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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Sable & Shuck
[PUZZLE] The S&S symbols puzzle
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trevdak
Boot

Joined: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 27

Brute Force?

For those considering brute-forcing this, I have a page that might discourage you....
http://www.cif.rochester.edu/~trevdak/arg/combos.php

That has all the combinations for places you could put the symbols and ranking you could give the numbers, assuming you get the rotation right.
Go at it. Have fun. See you in 30 years.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:49 am
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Faithers
Guest


Shocked Shocked Shocked
Holy Cow!..I was messing around earlier and put in about 100 different possiblilites..not even close to what you have listed there. I, however, was running under the assumption that the beginning of the spiral would be the spot for the most precious. So that is what I based all of combinations on. (1 being the smallest square, 6 being the largest)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:15 am
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trevdak
Boot

Joined: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 27

The request made by the flash animation goes to
http://sableshuck.com/finFinalCheck.php
I'm gonna see if my packet sniffer can tell me whether the rotation matters

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:19 am
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Faithers
Guest


This is just a small observation I have made and probably means nothing but it's worth a mention....

Each piece has the curved line on it plus a straight line...if you put all the pieces on the grid and rotate them so they form the same spiral on the webcam picture..you will notice something with the straight lines...If you zoom in on it..and look at the star in the middle you'll notice the spiral starts at the top left portion of the star and continues to spiral around towards the right...well, from each of the other three points, those straight lines also start to form a spiral...only they go in the opposite direction....Just kinda looks odd that they threw all those extra lines in there and what not and I'm wondering if they aren't supposed to mean something. The straight lines seem to link two different symbols together and then that leads back to the center...

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:42 am
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flo
Veteran


Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 121
Location: UK

anyone wishing to look into Faust... the text is here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/g

i'll have a look today.


the fibonacci spiral is the only shape that makes sense. the straight lines dont look ok if you don't follow the fibonacci shape either.

ive been trying to see whether the different website that marlowe has worked for could help with it. if you look at the list and the designs, i was thinking:

s+s -> dog (shuck)
ophis -> snake
trident air -> trident
pathway travel -> raven
inferno cargo -> fire
no butterflies, and i couldnt get anywhere with it :/

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:32 am
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GuyP
Unfettered


Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 584
Location: London, UK

I thought that too, making a connection with the sites... I tried putting the butterflies last because I thought that represented the last site to appear, helpmefindjon, what with butterfiles being souls of the dead, and Jon being, uh, dead. I've tried putting them in the order they are on the marlowe website (both up the list and down the list) and no joy. I had a brief brainwave that the coloured squares from the Day8 image matched the sites respective colour schemes, but no luck.

I'm convinced the values you type in are fibonacci numbers, or at the very very least not 1 2 3 4 5 6.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:42 am
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GuyP
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Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 584
Location: London, UK

I was thinking about using higher fibonacci numbers (for instance, starting with 21 - as we're getting 21 pieces of silver, and 10,946 is the 21st fibonacci number) but the smallest piece and the star are both the same size, and the only two fibonacci numbers the same are 1 & 1. Hence it must must must be 1 2 3 5 8 13?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:54 am
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skarob
Boot


Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 15

hey all, good to see this game up and runnin again! am at the grid, no idea what to do!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:59 am
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rowan
Unfictologist

Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 1966

Re: Brute Force?

trevdak wrote:
For those considering brute-forcing this, I have a page that might discourage you....
http://www.cif.rochester.edu/~trevdak/arg/combos.php

That has all the combinations for places you could put the symbols and ranking you could give the numbers, assuming you get the rotation right.
Go at it. Have fun. See you in 30 years.


I dunno if I quite agree with that. From what I see, in that page, the placement and the rankings are independent of each other. I don't see the logic in placing the symbols on the grid in the order A - B - C - D - E - F but ranking them 1 - 2- 3 - 4 - 6 - 5. The ranking should directly reflect the ordering - the only variable is going to be the numbering scheme. This is the way I see the number of possible combinations:

Possible combinations of the symbols: 720 (6*5*4*3*2*1)
Possible ordering schemes: 4 (1-6, 6-1, 1-13, 13-1)
Possible rotation schemes: 2 (You either rotate or don't).
Total possible: 5760

Hardly impossible. If you believe that it must have a Fibonacci ordering sequence and that rotation does matter, it drops to 1440 combinations.

This isn't saying that I advocate trying to mechanically brute force the solution by writing a program. I'm not. It's bad bad bad. But if someone wants to take the time and try 1440 combinations by hand, well then more power to them.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:31 am
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Meak
Decorated

Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 230

My reckoning is that we wont be able to fill in the grid until we've managed to find the password for the mezzanine door, and then solved the 'Book of Star'..... which will then give us the order for the six symbols.

i'm going by the Hornurch horoscope dates here... this game is not set to end until april.

also, i read the whole of faust and just checked over it this morning.... all the symbols appear in the book during the witches night "Walpurgis Night".
it mentions ravens, butterflies, snakes, a dog, lots of fire and satans trident.
walpurgis night is on april 30th.
another reason to wait......


edit: one more thing.... the six colours on the webcam8.jpg..... they look like the six primary hues according to greek art. the greeks were the first to use the golden ratio (in the parthenon)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:57 am
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setters393
Decorated


Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 205
Location: in the sun

hold that thought

good point Meak

but haven't we had the password for the mezzanine door which led us back to the photo?

although I don't think we've used any of the information to do anything else with and I'm don't think the PMs would put it there if we didn't need it.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:32 pm
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6ix
Boot


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 11
Location: Birmingham, England

Meak said...
Quote:
My reckoning is that we wont be able to fill in the grid until we've managed to find the password for the mezzanine door, and then solved the 'Book of Star'..... which will then give us the order for the six symbols.


We have the password to the mezzanine door. It is Jon's phone number, which I can't recall at the moment.
I've been looking at the s+s quote and quote from the Hornchurch horoscopes;
"The worth of a thing is what it will bring."
Now... forgive me if I am going off on a tangent, but aren't we ordering the symbols in order of worth?
If so, then we are foiled by trying to figure out what each sign 'brings'. Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:24 pm
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mephistopheles
Boot

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 18

6ix wrote:
We have the password to the mezzanine door. It is Jon's phone number, which I can't recall at the moment.


thing is i'm not sure that we're done with the mezzanine door; although we have that password, it didn't open the door itself, it pointed us to the photo.

my question is why have something misleading like a door (which leads you to think it can be opened) when all the password does for it is point you somewhere else?

why not put it somewhere less ambiguous like on the computer, where passwords are often used to protect information (such as the extra information to be found on the back of the photo)?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:04 pm
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lepidopteran
Guest


[quote=meak] i'm going by the Hornurch horoscope dates here... this game is not set to end until april [/quote]
Actually, in the privacy policy after the final assessment, it gives the breakdown of the contest... First time i've seen it in print. It says the prize is to be given out by july 27, 2005 if no one has solved it. It also says, if no one actually solves it, the person who came the closest (in the promoter's opinion) will be awarded the 10,946 sterling. It ALSO says that this contest is open to residents of the UK, so i'm not sure us North Americans can even win (what a bummer!). As a final note, the whole game is promoted by inbev, not many of the other subdivisions we considered earlier... well its all there in plain english- check it for yourself!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:30 pm
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green ice queen
Unfettered


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 301
Location: derby, england

lepidopteran wrote:
[quote=meak] It says the prize is to be given out by july 27, 2005 if no one has solved it. It also says, if no one actually solves it, the person who came the closest (in the promoter's opinion) will be awarded the 10,946 sterling.


noooo!!!! they cant end the game before its solved!! that would be sooo sh*t!! Shocked Sad

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:54 pm
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