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[META] The envelope please
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Phaedra
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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thebruce wrote:
language tidbit for the day Wink


My word for the day is "beshrew." It has all sorts of interesting Coworker Annoyance Applications: "Well, beshrew me if it isn't Anne and Liz [from Estate Planning]! Who let you girls out of the vault?" Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:46 pm
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thebruce
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 		in that case, ...

beshrew: "invoke evil upon," "curse", "wish harm upon" me if this has not in fact been thread-jacked by Phaedra Razz

interesting word of the day... Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:53 pm
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Phaedra
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thebruce wrote:
in that case, ...

beshrew: "invoke evil upon," "curse", "wish harm upon" me if this has not in fact been thread-jacked by Phaedra Razz


My work here is done. <bow>
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:59 pm
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Cherry Cotton
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 		In defense of gkhrone's defense of "irony:" by letting the word deviate so far from it's original meaning, we have a word meaning both what it used to be and its exact opposite: resulting in a word made more or less useless. Try defining "irony" to a friend... ironic, isn't it?

Then again. I lost a fight once with my mom when she insisted that "good" could be used as an adverb, and lo and behold, Mirriam-Webster agreed with her... (ever since then I've quested to find this guy and eat his heart so that I can be bestowed with Ultimate Grammar Powers...)

(someone tells me that Mirriam-Webster is actually two different, dead people. This person is lying. Kill him.)



Oh, and here's what the Guardian says about irony. Much teh funny.

And we should not forget about what Red vs. Blue says about irony (spoilers through Season 2).

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Grif: So now we're forced to work together. How ironic.

Simmons: No, that's not ironic. Ironic would be if we had to work together to hurt each other.

Donut: No, ironic would be instead of that guy kidnapping Lopez, Lopez kidnapped him.

Sarge: I think it would be ironic if our guns didn't shoot bullets, but instead squirted a healing salve that cured all wounds.

Caboose: I think it would be ironic, if everyone was made of iron.

[Two hours later]

Church: Okay. We all agree, that while the current situation, is not totally ironic, the fact that we now have to work together, is odd in an unexpected way, that defies our normal circumstances. Is everybody happy with that...

Sarge: Yes.


And, to whoever nominated me... I love you. I don't deserve it. Please bake yourself a batch of Bee-Licious Chocolate Chip Cookies, put a note on them saying "With Love From Cherry Cotton," place them outside your door, forget about them, come back two hours later and enjoy. Please.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:20 am
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hmrpita
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Cherry Cotton wrote:
In defense of gkhrone's defense of "irony:" by letting the word deviate so far from it's original meaning, we have a word meaning both what it used to be and its exact opposite: resulting in a word made more or less useless. Try defining "irony" to a friend... ironic, isn't it?

Then again. I lost a fight once with my mom when she insisted that "good" could be used as an adverb, and lo and behold, Mirriam-Webster agreed with her... (ever since then I've quested to find this guy and eat his heart so that I can be bestowed with Ultimate Grammar Powers...)

(someone tells me that Mirriam-Webster is actually two different, dead people. This person is lying. Kill him.)
Oh, and here's what the Guardian says about irony. Much teh funny.

And we should not forget about what Red vs. Blue says about irony (spoilers through Season 2).

And, to whoever nominated me... I love you. I don't deserve it. Please bake yourself a batch of Bee-Licious Chocolate Chip Cookies, put a note on them saying "With Love From Cherry Cotton," place them outside your door, forget about them, come back two hours later and enjoy. Please.

*cough* Actually, it is Merriam-Webster. *cough* Razz

I laughed at the spoiler, but I wasn't able to get the Guardian link to open. Sad

I have numerous word usage pet peeves. Ironic is one. Evocative is another. That one particulary irks me. Evocative is an adjective meaning to (duh) evoke, yet it is so often used all by itself. "Evocative of what?" I proclaim to the empty room. Yet, I am sure its meaning has changed in many dictionaries now, due to incorrect usage, to perhaps...um, nostalgic, I suppose? I don't know, because if someone describes something as evocative, it could mean anything, since I can't read the person's mind and do not know what thought or emotion the person wants to convey. Perhaps it is obvious to everyone but me.
END of RANT

Cherry Cotton, do they HAVE to be Bee-licious Chocolate Chip Cookies? Wink Don't be silly, of course you deserve the nomination!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:31 am
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Cherry Cotton
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hmrpita wrote:
I laughed at the spoiler, but I wasn't able to get the Guardian link to open. Sad


Here is the Google cache. Does that work?

My brother is our house's grammar police (but I try my best to be the grammar undersecretary of nitpickery), and he has numerous word usage pet peeves... chief among them being cutesy amalgams of words. Like "guesstimate." Who needs to combine two words to make a word synonymous with its component parts? Sheesh.

(He also hates overpronunciation. He will remind you quite forcefully that "foyer" is not French, so you pronounce it "foy-er." However, I don't think I've ever needed to use the word "foyer" in anything but grammar discussions with him, so it's not a problem for me...)

Personally, my word usage pet peeve is the siz-ziz. You know what I'm talking about. Think of somebody whose name ends in S. Now, imagine something that belongs to him. What do you call that? My main man S's imaginary siz-ziz. Um, I mean, confusing. When I was a kid, I was sure that when people said "Jesus'," they were actually using the apostraphe to represent the almighty siz-ziz. Then, in fifth grade, I learned from my teacher (who had a tendancy to go on long, boring tangents that I loved and everybody else hated... What Made Cherry Different As A Child) that you only use a single apostraphe at the end if it were a plural, like "girls' basketball," but not for a singular name, like "James's pants." I was offended by, first of all, the notion that any word could ever have a "s's" in it (GROSS!), or that you would leave off the almighty siz-ziz for a pluralization (MEGA-GROSS!). And, given that I considered myself to be the smartest dumpling in the bushel (you can complain about my mixed metaphors later), I took it upon myself to correct everybody who defied Cherry Cotton's Offical School of Grammar (A. I am right. B. When you are right, I am not wrong. C. You are wrong.).

You see, my rules of grammar didn't require anything backing them up; it was good enough that I thought them that they were true. But, lo and behold, my world was SHATTERED when I found out...

There is no apostrophical siz-ziz!

P.annf! Frg tbr,w C ,ao ircbi yr ucq ydco naoy lapaipaldw xgy C ydrgidy cy ,rgne x. ,rpyd cy urp frg annyr ypf abe e.jre. cw ocbj. ydco co ab API xrape abe annw abe hgoy yr odr, frg yday mf xpryd.p co ogjd a xci ERPT yday dco jrmlgy.p pabermnf o,cyjd.o yr Ekrpat <DCN> C-M YFLCBIv Od..odv

Really! When you say something like "girls' basketball," you just say the "girls," not the "girls-ziz," or "girls-ziz done beez in the hizzy." No siz-ziz! I was shocked. Dumbfounded! Grammar as I knew it was coming apart at the seams.

This happened one cold night in eighth grade...

(meedlo meedlo meedlomeedlomeedlo)

As with many people in the tender age of twelve, I too lost my innocence after finding a book that my older brother left lying around. In it contained all the things I was not supposed to know as a child. My brother would read it constantly to feed his ever-growing need for stimulation. It was a book by William Safire. Go figure.

Anyway, William Safire's "Fumblerules" (highly, HIGHLY recommended, especially for non-grammar persons; nobody should be allowed to graduate high school without reading this quite short and quite amusing book) taught me all the things I wanted to know about the siz-ziz. (Wait a second. I'm not sure if "Fumblerules" addresses the siz-ziz... maybe it was a different book by him. Moving along...) Mainly, you don't sound it for plurals, and you do sound it for singulars.

Well, it would be difficult, but I would have to revise Cherry Cotton's I'm-Right School of Grammar to include this startling new apostrophical development. Now, I would have to start correcting people for writing "James'." I would have to find it in my heart to accept the presence of "s's" in the English language. (Actually, now I think it looks quite stylish, like dual-wielded cinnamon rolls.) At church, all the God-fearing Whos of Whoville would gather and sing, "We will meet at Jesusssss feet!" and it would tear away at my central grammar processing unit until I wanted to scream, "IT'S JESUS-SIZZZZ! YOU WILL GO TO HELL FOR YOUR HERESY!" before being dragged out the door by my parents. (And doesn't it just sound terrible? "We will meet at Jesusfeet." Sounds like the worst soda parlor ever.) I would have to make a silent hoo-rah for every writer who had the bravery to write the ever-unspoken "James's." I could once again be secure in my grammatical superiority, knowing that I was fighting the good fight for Mom, apple pie, and siz-ziz.

Until...

Just recently, as I played Halo 2, my brother told me that this actually is not the original way we said things. Originally, the hymn really did say "Jesus' feet," because the ancient Hebrews loved wacky soda parlors (look it up). People really made it for fifteen thousand years without ever having a siz-ziz. Civilizations rose and fall without the presence of a single "James's" or a "Another name that ends in S's." People actually did go to stores to buy Marcus' birthday present. Creeeepy.

But, my brother assured me, now, times are different, and the siz-ziz has emerged as the greatest artest of 1999. In the past few decades, the siz-ziz has defeated Communism, installed the Americans with Disabilities Act, made the Internet a household name, and, sadly, could not save the Sega Dreamcast. As he explained to me, "Really, have you ever heard anybody say, 'Bridget Jones Diary?'" Huh. I guess not. Weird. (And William Safire says it, so it must be true. I mean, if he's talking about GRAMMAR, and he says it, it must be true. Very important difference.)

So, my friends, worship the siz-ziz. Frolic in the chilly December snow and sing the praises of the siz-ziz that gave us such mouth-wateringly rich grammar. I, personally, will thank my lucky stars that I was not born in an age where we had to go without electricity, Pom Pom, or siz-ziz. I mean, really. How did we make it this far without (enough already, Cherry Cotton...)

(Oh, and my brother also tells me, according to the AP Stylebook it is CDs and not CD's. No apostrophe. That's my other pet peeve. And people who write "Poke'mon." Does it really take you that long to draw one acute stroke over the e? Oh, but what really drives me bananas is when schoolteachers say "pokey mon." I hate it when anybody says it, but especially when schoolteachers say it, because they should know. Hell, I knew how to pronounce the acute e when I was in sixth grade and Pokémon had just came out. Blah, blah, blah.)

(If you could put a poll in a reply, my poll would be: would it be more ironic if this post ended here, or kept going?)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:24 am
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johnny5
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 		Positronic Logic Pants

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:31 am
Last edited by johnny5 on Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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 		I just noshed on some munchage
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:58 am
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Phaedra
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Cherry Cotton wrote:
Personally, my word usage pet peeve is the siz-ziz. You know what I'm talking about. Think of somebody whose name ends in S. Now, imagine something that belongs to him. What do you call that? My main man S's imaginary siz-ziz. Um, I mean, confusing. When I was a kid, I was sure that when people said "Jesus'," they were actually using the apostraphe to represent the almighty siz-ziz. Then, in fifth grade, I learned from my teacher (who had a tendancy to go on long, boring tangents that I loved and everybody else hated... What Made Cherry Different As A Child) that you only use a single apostraphe at the end if it were a plural, like "girls' basketball," but not for a singular name, like "James's pants." I was offended by, first of all, the notion that any word could ever have a "s's" in it (GROSS!), or that you would leave off the almighty siz-ziz for a pluralization (MEGA-GROSS!). And, given that I considered myself to be the smartest dumpling in the bushel (you can complain about my mixed metaphors later), I took it upon myself to correct everybody who defied Cherry Cotton's Offical School of Grammar (A. I am right. B. When you are right, I am not wrong. C. You are wrong.).


[Linguistics]

Well, you will note that it is the "siz-ziz" and not the "ziz-ziz." Whether it's appropriate to add the additional syllable to indicate possession depends on whether the s at the end is voiced (i.e. whether it is pronounced as an /s/ or a /z/). These aren't hard and fast rules, since English is screwy, but in a name like Jesus the /s/ at the end is unvoiced. Therefore, one can add a voiced s (a /z/) to the end without it sounding funny since it's not actually a repeated sound. With James, on the other hand, the s at the end follows a voiced consonant and is therefore easier to pronounce voiced, so James is, in effect, pronounced "Jamez." Since, in general, when appending s, we voice it if it follows a voiced consonant (try saying "James's" with an s rather than a z sound -- it's awkward) we would have to repeat the /z/. So, instead we say "James'" without appending a final s verbally.

[/Linguistics]
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:50 am
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thebruce
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 		from what I can, to add even more fuel to the fire, in many places where possession is written (eg) James', most people still say 'James-ziz boots'... so it's not so much a matter of both writing and speaking as it is just about writing... I rarely hear anyone not add the -ziz for any possession these days... but the written, I'd agree with Phaedra, seems to be more a difference between the S or the Z end sound... Jesus' boots, James's boots, Jess's boots... actually, for me I think I tend to make the distinction between singular and plural... the Jones' home... but still say it Jones-ziz... the Jones' home, vs Jesus's home... the Ross' home... the Ross's home... Confused
bah, I hate the english language!... Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:36 pm
Last edited by thebruce on Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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krystyn
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thebruce wrote:
but the written, I'd agree with krystyn, seems to be more a difference between the S or the Z end sound...


Now I have to go back and read this thread, to make sure thebruce's telepathy is accurate or not. Wink

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:02 pm
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thebruce
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krystyn wrote:
Now I have to go back and read this thread, to make sure thebruce's telepathy is accurate or not. Wink


oh man, I am so out of it today... *sigh* (orig. post edited)
3 blunders and counting...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:04 pm
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Shad0
I Have No Life


Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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 		Re: sneaky cryptogram
Cherry Cotton wrote:
P.annf! Frg tbr,w C ,ao ircbi yr ucq ydco naoy lapaipaldw xgy C ydrgidy cy ,rgne x. ,rpyd cy urp frg annyr ypf abe e.jre. cw ocbj. ydco co ab API xrape abe annw abe hgoy yr odr, frg yday mf xpryd.p co ogjd a xci ERPT yday dco jrmlgy.p pabermnf o,cyjd.o yr Ekrpat <DCN> C-M YFLCBIv Od..odv

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
Really! You know, I was going to fix this last paragraph, but I thought it would be worth it for you all[ ]to try and decode i[t], since this is an ARG board and all, and just to show you that my brother is such a big DORK that his computer randomly switches to Dvorak WHILE I'M TYPING. Sheesh.

And by the way, some English teacher once told me that the word "Jesus" is an exception to the usual "siz-ziz" spelling rule: that is, although the proper possessive form of most words ending in S is, say, James's, the proper possessive form of Jesus is, in fact, Jesus', without the extra S after the apostrophe. No particular explanation, either; it's just one of those stupid exceptions you're supposed to memorize. Mad
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:14 pm
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johnny5
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 		For tonight's performance, I will attempt express my sentiments using only Internet hieroglyphs.

ahem..

Geek Geek Geek
Dunno Dunno Dunno
DunnoDunnoDunno
Dunno Dunno Dunno
WorshippyWorshippyWorshippyGeekGeekGeek

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:16 pm
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Phaedra
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johnny_Nitro wrote:
For tonight's performance, I will attempt express my sentiments using only Internet hieroglyphs.


<giggle> You flatterer, you.

Incidentally...actually, rather randomly...my word for today is "faff." It provides a genteel alternative to "farting around," as in, "Oh for heaven's sake, stop faffing about and get in the car!"

Isn't it delightful?

On the Coworker Annoyance Scale, I'd give it a 7. Not quite as much fun as "beshrew," but still up there.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:52 pm
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