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 Forum index » Diversions » Console/Video Game Discussion
[HALO2] - Legislation on sales of video games to minors GDC
Moderators: krystyn
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Clayfoot
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Anton P. Nym wrote:
I'm on page 5 of the law article, and the phrase that keeps running through my head is "post hoc, ergo propter hoc".

Does this ever get addressed, or would I be better off investing my time elsewhere?
Read on. Two reasons:
The causal/correlational dilemma really is handled well.
The causal relationship is only one of three justifications for banning violent video games, and the paper argues that any one of the three alone would be sufficient for use in new legislation.

I'm not done yet either, but it does seem to be worth finishing.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:03 pm
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SuperJerms
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 		Regardless of a casual tie between violence and video games (and not that I don't think that's an important discussion to have), is anyone really against the ban on sales to minors?

I mean, honestly, what do we have to lose by enforcing the ESRB? Off the top of my head, a decrease in the amount of children shouting "I'm Rick James, *itch!" and "You got owned, <racial slur>!"

I'm failing to see the negative impact of making it manditory for parents to take responsibility over what their children consume by forcing them to buy the more adult material.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:08 pm
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Clayfoot
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SuperJerms wrote:
is anyone really against the ban on sales to minors?
The ESA is against it, along with various civil liberty and libertarian organizations. Just how much do we want the government to run our lives, anyway?
Quote:
I mean, honestly, what do we have to lose by enforcing the ESRB?
Rose's fine article covers the problem with actually using the ESRB to impose restrictions. It boils down to government relying on a nongovernment organization to make the rules. The law would get thrown out on a court challege, unless the law is written in a way which does not directly depend on the ESRB ratings.
Quote:
I'm failing to see the negative impact of making it manditory for parents to take responsibility over what their children consume by forcing them to buy the more adult material.
Worst case, it's like the movie theaters: We all think we're keeping kids out of R-rated films, but half the kids who try can buy a ticket, anyway --not to mention the kids who buy a 'G' ticket and just walk in to the 'R' show. After we passed a video game law, we would all think that we had done the right thing, but kids would find ways to get and to play the games, anyway. It might even be easier, since parents think the kids can't, by law, buy the games.

I personally favor something like this biometric finger scanner that calculates your age:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000750031264/
If it was built into the XBox Live system, I could at least decline to play mature-rated games with kids, even if their parents let them online. I don't even need to know their exact age for this to work --just whether they are above or below the minimum age.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:15 pm
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DiscipleN2k
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Clayfoot wrote:
I personally favor something like this biometric finger scanner that calculates your age:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000750031264/


If they do manage to release them for around $25, I'll definitely be picking up a couple of them Smile

-Disciple
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:36 am
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SuperJerms
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Clayfoot wrote:
Worst case, it's like the movie theaters: We all think we're keeping kids out of R-rated films, but half the kids who try can buy a ticket, anyway --not to mention the kids who buy a 'G' ticket and just walk in to the 'R' show. After we passed a video game law, we would all think that we had done the right thing, but kids would find ways to get and to play the games, anyway. It might even be easier, since parents think the kids can't, by law, buy the games.


That's pretty much what I was thinking...and if we ended up with a system like what exists for movies, are any of you seeing that as worse off than the current situation (same system, without any manditory enforcement)? I personally would be glad to have the movie situation than the current one.

I don't think I'm too worried if legislators think we've solved this, but there are still ways for kids to get to the games. I don't really see a good way to legislate keeping minors away from the materials. In my personal opinion, it absolutely must be the parent's responsibility to keep kids from questionable content.

I guess that's what I'm getting at...it seems to me that there are three camps:
1) get rid of VG's since they're horrendous.
2) get a system in place to make it more difficult for minors to access mature titles without parental consent.
3) how dare you try to censor VG's in any way


Now, I fall into the second camp. My assumption is that none of us here fall into the first. So, does everyone here fall into the second? Or is it the third? Or some variation of the second?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:25 am
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weephun
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 		2nd!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:38 am
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ThaJinx
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weephun wrote:
2nd!
yeah, definitely perscribing to the 2nd camp.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:03 am
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krystynModerator
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 		Really, I'm probably 3, but because I live in a world with many other people who have different ideas on how they'd like things to go, I am OK with 2, I suppose.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:07 am
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ThaJinx
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krystyn wrote:
Really, I'm probably 3, but because I live in a world with many other people who have different ideas on how they'd like things to go, I am OK with 2, I suppose.
Well the thing with a system like 2, where there's a rating system in place to keep minors from getting mature games, is that it's not an infringement on subject matter in a game. It's really not a censorship of content so much as it is censorship from a demograph.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:12 am
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krystynModerator
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 		Yeah, I had issues with the usage of 'censor,' mos def.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:16 am
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ThaJinx
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krystyn wrote:
Yeah, I had issues with the usage of 'censor,' mos def.
Aye, same here. Loathe it. So if the age system only kept certain age levels from getting mature games without censoring the content said games, I'm all for it.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:19 am
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Phaedra
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ThaJinx wrote:
krystyn wrote:
Yeah, I had issues with the usage of 'censor,' mos def.
Aye, same here. Loathe it. So if the age system only kept certain age levels from getting mature games without censoring the content said games, I'm all for it.


Yeah. I'd prefer that it be left up to the parents -- that there be a specific rating system as far as how much violence, how realistic the violence, how much sex, how much objectionable language, and how possibly objectionable the subject matter the game contains is. Let them be informed, and decide what their kids should and shouldn't be playing.

However, unfortunately not all parents take an active role in monitoring what their kids are doing/playing, so age restrictions might be necessary. I don't know -- my parents never restricted what I could buy/watch/read, so I tend to feel like it's probably unnecessary, but then again, I didn't watch an R-rated movie until I was a sophomore in high school, because I had no interest in doing so, so it was mostly a moot question for them.

If the parents feel that their kid is mature enough to handle it, they can always buy the game for them.

It's all well and good for the government, or the industry, to tell parents what they feel their kids should be able to play, but I think telling them what their kids can play, solely based on age, is too much interference. There's a wide spectrum of maturity levels in any group of kids at any age.

On the other hand, there are a lot of parents that have no clue what their kids are doing half the time.

So, I guess that puts me squarely in group 2.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:22 pm
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INCyr
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Phaedra wrote:
It's all well and good for the government, or the industry, to tell parents what they feel their kids should be able to play, but I think telling them what their kids can play, solely based on age, is too much interference. There's a wide spectrum of maturity levels in any group of kids at any age.


There's a difference between telling them what their kids can play, and what their kids can purchase. If the parents see fit, they can buy their kids the most horrible, blood-filled, sex-filled gore fest ever made. However, all the gov't is trying to do is make sure the kids don't buy that on their own, w/o their parents consent.

As for me, I'm all for making parents take more responsibility for what their kids do. I guess that puts me in group 2.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:27 pm
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water10
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 		I'm on the 3rd camp. A rating system that parents could use to make their decision is alright though.

I think it's just almost impossible to keep kids from reaching these things if they really want to! Plus, with all these heated discussions about GTA and games like that, kids become even more interested on this! There are tons of articles all over the net about how these games should be censored and bla bla bla. Kids read that and then they want to see why such game is creating so many heated discussions!

Treat these games as just another one, and let the parents decide what they feel adequate for their kids, based on a rating system if they don't know anything about the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:31 pm
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DiscipleN2k
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 		I'm in group two for all of the reasons already listed above.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:38 pm
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