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Xbox 360
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Anton P. Nym
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 550
Location: London, Canada
water10 wrote:
That's not correct. HDTV is independent of the connection you use. HDTV standard only states a series of resolution with 1080i and 720p (480p is NOT HDTV) being the most common ones.

Oooh. Sorry. Should've been clearer. I wasn't saying that component feed didn't make it HDTV (of course not!) just that it's not digital and thus adds to the processing burden of the graphics chipset. Having a nice DVI/HDMI/Firewire connection out and placing that processing burden on the TV's own processor would lead to better graphics for the gaming console by freeing up computing power... it might make for fewer issues such as pop-in.

Quote:
Component can output 1080i and 720p without a problem! I have this on my cable box and a PCI HDTV tuner card.

I can vouch for that, don't worry. Smile I was home sick yesterday and watched LOTR on my new DVD player... the first time I'd seen it on my HDTV. (Now, where's that "jawdrop" emoticon?) My god, it's better than watching in the theatre. If somewhat smaller.

Quote:
I still use RGBHV, which is like VGA on my TV, even though I have a DVI connector on my TV. DVI cables are too expensive and I'm a cheap bastard! Cool

No, not cheap, just sensible. ($200CAD for a bluddy cable? [censored] that!)

-- Steve's been poking around in the digital satellite/cable world right now and finds it very, VERY expensive at the moment. *sigh*

edit: w00t! Post # 343! Hee hee hee, I am a genius...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:51 am
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water10
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Quote:
I can vouch for that, don't worry. I was home sick yesterday and watched LOTR on my new DVD player... the first time I'd seen it on my HDTV. (Now, where's that "jawdrop" emoticon?) My god, it's better than watching in the theatre. If somewhat smaller.

Is it one of those 1080i upscaling players with DVI/HDMI? I really wonder how this would compare to my HTPC (home theater PC). I pretty much upscale on my computer similar to what these players do, plus some more bells and whistles like noise reduction and other CPU intensive tasks. According to most forums I visit, a well designed HTPC should always give a better result, but I've never compared the results to the upscaling dvd players, only to my old progressive scan.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:25 pm
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Anton P. Nym
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water10 wrote:
Is it one of those 1080i upscaling players with DVI/HDMI?

No, it's a Pioneer multiformat DVD player with component out. I did have a look at ones with HDMI outputs, but the only model that was remotely in my price range had some dubious feedback on its reliability. Besides, there's no truely HD DVDs out there to watch yet. (I don't think there's a standard set yet, is there?)

The DVD player does a wonderful job of getting a beautiful 480p feed into my HD-ready TV which does a generally great job of upscaling the image into 1080i, though every now and then I catch some ghost lines in the background. But only if I'm looking for them.

Quote:
I really wonder how this would compare to my HTPC (home theater PC). I pretty much upscale on my computer similar to what these players do, plus some more bells and whistles like noise reduction and other CPU intensive tasks. According to most forums I visit, a well designed HTPC should always give a better result, but I've never compared the results to the upscaling dvd players, only to my old progressive scan.

Sounds interesting... but not practical alas for my budget, especially since I've already bought the TV and player.

-- Steve knows that there's never a perfect time to buy home electronics.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:22 pm
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water10
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Quote:
No, it's a Pioneer multiformat DVD player with component out.

I almost bought this player last year just for the SACD and DVD-Audio capability! Dark Side of The Moon in SACD Drool

Quote:
Besides, there's no truely HD DVDs out there to watch yet. (I don't think there's a standard set yet, is there?)

No standard set yet. But then there's this: http://www.wmvhd.com/
It's a M$ format for HD-DVD's. It's true HD, but it requires a (powerful) computer with WMP9 or 10. I didn't rent the movies yet, like Terminator 2: Extreme Edition, but I've seen the demo clips on my TV and it's AMAZING. Right now, there's no standalone dvd player that can read this. What's amazing about this, is that they can fit an entire HD movie in a regular DVD! The big (huge) downside to this format is that MS is not using dolby digital. It's 5.1 in a different format (wma 5.1), so you need 6 analog cables instead of 1 optical/coax cable ....

Quote:
Sounds interesting... but not practical alas for my budget, especially since I've already bought the TV and player.

I sold my dvd player to get into the whole HTPC thing. I really don't recommend HTPC to anyone! It's a hobby of mine. And it's sooo time consuming (unless you go with MS Windows Media Center Edition) that once in a while I keep wondering why I do it ... But results are impressive nonetheless.


Oh, and I guess reading Phaedra's posts is helping me on this art of thread jacking! Cool
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:53 pm
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Phaedra
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water10 wrote:
Oh, and I guess reading Phaedra's posts is helping me on this art of thread jacking! Cool


I have an apprentice. Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:59 pm
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Clayfoot
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
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water10 wrote:
Oh, and I guess reading Phaedra's posts is helping me on this art of thread jacking! Cool
That's not art...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:55 pm
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Anton P. Nym
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 550
Location: London, Canada
water10 wrote:
Quote:
No, it's a Pioneer multiformat DVD player with component out.

I almost bought this player last year just for the SACD and DVD-Audio capability! Dark Side of The Moon in SACD Drool

Agreed. Drool I have that CD (BTW, depending upon your setup, your PC rig may read and play in SACD... before I got the Pioneer, that's how I listened to DSotM) and it's glorious. I also have The Wall - Live in Berlin in SACD. To die for. (And I'm guessing you'd like it too, with your avatar and all. Smile C'mon, Tim Curry and Pink Floyd are meant for each other.)

I'm a tad disappointed with Elv1s on DVD-A... though that may be because I don't have analog 5.1 inputs on my tuner which is apparently what DVD-A is looking for. (Is that right? Or have I bungled a setting somewhere?)

Quote:
But then there's this: http://www.wmvhd.com/ It's a M$ format for HD-DVD's. [snip] The big (huge) downside to this format is that MS is not using dolby digital. It's 5.1 in a different format (wma 5.1), so you need 6 analog cables instead of 1 optical/coax cable ....

Oooh, that kills it for me. I'm turning into an audio-whore, looking at the backs of DVD cases and not buying movies just because they don't have DTS or Dolby 5.1 on the back.

Quote:
Oh, and I guess reading Phaedra's posts is helping me on this art of thread jacking! Cool

Now watch me artfully bring it back on topic by expressing my hope that XboxNext supports DVD-A and/or SACD when it comes out, in addition to HDMI/DVI. Ha!

-- Steve's quietly lobbying over on the Marty Army forum for a SACD-hybrid release of the Halo 2 OST: Volume 2. Ohhhhhhohohohoh....
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:23 pm
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Fenwicked
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Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 221
Location: Phoenix, AZ

 		Another tidbit on the Next X:
Quote:
Final Fantasy Maven Moves to Next Gen Xbox
Posted by Frankie at 2/24/2005 2:53 PM
Gaming legend Hironobu Sakaguchi (responsible for a few games you may have heard of called Final Fantasy) has announced that his Mistwalker Game Studio will create and develop role-playing games exclusively for what's finally been revealed as "the next-generation Xbox video game platform." Sounds awesome! Wonder if Bungie will make anything for it?

Mr. Sakaguchi's company has committed to creating two exclusive RPG titles to be published by Microsoft Game Studios.

This is music to my ears. Mr. Green
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:05 am
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water10
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Quote:
(BTW, depending upon your setup, your PC rig may read and play in SACD... before I got the Pioneer, that's how I listened to DSotM) and it's glorious. I also have The Wall - Live in Berlin in SACD. To die for. (And I'm guessing you'd like it too, with your avatar and all. C'mon, Tim Curry and Pink Floyd are meant for each other.)

I don't think it's possible to hear SACD on PC's at high resolution. I know Audigy 2 is DVD-Audio Capable, but not SACD. The thing is most SACD's have the regular CD in it, so you should be able to play it as a regular CD on any cd player, including a PC. I'll check it out if things have changed lately. Oh, and yeah, I'm a huge Floyd fan as you have guessed ...

Quote:
though that may be because I don't have analog 5.1 inputs on my tuner which is apparently what DVD-A is looking for. (Is that right? Or have I bungled a setting somewhere?)

You need the analog 5.1 cables for SACD and DVD-Audio high rez sound. Both formats can only be decoded by the player and not your receiver. It's one of those copy-protection features we just love! Rolling Eyes If you use optical or coax, you get regular CD for SACD and Dolby Digital for DVD-A. That might be the reason you're disappointed. Even though Dolby Digital is awesome for movies and games, it's not a good format for music, just because it's a lossy form of compression, while the real deal DVD-A is very high quality audio.

Quote:
Oooh, that kills it for me.

Well, having the 6 analog cables is not that bad. You'd need a similar setup I described above for SACD/DVD-A. The real bad part for me, is the way MS is trying to push this WMA 5.1 format on the market while there's already well accepted formats around, alas Dolby Digital and DTS. That really annoys me, these companies with their proprietary formats, like I mentioned on my lengthy discussion with INCyr (which we never settled that duel!)

Quote:
This is music to my ears.

In the end, it's always like this. Games will make/break the console. Though I never played a Final Fantasy game before, I can see why people are excited with this news. Yes, I'm living on Earth and not hiding in a cave ....
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:00 am
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Anton P. Nym
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 550
Location: London, Canada
water10 wrote:
I don't think it's possible to hear SACD on PC's at high resolution. I know Audigy 2 is DVD-Audio Capable, but not SACD. The thing is most SACD's have the regular CD in it, so you should be able to play it as a regular CD on any cd player, including a PC. I'll check it out if things have changed lately. Oh, and yeah, I'm a huge Floyd fan as you have guessed ...

But I note a *huge* improvement in audio quality between SACDs played on my computer (Audigy 2) and on the Xbox, despite the 'box being on a 300W 5.1 system and the computer on a 40W 4.1 system. The computer sounds more spacious and much crisper. The same holds for SACDs vs regular CDs on both my computer and the Pioneer multiformat, though my receiver only takes the signal through two channels that get expanded back into 5.1 courtesy of Pro-logic and DSP.

*double-take* Are you saying that it could get better? Ohhh..... Twisted Evil we wants it, yes we does, yesssss...

Quote:
Quote:
This is music to my ears.

In the end, it's always like this. Games will make/break the console. Though I never played a Final Fantasy game before, I can see why people are excited with this news.

I have a friend who's a die-hard FF fan, recently looking to get an Xbox to see the titles it supports. (Including Halo 2, now that he's seen and tried it.) I think he'll be glad to see a familiar name when he does.

-- Steve really shouldn't go looking for a new tuner; the current one is only a month old...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:29 am
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CoffeeJedi
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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 		wow, this thread is really fascinating to me
i've finally got my home-brew zero-budget quick-n-dirty HTPC up and running, and hope to slowly upgrade it to a more robust machine over time... the information here will prove invaluable

(i'd give you the specs, but you'd just laugh at me!)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:00 pm
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water10
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Quote:
But I note a *huge* improvement in audio quality between SACDs played on my computer

There's been a lot of discussion that these new high rez audio formats while good specs on paper, the big noticeable improvement on sound are there mostly because they are using better sources and remastering the material. So, maybe you're hearing improvements due to these, and not really to the SACD format. It's a guess here.

Quote:
*double-take* Are you saying that it could get better? Ohhh..... we wants it, yes we does, yesssss...

Yes, if you're not using 6 analog cables, you should be able to improve it. Just get some good quality RCA cables and that should do it. I used 2 sets of regular A/V (yeallow/white/red) cables from RatShack, one of those gold connectors. Plus, play with your speaker settings on your dvd. Try to set them to small and large. I've read something about your player and how it sets the crossover frequency differently for SACD's and DVD-A. Be careful with the "we wants it"!! It can always get better when you throw money on the equation, but I don't think you want to go that route! Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:01 pm
Last edited by water10 on Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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water10
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Quote:
i've finally got my home-brew zero-budget quick-n-dirty HTPC up and running, and hope to slowly upgrade it to a more robust machine over time... the information here will prove invaluable

(i'd give you the specs, but you'd just laugh at me!)

HTPC can be an old computer you have laying around if you don't need/want to go too deep! If you want basic dvd player, great music management, you can do that with pretty outdated specs!

You'll only need powerful computer if you want to go into post-processing for dvd's and wmw-hd files I posted before.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:05 pm
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CoffeeJedi
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water10 wrote:
CoffeeJedi wrote:

(i'd give you the specs, but you'd just laugh at me!)

HTPC can be an old computer you have laying around if you don't need/want to go too deep! If you want basic dvd player, great music management, you can do that with pretty outdated specs!


hm, so you're saying my mighty 800mhz pIII (free) 2-pci slot micro-atx mobo ($20) 192megs of pc-133 ram (free) 80 gig hd (free) Creative DXR3 drive/decoder (free) MONO avertv capture card (free) is up to the task! w00t!
(ok, you can all laugh now)

maybe you fellas can answer a question for me. i have a pretty decent vga->component video converter (one of the few things i paid for) and it looks pretty good when playing a movie file, but DVD's look grainy and washed out/green over it, however, if i switch the input to the s-video directly from the dvd decoder, it looks really good!
(i'm not a video-phile, so my definition of "really good" is probably far below yours)
why?
let me preface that the dx3 is one of those old cards that you connect by attaching a small cable out of the pc's vga and into the card, then it has its own vga out for the overlay, the s-video out shows ONLY the dvd content, not the desktop:
pc-vga -> dxr3-in -> dxr3-vga-out -> converter -> tv-YCbCr-in
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:23 pm
Last edited by CoffeeJedi on Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Grifter_7
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Fenwicked wrote:
Another tidbit on the Next X:
Quote:
Final Fantasy Maven Moves to Next Gen Xbox...
Mr. Sakaguchi's company has committed to creating two exclusive RPG titles to be published by Microsoft Game Studios.

This is music to my ears. Mr. Green


Mine too. I'm so looking forward to a good RPG on the Xbox. KOTOR 1 and 2 were great but it's time for something new.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:28 pm
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