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ARG Priorities
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Author Message
Omnie
Entrenched


Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 772

yanka wrote:
If the players were able to interact with those characters...the game no longer a Game, but some sort of a silly childish role-play.

I agree that there's a careful balancing act over a fine line going on here. Interaction with characters can be wonderfully exciting and memorable, but it also tends to strain my suspension of disbelief. Reading through a webpage, I can believe whatever I want about the identity of its author - the anonymity of the web makes this easy and natural. There's a whole lot less anonymity to be found in chats or over the phone. At that point, I start thinking about who I'm actually talking to, and it all teeters dangerously close to becoming a role-playing game where I'm consciously just humoring the "character." Whoosh goes the immersion, along with all traces of TINAG.

On the other hand, when done right, interaction can be amazing. It seems to work, for me at least, when it happens after the character has been established in the player's mind as a real (er, in-game) person. That helps keep the player's mind from wandering in a behind-the-curtain direction. Also, the novelty of "oh my god I'm talking to this character!" is a wonderful thing, but it's hard to sustain that sense of wonder if it's used too often.

On...er, another hand (on a foot?), chatting isn't all there is to interactivity. Things like logging in to characters' e-mail accounts, sending e-mails (even if you just get a form response), dealing with real-life objects, etc. - these sorts of things immerse the player in the game universe and make ARGs different from, say, a novel that's being published on the internet. So, it's like an immersive novel. There's a difference between that and a game where the player is an integral participant in the game universe, which can be what too much character interaction leads to. I think I'm gonna stop following this line of thought before it sparks another ARG-definition debate. Heh, I hope it's not too late for that.

Soooo, to answer the original question: I'd say characters come first. No emotional investment in the characters = a game I don't care about. After that, the plot involving those characters is important. Then, puzzles, to me, are primarily the things that keep everyone busy while we're waiting for the plot to progress (I'm not a big puzzle-solver, for the most part). And then interaction. The webpage quality is important only in that it should be a realistic portrayal of what it's supposed to be (a company webpage should look fairly professional...things like that). As long as it doesn't detract from suspension of disbelief, it doesn't really matter to me.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:32 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

Thoughts about lurkers

Quote:
Players still being able to contribute from the shadows is an important element and one that's often neglected in favor of more community based designs.


This is an excellent point. And I think your example about the axons, none of which I successfully answered either, is a good one. (I managed to get on the crew by calling dana's voicemail and leaving a short message after Melissa took control of it.) In ilovebees, the "radio drama" was the story that I think anyone could follow and enjoy without writing a wiki, answering a phone or posting to the board. Still, it must be challenging to design a game that all levels of players can not only follow but also contribute to if they so choose.

I have lurked in games just to see what is happening, but it can be frustrating because of the amount of time it takes to get up to speed with the story. That is one reason why I think short narrative summaries, like the one Dana posted to her blog, are useful tools. For a lurker, a simple summary is often more helpful than the more comprehensive guide.

As for interaction with characters, I suppose it depends on the story. The main point of interaction, I think, is to give the players a way to help create (or drive) the story. So I would agree with Yanka that actually interacting with the character isn't essential.

But at the same time, the participatory, creative, mystery-solving aspect of the story is what makes an ARG different from passively watching a ballet on the stage in front of you. That story will happen pretty much in the same way night after night and differs only in the interpretation and skill (or artistry) of the artists involved. What the audience does has no effect on a passive entertainment. To me, the ability to be part of telling the story, even if it is just answering a phone to unlock a wave which then has to be assembled in proper order with other waves, is much different than just putting on a CD or DVD or listening to the radio.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:40 am
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Alzheimers
Unfettered

Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 339

Player interaction, love it or hate it, is very much a part of the "soul" of the ARG. I think that part of the magic of the genre is the ability of the players to have an actual difference in the outcome of in-game events. That being said, I think that the level of effect that more "hands-on" players have on the game needs to be balanced against a few other factors, such as the needs of the less vocal players, the designer's vision, and the fundamentals of good storytelling.

For example, if the games becomes more about the actions of the players then those of the characters, you're not so much telling a story as providing a forum for others to tell their own story. If the focus of the game becomes sidetracked on insignificant details, then the vision and direction of the game can become lost in a sea of red herrings and dead ends.

As a PM, you need to let players become involved in your Alternate Reality. Part of this implies that you need to forget about the 4th wall and let players come up on the stage and interact with the characters and the environment. At the same time, you need to remember that the stage and those characters are there to share a story with the players, and it's the responsibility of the PMs to make sure that their world and those characters (with the help of the players) fulfill the purpose of their creation.

All the players, interactive or passive, share in the ultimate decision on how successful a game is. Without a guiding vision to lead them through the events of the game, an ARG can become nothing more than a glorified partyline. It's up to the PM to decide where that line is, but it's up to the players to step up to it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:54 am
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Ozy_y2k
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 460
Location: Carmel, Indiana

Omnie wrote:
Soooo, to answer the original question: I'd say characters come first. No emotional investment in the characters = a game I don't care about.


A sort of interesting corollary to this, which I've both experienced AND observed on a number of occasions but have thus far been mostly unable to explain, is the fact that, for the vast majority of really passionate ARGers (e.g., non-lurkers and non-puzzlers, who nonetheless love to post long deconstructive descriptions and character interactions on the forums), the first ARG you really experience is always gonna be It, as far as emotional investment in the characters goes.

I mean, in my case it was Lockjaw -- I lurked and commented, a LOT, during the Beast, on more sort of abstract matters, but never felt, I dunno, PART of the character/player dynamic and community until Lockjaw, which was my First real full-on ARG experience. And for me, as for many others, that initial rush can never be 100% duplicated in subsequent games.

Unlike others, I refuse to blame it on bad writing or non-compelling characters, since I think the writing and characterization in games ranging from CTW through ILB have been as strong, if not more so, than anything I experienced in Lockjaw. But I think that if you are primarily a character-driven ARGer, there's always gonna be that ONE game that you always look fondly back on and say "yep, that was it".

(I'm obviously not counting my PM-related identification with the characters in Metacortechs, since that is a whole different SORT of dynamic, when you're creating and voicing the characters and providing, rather than discovering, their backstory.)

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:19 pm
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catherwood
I Have 100 Cats and Smell of Wee

Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 4109
Location: Silicon Valley, CA

yanka wrote:
I have to say,...

ditto.

to all of it.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:54 pm
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

Ozy_y2k wrote:

for the vast majority of really passionate ARGers (e.g., non-lurkers and non-puzzlers, who nonetheless love to post long deconstructive descriptions and character interactions on the forums), the first ARG you really experience is always gonna be It, as far as emotional investment in the characters goes.


Wow. I never realized it, but that's true for me too. CTW was my first full on ARG and that's still what I use as a gauge to compare others to. There have been ARGs since then that have come close for me, but not "It" in terms of emotional investment. I wonder why that is?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:09 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously

Varin wrote:
Ozy_y2k wrote:

for the vast majority of really passionate ARGers (e.g., non-lurkers and non-puzzlers, who nonetheless love to post long deconstructive descriptions and character interactions on the forums), the first ARG you really experience is always gonna be It, as far as emotional investment in the characters goes.


Wow. I never realized it, but that's true for me too. CTW was my first full on ARG and that's still what I use as a gauge to compare others to. There have been ARGs since then that have come close for me, but not "It" in terms of emotional investment. I wonder why that is?


I think because some of the emotional investment is the surprise and excitement of discovering the genre for the first time -- it was so NEAT that Melissa CALLED ME! -- and that first-time excitement (which makes all the emotions involved in playing the game seem more intense) can't be there when it's no longer the first time.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:37 pm
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Alzheimers
Unfettered

Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 339

Varin wrote:
Wow. I never realized it, but that's true for me too. CTW was my first full on ARG and that's still what I use as a gauge to compare others to. There have been ARGs since then that have come close for me, but not "It" in terms of emotional investment. I wonder why that is?


I think it's akin to the first time you fall in love. You may have dated/played other people/Games before, but once you find that special one it's magic. There's a sense that everything is new again. All your old preconceptions are wiped away, and from that moment on you will always compare any future experiences with those you share with that first person/game to truly capture your heart.

//hopeless romantic
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:46 pm
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Ozy_y2k
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 460
Location: Carmel, Indiana

Well and then to continue the thread of this observation, I've always noticed that lots of people who throw themselves into that First ARG whole-hog DO tend to stay around in Unfiction and in the larger ARG community and contribute and so on, but from that point on it's more about continuing to cement their ties to the Community, rather than because of any one particular Game. In other words, I see lots of people either continue to wistfully, nostalgically haunt the forum for their favorite game long past the point when the game itself has long since ended, or, alternatively, they sort of drift into the more META-oriented forums and their enthusiasm for the genre becomes more intellectualized, less about that pure visceral game-thrill.

While I think that is, to some degree, a uniform characteristic of all great shared-interest communities -- come for the Game, but stay for the People! -- it makes me believe that, at least in the aggregate, NONE of the features that we've all been attempting to define as a "priority" in terms of ARG design are really all that predominant. I think that people tend to get hooked on one element of a PARTICULAR game that really tickles their fancy, whether it be the thrill of cracking a bitch of a puzzle or that 'OMFG (character name) just talked to MEEEEEEE!!!" squeal of delight that Phae and Alzheimers were refering to, but then something more abstract, and less game-specific, and less describable, sort of takes over.

Its as if the Games are gateway drugs, just a little taste of the sweet sweet crack before the pusher moves you up into the harder stuff.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:20 pm
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Alzheimers
Unfettered

Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 339

I loved it so much, I wrote my own.

Really, is there any more a testimonial needs?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:24 pm
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

Alzheimers wrote:
I loved it so much, I wrote my own.

Really, is there any more a testimonial needs?


Is this akin to "I'm not just the president, but a client as well"? (I'm not just a devious genius Puppetmaster, but I'm a player as well.)

Sy Sperling, eat your hairy heart out.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:01 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

ozzie

ozzie wrote:
Quote:
I think that people tend to get hooked on one element


I confess. It was your avatar, Ozzie, that hooked me. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:10 pm
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Ozy_y2k
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 460
Location: Carmel, Indiana

Hahahahahaha, dammit, I swear I do NOT ALWAYS LOOK THAT DORKY IN REAL LIFE.

Usually. Laughing

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:14 pm
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

Re: ARG Priorities

Crowfoot wrote:
I'm toying with the idea of creating a new ARG, and I already have a set of good ideas. However, there are many elements to the game and I was wondering what people find the most important when they're making/playing an ARG.

Is it the puzzles?
Is it the plot-line?
Is it the interactivity?
Is it the character depth?
Is it the flashiness of the web-sites?

Please tell me what you think, it would help me greatly.



Its a Story that hangs together well and everything fits reasonably well together. Puzzles are good, but only if there is a real reason for them.

I live for character interaction (but know there are those who do not). Character depth is only imporatnat if you have a lot of interaction going on with the character, or are basing the storyline around the character.


Flashy web sites are a hit or miss proposition. On the older slower systems on low band dialup (like mine, I am such a cheapskate) having a graphics intense site that takes more than a couple of minutes to load can become more of a distraction for me if "every" site in the game is that way. Sites should also match as much as possible to the purpose: Corporate web sites should be flashier/more professional looking than personal pages...

But what every game needs, is a really good hook to draw one's attention...
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Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:20 pm
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Duckie
Unfettered


Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 401
Location: Drifter

Re: ARG Priorities

Crowfoot wrote:
I'm toying with the idea of creating a new ARG, and I already have a set of good ideas. However, there are many elements to the game and I was wondering what people find the most important when they're making/playing an ARG.

Is it the puzzles?
Is it the plot-line?
Is it the interactivity?
Is it the character depth?
Is it the flashiness of the web-sites?

Please tell me what you think, it would help me greatly.


I think the best thing that gets people's attention is NEW stuff, regardless of whether you innovate puzzles, or come up with unheard of plot-lines, or find a new way to interact: face it, being new is SOO much more likely to impress people than copying all the great elements of ARGs you liked.

As far as my ARG went, I haven't been involved in ARGs for too long, but I can't really think of many ARGs that exist outside of Sci-fi or Fantasy genres.
I tried to go for murder mystery...
It didn't get a whole lot of people, because:
puzzles sucked (I think they are the single most important factor in drawing an audience, other than advertizing).

But I tried something new, and I *think* it was recieved pretty well.... though one of the reasons I ended it was due to pretty rude people (yeah, I know, you always get a few. shut up.)

Anyway, jsut wastin time here.
Sarah

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:26 pm
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