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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Chasing the Wish » CTW: Interaction
EMAIL: Dr. Kendra
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Barbarellany
Decorated


Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 245

Touche' Dr. Kendra. I really do some art therapy so I can answer. I don't see how Sarah's work would be the missed info that brings us to proof regarding Dale though.
Quote:

Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:09:32 -0800
From: mkendraSPLATklepsydra.net | This is spam | Add to Address Book
To: "Barbara M"
Subject: Re: Dale Missing

Dear Barbara,

Unfortunately, no, Dale is not back at Klepsydra, and I haven't heard
from
him. I am concerned, as are a number of people, but I don't have any
clue as
to where he could be right now. I can only hope that the police will
be able
to track him down, since I'm afraid he may be in a fugue state and
possibly not
even remember where he lives or even who he is.

I'm sorry, I wish I could give you better news.

You mentioned in your previous e-mail that you are an art therapist.
Have you
heard of an artist named Sarah Wyatt? There's a picture of one of her
pieces
at http://www.aglauranj.org/hnnews/page2.htm. Somebody asked me about
it, and
art therapy isn't my thing.


-Michelle Kendra


PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 6:23 pm
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dmax
Unfictologist

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1387
Location: Location: Location!

the point would be that she was expressing something about the mystic stuff in the area through her art, before she mysteriously disappeared.

the other hope was that kendra recognized her name as an inpatient there and linked her to dale, but it didn't happen
_________________
That sounds like something HITLER would say!

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 6:41 pm
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Barbarellany
Decorated


Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 245

Ah, but art therapy isn't her area. I wrote back and gave her first a standard reading of the drawing then suggested something other. See if she bites. I suggested she talk to someone else at Klepsydra as maybe someone else recognizes the work. I even asked if Dale did any drawings. We'll see.

My reply.
Quote:

Dear Michelle, (may I use your given name?)

I am quite worried about Dale.I don't like choosing
between a kidnapping or Dale wandering in a fugue
state. I am still hoping that he has had enough
disappointment and harrassment from those he owes
money to that he just went somewhere quiet to relax
and heal. If you do here from him, please let me know
as I will tell you if I hear.

As for the artwork of Sarah Wyatt, I haven't met the
woman nor do I know anything of her personal
mythology, her state or purpose when she did this
piece. What I can give you a general reading without
the personification Sarah could fill in. Do you know
where this woman is? She seems to be missing as well.

If this was done in a therapeutic session I would say
that the tree represent the client. She is well
grounded in her femininity and has a good mind. This
is represented in the roots as a uterus and what seems
to be the birth of the cosmos enveloped there as well
the orange sun like area which shows a labrynth like
the mind and thought. The two areas are well balanced.
She also shows the land and sea in seeming tranquil
state, so she seems at peace with her environment.
That the land and see are such a small part of the
work suggests that though she is aware of the outside
world, she is working through a more personal place.

Now remember, I don't know her at all so this could
represent a norse myth regarding the yggdrassel tree
or simply an abstract of a tree she knows, painted
near the end of the day, located near the Jersey shore
or lake, expressing that the tree seems old enough to
be there since the beginning of time and it all
puzzles her. Smile

I would be interested in seeing more of her work to
see if the same themes are in place or if she has
developed them further. Do you know if this was her
last work before disappearing? Wait, your not in
anyway suggesting that Dale did any drawings of trees
while at Klepsydra are you? As far as I know, Dale is
more of a writer than a painter. I would be sad if he
kept any drawings from me.

Well, I hope that helps to some degree if only to show
generally how art therapy works. Again, not having
access to the artist limits what I can say. I usually
work with clients to help them discover and understand
their own symbolic nature. Their own words and
definitions have more validity in truely understanding
themselves.

If you aren't a student of Jung, maybe a colleague who
is could give you more insight along these lines. It
is a very interesting area.

Well, I hope we hear from Dale soon. Does he have an
appointment with you soon? May he show up there well
rested and refreshed.

Sincerely,
Barbara


PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 7:24 pm
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Barbarellany
Decorated


Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 245

I got 2 today

Well, I guess I wasted my time with the art discussion, she didn't go anywhere with it, nor does it seem she's going anywhere with mythology.
Mention of hynosis again, but I don't know where to go with it.

Quote:

From: mkendraSPLATklepsydra.net | This is spam | Add to Address Book
To: "Barbara M"
Subject: Re: Dale Missing

Dear Barbara,

I haven't heard from Dale, unfortunately. I can only hope, like you,
that he
has chosen for some reason to go missing for a while, and will get in
contact
with someone soon. He had been quite insistent on wanting to be
hypnotized
before he disappeared (even though I'm not keen on the idea), so I hope
that he
will contact me about that soon, if for no other reason.

Thank you for the art analysis. I had never heard of Sarah Wyatt until
someone
asked me about her and the particular piece you looked at. Art therapy
is a
completely separate department from where I am, and here at Klepsydra,
mostly
the realm of psychologists, not psychiatrists. In my own practice, I
tend to
be eclectic, but usually lean towards cognitive behavior modification
when I
have time for psychotherapeutic interventions, combined with
medication. Jung
never held much interest for me; I see too much variation in people's
psychopathy to believe that there is some big mental dictionary I can
use to
get the "true" meaning of every patient's delusion.

-Michelle Kendra


No real news in the second, but we are now first name basis.

Quote:

From: mkendraSPLATklepsydra.net | This is spam | Add to Address Book
To: "Barbara M"
Subject: Re: Dale

Barbara,

I just wrote a response to your previous e-mail and then saw this one.
I'm not
sure whether to be reassured or more concerned now.

Is Dale still staying with Sam? Is he okay? He wasn't in the house
when it
was blown up, was he? He told me that he had borrowed a lot of money
and that
the loan sharks were after him, but I didn't put as much stock into
that as I
apparently should have.

I apologize for being very brief, but I need to see if I can find
somebody who
knows where Dale is. This is the last thing he needs right now.

-Michelle


PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:04 pm
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Barbarellany
Decorated


Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 245

We have her attention

Now we seem to have her attention. I wrote back sending pictures of the graffiti and Sal's email. Told her about the tattoo and the disc. I think we should not mention the guides at this point. She will go back to balking if it's too much to fast. Let her ask us for more.
I have asked her to look at Sarah Wyatt's case for any similarity.


Quote:
Dear Michelle,

I'm sorry; I think I just accidently sent you an e-mail without any
response.
Sorry about that.

Your message has made me more worried than before. What exactly is
this
symbol? Is it some sort of occult symbol? If Dale had been involved
in this
sort of thing and been threatened if he told any of their secrets, it
might
explain some of his apparent paranoia. But now it seems that he wasn't
paranoid; there may actually be persons unknown out to get Dale.

Who were these other people, and what were they asking about Dale? Who
did
they ask? If we can find out what occult group they belong to, we may
be able
to figure out their methods and how to help keep Dale safe.

-Michelle


PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:07 pm
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dmax
Unfictologist

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1387
Location: Location: Location!

a little info about ego

Quote:
Ego state theory is closely connected to dissociation theory and also to concepts dealing with the phenomenon of multiple personality, psychogenic amnesia, and fugue states.

Ego state theory postulates the existence of networks of personality traits, experiences, feelings and behaviors, which in various degrees of cohesion are bound by common principles (Watkins 1991). Several ego states may coexist as fairly distinct entities within the same individual, and their boundaries are thought to be loosely defined and malleable, in contrast to the more rigidly constructed demarcations found in multiple personality syndromes. In the hypnotic situation, different ego states may be communicated with, for the purpose of bringing about a more global psychological integration (ego state therapy) (Beahrs 1982).
Boldface is my addition.

So I wrote to her:
Quote:
Michelle -

Still no sign of Dale, from what I can tell. I want to believe that he's safe, but in hiding.

I realize we can't act on it now, but I'm liking your idea of hypnosis more. I was re-reading one my texts on the subject and came across something that you clearly already are familiar with, regarding ego state theory:

"Ego state theory is (see quote above)... (Beahrs 1982)."

That last sentence makes me think that, under hypnosis, we might find several ego states - or we might not, which would also clear up some remaining questions about Dale's mental state. Either way, it would be a relatively harmless way to add to our understanding of this scenario.

Now that you know more about all this, I'm wondering if you could ask your colleagues at Klepsydra if they've encountered anything similar: specifically, stories of wish granting, patients with unusual tattoos, encounters with six-fingered men, or any fascination with the Ash Grove graveyard. In a lot of circumstances, hallucinations or confabulations aren't created out of whole cloth, but are from some incidental influence. I'm wondering if those influences have affected other members of the community.

_________________
That sounds like something HITLER would say!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 12:58 pm
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Barbarellany
Decorated


Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 245

New mail from Michelle. Now I wonder if she reads too quickly as well and missed some of what I said, such as I don't think Dale belongs to a cult, or she is trying to steer me.

Quote:

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 20:08:44 -0700
From: mkendraSPLATklepsydra.net | This is spam | Add to Address Book
To: "Barbara M"
Subject: Re: Dale

Barbara,

Looking back over our correspondence, I see I called you Michelle
before--sorry! I guess that proves how distracted I am. And the info
you sent
isn't helping.

You've sent evidence that loan sharks are indeed after Dale. I should
have
listened more to that part of his story. Help me get this whole thing
straight--Dale was/is part of some cult and the cult people are after
him as
well as loan sharks? And the loan sharks ran into the cult people when
they
all went to his house looking for him? Or had Dale hired some security
to keep
his house safe (which obviously didn't work)? If we know exactly who
is
apparently after Dale, it will make it easier to help him.

Just because I don't buy into Jung doesn't mean I've discounted all
things
spiritual. I do believe that there is more out there than we can see.
However, that doesn't mean that every time a patient tells me that he's
seeing
things means that he's got some access into the spirit world.

Was Sarah Wyatt a patient at Klepsydra, or are there other records that
you're
referring to? Or maybe there's a book of her artwork? Other than the
fact
that both Dale and Sarah have apparently gone missing, I'm not seeing a
similarity. And I dearly hope that Dale will turn up soon.

-Michelle


PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:00 am
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dmax
Unfictologist

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1387
Location: Location: Location!

more from michelle

I had titled my last letter, about hypnotism, "Kreskin at Klepsydra?" and here's her reply:
Quote:
Dear Dan,

Can I at least be "The Amazing Kendra" instead of Kreskin?

As another one of Dale's e-mail friends wrote, "word travels fast". Apparently
so, since from your e-mail that I received today you already know that I got an
e-mail from him yesterday. He was concerned about those that were after him
finding out that he's been in contact, so please let it be known in your
circles that he's concerned about his privacy and safety.

I appreciate your research on ego states, and there may be something to that in
Dale's case. I've never believed that he had full-blown MPD, but if he had
preexisting ego states, he might have been more prone to dissociation in times
of great stress.

I've agreed to his request for hypnosis because I think it will help him cope
with some of his grief and loss feelings, but I don't believe it will allow him
to remember everything as he thinks. I keep telling him this, but it doesn't
seem to be sinking in. I'll try to explore the ego states possibility when we
do the hypnosis session.

You asked for a copy of Dale's e-mail to me from yesterday. I'm not sure how
it will help you, but here it is:
Quote:
Michelle,
I'm sorry for not being in touch earlier, especially after what happened at my
home last week. I'm just not sure who to trust anymore, so I've been staying
out of sight as much as possible for days now and haven't contacted anyone. But
I know I can't do this alone and I feel that there are at least a few people
who I'm sure I can trust. You are one of them. Sam Greene and Wes Keeler from
Aglaura are a couple more. So I've decided to get in touch with them and you
and a few of the people who have recently been trying to help me and let you
know that I'm OK. Please be careful though, who you share this information
with, as I'm now certain that there are a few different groups of people
looking for me.
I have another favor to ask of you. I realize I'm in no position to ask you for
anything, especially since you are convinced that I have been deliberately
deceiving you in some way. But I promise, somehow, to prove that you are wrong
about me and I think this may help. I know you weren't really thrilled with
this idea when we've discussed it in the past but I'm certain that what I have
in mind could help unlock what's hidden in my mind. I want you to hypnotize me.
Please don't reject me outright. Just consider it, that's all I can ask.
I promise to be in touch very soon.
Dale
-Michelle


Michelle Kendra, MD
Inpatient & Outpatient Psychiatry
Princeton, NJ Headquarters
Klepsydra Mental Health Facility Network[/b]

_________________
That sounds like something HITLER would say!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:51 pm
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Barbarellany
Decorated


Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 245

And another. At least we know that Sarah did the tree on the Klep site. I only asked for similarities as dead eyes, amusement parks, etc. not diagnosis. I will try again.

Quote:

Dear Barbara,

I received an e-mail from Dale yesterday, so we can call breathe a sigh
of
relief. I did send him a response, so hopefully he will see it soon.

Unfortunately, I don't know NJ zip codes, other than the ones I use all
the
time. I don't know what to make of your owl-coin, other than maybe a
relative
or friend had sent a present to Meaghan before the accident, and it
didn't
arrive until after.

Dale didn't mention any specific cult activity while he was an
inpatient, but
if he was truly involved in something like that, maybe he wouldn't
mention it.
I understand that you don't believe he is the joiner-type, but people
have
surprised me in the past, and I'm sure they will in the future as well.
What
is this third group that you mention? Just how many groups are after
this
man? And why?

I looked into Sarah Wyatt's case, and apparently there is a picture of
hers
that is on the main Klepsydra page. Unfortunately, due to
confidentiality
concerns, I can't say anything more than that.

-Michelle


PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:13 pm
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Spuds
Veteran

Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 79
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa

In case...

In the event that you haven't seen my thread on hypnosis, you can check it out here:

http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=994

The "news travels fast" from the friend she spoke of is me. I've offered to consult on the hypnosis.
_________________
Spuds

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:25 pm
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elderofzion
Boot

Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 20
Location: Massachusetts

Dale's Been Hyp-Mo-Tized

NO details yet -- just this brief note from Dr. K today:

Dear Damon,

I did see Dale this weekend, and I did have a hypnosis session with him. There was certainly a lot of material, and I'm still trying to figure out exactly what is going on with him. I've given the tape to the Klepsydra transcription staff, so hopefully I'll have something to go over soon. I really prefer a hard copy where I can make notes and easily review things.

You're not the first person who has mentioned these "guides"; I think that's the third group that's after Dale. Or maybe just watching him. Whether it's benevolent or not, I have no idea.

I'll be in touch when I have more of a handle on what came out in the hypnosis session.

-Michelle
_________________
Elder

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:29 pm
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Barbarellany
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Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 245

Ok, she is referring to my email, 3 groups with last one seemingly benevolent. I didn't name the guides by name though. I hope to get some email from her soon and some real answers.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:54 pm
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Spuds
Veteran

Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 79
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa

E-mail from Dr. Kendra....

I got this e-mail from Dr. Kendra today:

The hypnosis session with Dale Sprague was interesting, to say the least. The tape is currently being transcribed. When I get it back, I'd like to send you an excerpt or two of some particularly interesting bits. I need to get it converted to a form that I can send to you electronically, so it may be a few days before I get everything in order.

Thank you again for your offer of assistance.

-Michelle Kendra
_________________
Spuds

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:41 pm
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Valas
Unfettered

Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 326

Quoting Natalia Marcife:

>
> Dear Dr. Kendra,
>
> You do not know me, so I can understand any reticence on your part to
> believe what will follow.
>
> You requested that we keep you informed on any news from our missing friend,
>
> and I am complying with that desire.
>
> As you learned from your own e-mail contact with him, he's alive and safe.
> Though for how long remains to be seen. We have a reasonable grasp on where
>
> he has been, and where he will be going. But it's not information which
> should be shared by way of e-mail.
>
> Damon will be able to tell you more about this, so calling him again would
> be a prudent move. He was rather disappointed that you had not left him a
> return number. (Do not use the phone at the hospital however, use the one in
>
> your own home. Just as an added precaution. Remember, just because we are
> paranoid, that does not mean that there is no one out to get our friend.)
>
> We've had additional confirmation on the identity of the loan sharks,
> measures have been taken to get them to back off, how successful this will
> be, remains to be seen. (You might wish to curtail your contacts with Mr.
> Abbot until further notice, he has ties to them. It might be purely
> accidental, or it might be an indication of something a tad more malevolent.
>
> Unknown at present, we will keep you informed of any new occurrences
> there.)
>
> Pen ultimately, regarding the mysterious men, with shall we say..
> out-of-the-ordinary eyes. We believe them to be some sort of cult, judging
> by some of the research we've done (far from conclusive however), our
> friend, may have accidentally attracted their attention with his research
> into this wish character. His research seems to have clashed with their
> religious convictions. The particulars of which are still rather unclear.
> (It's not exactly easy, investigating and studying such a closed off group,
>
> yet at the same time avoiding drawing attention to ourselves.)
>
> Which brings us to my last point. Be careful, Dale has expressed a fear that
>
> those few whom he trusts, of whom you are one, may be in grave danger. At
> the very least, the danger comes from the loan sharks, but they are by no
> means the greater threat. We've managed to establish that the loan sharks
> and the cult have come to blows, just prior to Dale's house being torched.
> One of the money men, isn't exactly known for his mental capabilities. He
> responded with bluster about how they did not fear them. I doubt that I have
>
> to tell you about, how those in a weak position will try to make themselves
>
> look stronger than they actually are. If the Cult is capable of putting the
>
> fear of God (in a manner of speaking of course) into hardened criminals,
> with rap sheets bearing a closer resemblance to War&Peace in their
> thickness, then we definitely need to be cautious.
>
> In short, be careful out there..
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Natalia Marcife
>

Code:

Dear Ms. Marcife,

I appreciate your concern, but I do not believe I need to be as worried about
my own safety as you seem to think.  However, by that same token, I hesitate to
leave my home telephone number with someone I've never met.

Who exactly are the loan sharks?  If you know who they are, shouldn't you go to
the police if you are truly concerned with Dale's safety?  I'm also curious
about the cult figures, but so far I've had very little concrete information
about them, besides the "dead eyes" description and the fact that at least one
of them had an odd tattoo.  If you can provide something more tangible, I would
appreciate it.

As to Bruce Abbott, Dale is mad at him, and understandably so.  I do not
believe that his intentions are anything but above-board.  He is one of the few
people that Dale should be turning to right now, and is avoiding,
unfortunately.  Dale has not mentioned his name specifically as somebody he
wants me to communicate with regarding his case, so I will respect his wishes
as best I can.

-Michelle Kendra


Michelle Kendra, MD
Inpatient & Outpatient Psychiatry
Princeton, NJ Headquarters
Klepsydra Mental Health Facility Network


PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 12:01 am
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Valas
Unfettered

Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 326

Quoting Natalia Marcife:

>
>
> Dear Dr. Kendra,
>
> You may change your mind once you learn the identity of the loan sharks.
> They, unfortunately, have a significant presence in the Tri-State area.
>
> Our mutual friend was foolish enough to lend money from the Marzano Family.
>
> Emphasis on the word Family, contrary to the image they're trying to
> portray, they're not merely an Italian family making use of the Mafia
> imagery as a theme for one of their businesses, the restaurant known as
> Empty Threats. (They have a web site, please note which company is
> responsible for it.)
>
> Another company of theirs is the Sons of Dom Construction company. (Again,
> they do have a web site, again check the design company)
> I'm not sure how familiar you are with the initial police report of the
> accident, in which our mutual friend's family was killed. But witnesses
> reported the presence of a third vehicle, a construction vehicle to be
> exact. Said witnesses have since disappeared. Additionally, if all has gone
>
> according to plan, you were sent part of the journal of our mutual friend,
> by one of the others. He received threats aimed towards his family on Feb.
> 1st. He was supposed to pay up in two weeks. The "accident" took place on
> Feb. 14th.
>
> Why not go to the police with this information?? Because a) we do not
> exactly know how far the pockets of the loan sharks reach, if you catch my
> meaning, b) it would interfere with a Federal investigation taking place.
>
> The cultists.. A rather perplexing group to say the least. Conflicting
> eye-witness reports. No one has described them the same way to us, the only
>
> "solid" piece of information that each person mentions is the tattoo and
> their eyes. We suspect that they may be using some form of hypnosis or
> mesmerism to confuse the perceptions of the people they question.
>
> Personality wise, there is again a general consensus: abrasive, arrogant,
> impatient. Possibly border-line sociopath. They also seem fixated on certain
>
> items, and would like very much to get their hands on them. You would need
> to contact the proprietor of the EOTW store in Aglaura for more information
>
> regarding this behavior, he has experienced it first hand.
>
> We are not sure, but it could be that our mutual friend is caught in some
> form of power struggle within the Cult. There are the dead-eyes who wish to
>
> keep their "knowledge" for themselves and then there is another group, we've
>
> tentatively called the Guides, who seem to wish to have the knowledge spread
>
> and learned by all those who are worthy.
>
> What this knowledge is, we do not know yet. Before you get the wrong idea,
> Dale is not a member of this cult, but he seems to be one of the people
> deemed worthy by the guides, which automatically makes him an enemy to the
> dead-eyes. (Comparatively this whole power struggle is not that dissimilar
> to the one which occurred in early Christianity between the followers of
> James and the followers of Paul. One group wished to keep the knowledge for
>
> a select few, the others wanted outsiders to share in it.)
>
> I hope that this answers some of your questions, and I must say that I am
> relieved that you managed to meet with our mutual friend. We anticipated
> that his meeting with you would be later, but it matters not. Keep the
> records of what he told you, while under hypnosis safe.
>
> It may prove to be a life-saver along the road.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Natalia Marcife
>

Code:

Dear Ms. Marcife,

I could not find anything about a "Sons of Dom" construction company.  When I
did a search, I only found links to Dom Delouise's family and one about a
monastery.  As to the restaurant site you mentioned, the fact that Bruce
Abbott's web design company designed a website shouldn't come as a big
surprise.  It appears as though you are making the same mistake that Dale is,
namely trying to blame Bruce Abbott for his problems. 

Nobody has sent me anything about threats to Dale's family; I only have Dale's
word on that. 

How is the investigation of the accident on 2/14 or Dale's current problems a
federal crime?  No state lines were crossed.  I fully admit that law is not my
area of expertise, but I don't follow your logic here.

Your description of the cultists leaves me with more questions than answers. 
Your suggestion that they are somehow using hypnosis while questioning
townspeople isn't logical; hypnosis doesn't work like that.  Your theory is
certainly interesting, but I must admit it seems far-fetched.  However, it's as
good as any explanation about these groups that I can come up with at this
point.

-Michelle Kendra


Michelle Kendra, MD
Inpatient & Outpatient Psychiatry
Princeton, NJ Headquarters
Klepsydra Mental Health Facility Network


Will post response here, once an answer from her is received.
For those curious to read it. Check CD.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 12:02 am
Last edited by Valas on Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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