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Immersive Reality Games
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NashCarey
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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Location: Nierstein, Germany

 		Immersive Reality Games
During AWARE alot of discussion (see link) occurred. People tried to define exactly what it was. I finally concede AWARE was NOT an ARG. Though as a creator of that newly designed sub-genre I feel I have the right to name it. I call it an Immersive Reality Game.

Here are the subtle differences...

An ARG is watching a story unfold through interactions and research. No matter what you do "in-game" the story will keep moving and you are a spectator. Like VPISteve says "The Story is like a train on rails."

An IRG is experiencing a story unfold through interactions and research. The player may push a story to move a certain way. This can occur a variety of ways. Either by not solving a puzzle in time, or by just persuading a character to take a certain action.

What AWARE was NOT is a Role-Playing Game. The game did NOT force you to be anyone other than yourself. Of course, some people decided to adopt a persona and that is fine as well. The in-game characters reacted to anyone whether or not they felt the need of a different identity or not.

*edit spelling

[EDIT: Moved to Meta forum -vpi]
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:23 pm
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vpisteve
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Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

 		Re: Immersive Reality Games
NashCarey wrote:

An ARG is watching a story unfold through interactions and research. No matter what you do "in-game" the story will keep moving and you are a spectator. Like VPISteve says "The Story is like a train on rails."

An IRG is experiencing a story unfold through interactions and research. The player may push a story to move a certain way. This can occur a variety of ways. Either by not solving a puzzle in time, or by just persuading a character to take a certain action.


Heh, sorry Nash. Gotta correct you on some stuff here. Not to get into a big hairy discussion, but your whole premise about what constitutes an ARG is just plain wrong, sorry. Your first paragraph there isn't correct, and your second paragraph, um, really describes ARG. A little look into the history of things before you came along might have helped you avoid making this innacurate assumption. Wink

The fact that the players can have either a real influence or the illisuion of influence on the story is an absolutely fundamental part of what makes an ARG. The games are in realtime, and PMs can and do respond to players' actions, mostly en masse, but sometimes on an individual basis (I'll leave the discussion about how this effects the possibility of a well crafted story for another time). Just a couple cases in point off the very top of my head:

The Beast: Players interacted with Mike Royal on the phone and had to convince him to take action in order to save another game character. Plus, the entire ending of the game was determined by an in-game vote.

ILoveBees: The Sleeping Princess getting captured was in direct response to a player's actions on the phone with Melissa. Don't know how much more influential you can get than that. A definite case of the PMs 'throwing a switch' (see below).

Just About Every ARG Ever Made: Puzzles had to be solved (sometimes in a timely fashion) in order to progress the story or cause something to happen.

The way you describe ARGs above makes it seem like they're just some sort of interactive fiction where we're just basically spectators, which is really an amazing statement that couldn't be further from the truth. Plus, my comment about games being 'on rails' was really a generalization meant to diffuse a heated situation, not something to define the genre. OK, keeping the rails metaphor, the PMs have the freedom to throw a couple switches and change course at their discretion, so I'll stand by it (even though it wasn't me who originally said it). Smile

There's really no need to drop in and redefine things here, as these particular 'differences' you're asserting don't really exist.

You say potato, I say potahto. We're both slathering the same thing with sour cream and chives. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:56 pm
Last edited by vpisteve on Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
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 		Sometimes players write legal documents which bring down large, evil, mythical biomedical corporations!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:19 pm
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bill
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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krystyn wrote:
Sometimes players write legal documents which bring down large, evil, mythical biomedical corporations!


Sometimes they help the wrong person and the ending gets all fubared.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:26 pm
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NashCarey
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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Location: Nierstein, Germany

 		Ok, so are you then saying as far as you are concerned AWARE was an ARG Steve? I just remember many asserted that it wasn't. Either in chat or on the boards.

If it is, fine, but I think the two definitions ARE fine. Some ARG/IRG's are designed differently and have different type of ways of achieving goals.

Tablesaw wrote:
So, AWARE is getting into gear, and I'm confused. Furthermore, it looks like I'm not alone. So, I've been reading through the META discussions, trying to glean some guidance. I've not found much. I'm beginning to think that it's because we're no longer talking about the same thing. Previous discussions about codes of conduct and what is or is not acceptable have been dividing the ARG into players and PMs, people in front of the curtain and people behind the curtain. Looking at AWARE and attempting to divine its overall design, I believe that this mindset is no longer sufficient

In many other posts, Imbri has expressed a very accurate view of previous ARGs, if not all potential ARGs. I will use it as a base for my post, though I do not believe I am wholly representing Imbri's position, if at all. In an ARG, there is an alternate reality. Although interaction may occur, the alternate reality exists, for the most part, on its own. It moves along regardless of player intervention. The player base is encouraged not necessarily to change the alternate reality, but to explore and experience it.

One could say that there is a window between the players and the world. The window is generally created by a limited set of websites. To some other extent, it may be defined by specific interactions through e-mail, phone contact, or even a real-life meeting. But regardless of how "interactive" these events become, the player remains passive, experiencing and collecting information that is then disseminated to the rest of the player base. In some instances, players may have a chance to have a very limited effect. (In the example of Mike Royal in the Beast, had the opportunity to convince a character to save another character. But other than that, there was no influence.)

This window/veil/curtain was not permeable, unlike Alice's looking glass. There were specific instances of players being recruited onto "the other side" but they were rare and, as I understand, carefully regulated. The players were in front of the veil; the characters were behind the veil and visible; and the PMs were far behind the veil and (ideally) invisible.

But it seems that AWARE is not holding to this concept of the veil. By addressing players and their actions directly, as though they were specifically in and among and affecting the alternate reality, the game is essentially drawing them behind the veil. The game is treating players not as an anonymous amorphous group, but as individual characters. The players have been drawn into a space that did not previously exist in ARGs. They are not Behind The Scenes with the PMs, but neither are they on the mundane side of the curtain. They are in a character space; they are On The Stage.

The most important point I want to make is that there appears to be something philosophical different in the design of AWARE compared to previous ARGs. As a result, player expectations and mores will not necessarily be appropriate or advantageous.

In Cloudmakers, where many of the standards of conduct were established, it is important to not that the creation of a "collective detective" was encouraged by the game. The Beast did not distinguish between players, it was addressed to a general populace. With all participants being treated the same, it encouraged players to work together. As noted above, the story and the world would continue on regardless of the players, so why not work together? Why not share the login to the website you just discovered? Keeping that login information secret would not have any affect on the game, it would just prevent other players from fully experiencing the alternate reality.

On the other hand, AWARE has gone to great lengths to identify each character not only by general affiliation, but individually. Your actions as a player are tied to you. They are noted by the characters of the alternate world as specific to you. This encourages players not to share information, since that information can have a specific affect on the alternate world.

Let's say, for example, that I hack the account of one of the major players, we'll say Marcus. Now, I have access to all of Marcus' e-mails. If I'm not an Ideltech employee, I have access to the Ideltech boards. I also may have the ability to masquerade as Marcus to other characters. Or other players. The solution ot this puzzle is not merely a pathway into more of the world to explore, it is a tool to change that world.

As Ideltech says, "When information is power, wield the power."

I could share that information with my "team," giving it an edge. It could be used to switch affiliations. If I'm an Ideltech employee, and I discover secrets revealing that Ideltech is "not all it seems", I may try to convince others I am right. It may cause me to jump sides. It may put me in direct opposition with Marcus as each of us calls the other a liar.

The path of the game as I have seen it and the out-of-game discussions with PMs lead me to believe that this is the type of paradigm that AWARE is designed around. The player base is treated not as a faceless explorer but as a group of individual, competing characters.

Although I am convinced that the preceding interpretation is correct, I do not have any idea how to effect change. We will have to decide how we will adapt, as players, to a new type of ARG. It will mean, and has already led to, examining how we organize archived information. It will require different rules of etiquette regarding how much to talk about out-of-game.

Finally, I'll unload my own bias. The reason I've jumped back into ARGs is that AWARE's winnability fascinates me. And let me make it clear. I want to win. And I intend to win. I expect that, in this case, "winning" will mean skewing the story and the alternate reality to by favorable to me or my "team." Maybe it won't. I don't care. I want to be able to puzzle and hack and scam and do whatever is necessary to do whatever it is that winning means. And it is precisely because I want to do all of these things that I want to know what ettiquette and conventions we, as players, will recognize.


So ultimately their WAS a difference in the game. A sort of stranger level of immersion. But I agree, many ARG's do hold some of these same qualities. So for now I think IRG is a fine description. Tablesaw just said it better than I ever could.

Basically the difference I poorly explained in my first post is that you have consequences attached to your INDIVIDUAL actions. I wish Tablesaw could write all my posts.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:30 pm
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danielgary
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 15

 		steps on a ladder
VPIsteve,

I believe Nash's point here is that in AWARE, the ending was almost completely determined by the players' actions, while in ILB, or other traditional ARGs, that particular ending was probably set in stone ahead of time. ILB was too strictly guided for my tastes, and I quickly lost interest. Having missed AWARE, I cannot say what the pacing was like, but after talking with Nash some, I get the feeling it was much quicker moving and much more flexible when it came to the impact the players could actually have on the story.

[edit]
As for your example in The Beast, there were a few possible outcomes, completely predetermined. I would imagine that in Nash's case, the story could have had any ending imagined, so long as the players fairly pushed the story in that direction.
[/edit]

In conclusion, I believe it's a valid argument to distinguish between the two.

Daniel

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:32 pm
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jamesi
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia
krystyn wrote:
Sometimes players write legal documents which bring down large, evil, mythical biomedical corporations!


Sometimes players try to flirt harmlessly with in-game characters, thereby appearing creepy.

Also, sometimes players adopt in-game personas based on the uniqueness of their chat handle, but understand that the persona exists only inside the confines of the game and not within the collaborative community playing the game. And even then, the in-game personas do not impact directly on the plot/storylines of the game. Ergo, the in-game personas do not compromise a role in the game.

danielgary wrote:
I would imagine that in Nash's case, the story could have had any ending imagined, so long as the players fairly pushed the story in that direction.


Perhaps, then, there's a need to create a new term, ImprovisationalRG (ImRG?)... to be frank (and no, that's not my new in-game persona), many quality ARG games involve heavily-detailed, well-crafted stories, which is a huge draw for some gamers. An improvisational ending offers something different for the audience than an ending that, while influenced by the actions of the players, isn't radically different than one of the predetermined endgame scenarios. Was AWARE strictly off-the-rails, written completely on the go? And if it was, does that warrant a new definition of gaming?

I dunno... I don't think I have ever had any problem with the distinction of AWARE as a different form of ARG (and I did try to check all of my posts on the matter thorougly, so feel free to discredit me at will) and I agreed wholeheartedly with Tablesaw's post when it first came out... I'm not sure I see the need for further distinction between games like AWARE and games like I Love Bees... the wheel has already been invented, and it's a rather large wheel encompassing a number of different types of spokes...

Mind you, labels have always bugged me...

(And hey... just an idea... instead of posting a new term in the glossary, couldn't we have opened this up in a META discussion thread? This wasn't as much a 'definition of word/term' as much as it was an 'attempt to create a different label for an existing genre of gaming'. Only my opinion, though.)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:42 am
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bill
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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 		There are as many definitions of ARG as there are players and PMs. The entire genre is too young and too fluid to be pigeonholed by any single definition. I think mine changed just in the last week. Shocked

I've always maintained that ARGs encompass the 3 P's: Participation, Puzzles, and Plot. That leaves a lot of room for various games to fall under.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:55 am
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

 		I think that's why I mentioned the legal document (re: Lockjaw, in case you were wondering). It um, pretty much changed the ending. We let it - we let the players guide how that game came to a close, with some logic constraints and plot consistencies ...

It was an ARG, though, I am pretty sure. Wink

PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:34 am
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spaceboy
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Joined: 06 Aug 2004
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 		I know I'm probably going to make someone angry with this statement, but I don't really care. Wink
I don't really see a need to classify or label these games. The people who play them are mostly from the same community of people which is generally regarded as the ARG community. Labeling and classification normally only leads to one thing: conflict. I'm of the opinion that conflict really isn't necessary and that we should just all play and enjoy the games regardless of how much interaction or puzzle solving or improvisation is required. So, to conclude, I don't think that this term is necessary or valid.[/soapbox]
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:13 pm
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jamesi
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia
spaceboy wrote:
I'm of the opinion that conflict really isn't necessary and that we should just all play and enjoy the games regardless of how much interaction or puzzle solving or improvisation is required.


That sounds like a Christmas wish! Mind you, I'm half-in-the-bag on spiked hot chocolate.

Good idea, though.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:30 am
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StercusMaximus
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 		mmmm....spiked hot-chocolate...what do you spike it with? I've always prefered Buttershots...

SM
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:52 pm
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jamesi
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 		Banana liquer, and a dash of kahlua. I stole the recipe from a restaurant, I think they called it the Hot Chocolate Monkey.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:07 am
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jonathan
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Joined: 10 May 2004
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Quote:
An ARG is watching a story unfold through interactions and research. No matter what you do "in-game" the story will keep moving and you are a spectator. Like VPISteve says "The Story is like a train on rails."


I would have to disagree. Perhaps I'm not thinking straight, but if players never reached the target of 777 Axons in ILB, the story would not have advanced. "ARG'S" have came to a standstill in the past, because players could not solve a puzzle. The story will not keep moving. If I am interpreting what you said wrongly, please correct me.

VPISteve may have said "the story is like a train on rails" but I believe he made it quite clear what he thinks below, so why not save a lot of confusion and remove the quote? As far as I can see, it serves no purpose other than confusing the un-informed as to what VPISteve defines an ARG as- and since he has made that clear below why keep it there? Or at least clarify what he meant.


Quote:
"An IRG is experiencing a story unfold through interactions and research. The player may push a story to move a certain way."


I've had my fair share of interactions in previous ARG'S, and research :shudders: (24 digit number Sad ) In past ARG's, players have been able to push the story in a certain way- I would list my own examples but cant be arsed, and since there are already some above, I wont bother.

Quote:
"This can occur a variety of ways. Either by not solving a puzzle in time, or by just persuading a character to take a certain action.""


Again, examples above. Didn't take part in The Beast but I remember something about a phonecall and players persuading someone to do something that they otherwise wouldn't have done. Seems like "persuading a character to take a certain action" to me.

Are there any other factors involved when it comes to defining an IRG? Because it seems pretty ARG-ish from my perspective.

Finally, I have a question: Assuming by your definition that Aware I was not an ARG, I guess the same will apply for Aware II. Hence, would you say that when the players are playing the game they will be able to do whatever they want, or will they follow a pre-set path, with variations? (a la Deus Ex)

Rails are pre-set Wink Logically I would guess that the story will be like a train on rails, albeit with lots of twists, turns and stops. Mabye even a crash. Unless of course, the players will be able to actually push the story whatever way they want- which I doubt- since a player could, at least hypothetically, try and kill Marcus. or form a group that decides to go around flaming the forums, because it's "their way of playing it"

For an ARG to be good, it must have some sort of structure. Creating a game that allows players to set the story from beginning to end is asking for disaster.


And besides, I have enough acronyms to deal with- ARG, TINAG, OOG...etc



Please, Please don't add another one Crying or Very sad

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:24 am
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Caterpillar
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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Quote:
Let's say, for example, that I hack the account of one of the major players, we'll say Marcus. Now, I have access to all of Marcus' e-mails. If I'm not an Ideltech employee, I have access to the Ideltech boards. I also may have the ability to masquerade as Marcus to other characters. Or other players. The solution ot this puzzle is not merely a pathway into more of the world to explore, it is a tool to change that world.


It may give one the tools to change something, but I'm still of the opinion that one wouldn't be able to hack the email account unless the PM took into account and designed that likelihood (incorporating the possibility of change - or the illusion thereof - in the first place).

Now I've confused myself.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:18 pm
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