Drinol, or maybe the Scarab walking tanks. But they also could be something entirely different...


The current theory is that it isn't the Scarab, since the Scarab is theorized to be the "insectlike drilling machine" from First Strike. It kinda makes sense-it's the only covenant machine that looks insectine(and legs=more stability on uneven terrain), it's main gun certainly doesn't fire fast enough to be a real useful weapon, and, all through metropolis, that thing was running, rather then outright fighting.

My guess is that the Sharquoi is either some weapon on the Forerunner ship, or a covenant species brought out only for the most extreme circumstances-like a super hunter.


I don't know where this name, 'Sharquoi' came from, never heard it before, but I may have something interesting. In the Collector's Edition DVD, there is a deleted scene showing murals depicting the formation of the Covenant. In one such mural shows all the species currently within the Covenant. Dominating it are the Prophets and the Elites, the founding members. Below them are listed the others:- Hunters, Drones, Brutes, Grunts, I'm presuming that's a Jackal in the middle of the top row ... and something else. It's big, bigger than a Hunter, and it looks like it is hunchbacked, but that could just be because it's stooping forward.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:00 pm
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ubersaurus
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NSA wrote:
Those different "Ages" titles are sure interesting. It sounds like they are written from the Covenant perspective, since we know they refer to the "4th age of Reconciliation" etc.

Quote:
Age(s) of Abandonment
Age(s) of Conflict
Age(s) of Discovery
Age(s) of Reconciliation
Age(s) of Conversion
Age(s) of Doubt
Age(s) of Reclamation


Sounds like Abandonment was the time the universe was recovering from the first Halo attack, conflict was infighting between all the races, discovery is the re-discovery of Forerunner technology, Reconciliation is getting all the Races back together into the Covenant. Conversion/Doubt/Reclamation ... sound like its in the future, and deals with the dissoultion of the Covenant and return of the Forerunners [Humans]? Humm!!

As far as the Covenant 'releasing' the Flood, it seems like they do more harm in not containing it, like 2401 PT mentioned. But I thought I remembered 343 GS saying the Covies unleashed the Flood on the first Halo .. humm!

And it sucks that ILB isnt canon!! Boo hiss. Maybe it'll change.. someday..

But I guess its good to know the books are mostly correct storywise Smile


Conversion, I think, is the age that the Elites and Prophets go and get the other races into the Covenant. Reconciliation, I believe, is where the Elite and Prophet's war with each other ended, Doubt was probably the period of the Grunt Rebellion, when various members felt that maybe this wasn't going like it was supposed to.

Isn't this currently the Age of Reclamation?

The way I see it, ILB is a side story, and as long as it doesn't contradict anything else in the Halo universe (which I'm pretty sure Bungie made sure it didn't for the moment), it can't get fully discounted. But it does put an end to the question of whether or not the ILB artifact is what brought the Covies to Earth.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:12 am
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archon
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Anton P. Nym wrote:
-- Steve wonders if they're the Drinol, or maybe the Scarab walking tanks. But they also could be something entirely different...


My guess is that it's either the Juggernaut like Anton said, or it's the Engineers that are the mechanics for the Covenant.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:14 am
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NSA
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archon wrote:
Just gonna give my brief rundown of the age names:

Age(s) of Abandonment - like NSA, the period of growth after Halo firing
Age(s) of Conflict - Elites versus Prophets
Age(s) of Discovery - Prophets find Forerunner tech
Age(s) of Reconciliation - Prophets and Elites come together to form Covenant
Age(s) of Conversion - Elites rope in the Grunts and the Hunters, maybe the Engineers and Drones, too.
Age(s) of Doubt - Probably when the Grunt uprising was. Maybe other races had heretics, too.
Age(s) of Reclamation - Discovery of the Halos/beginning of the Covenant attempts to fully harness all Forerunner technology and modify it for their purposes.

The later history is pretty much based on assumption, but everything before that is documented Covenant history. The Flood may have been found in either the Age(s) of Doubt or Reclamation, at least in my opinion. The Prophets probably learned that humans still existed in doubt. In my opinion.


You all are so much smarter than me Smile Hehe but yeah, I forgot Halo 2 takes place in the "Ninth Age of Reclamation", and thus probably most of the events in the history of Master Chief are all included in the 9th age. I dont know how long an Age lasts, or how long an age within an age lasts!

On an unrelated note, did we ever find out how Regret knew how to find Delta Halo? And why it only took a few hours (I guess) for the whole Covenant fleet to arrive at Delta Halo, but in the first Halo game, reinforcements never arrived until after Master Chief blew Halo 04 all to heck. Seems kinda odd I guess, like how the Covenant managed to be entrenched on both Halo's before you can even reach the surface, even though they were most certainly not in the systems before us.. humm!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:21 am
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weephun
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OK, going off memory here, so I could really be wrong, but isn't there a quote in the manual that comes with the collectors edition that list as coming from the Age of Reconciliation?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:54 am
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NSA
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Well in the Halo 2 soundtrack CD, there is the Covenant "Writ of Union":

Quote:
So full of hate were our eyes
That none of us could see
Our war would yield countless dead
But never victory

So let us cast arms aside
And like discard our wrath
Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
Whilst we find the path


- High Council of Concordance,
First Age of Reconciliation

So I suppose that supports the idea that Reconciliation is the creation of the 'modern' Covenant I guess. I didnt see any reference in the booklet from Halo 2 though.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:09 pm
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