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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Strange Dreams Pt. 1 & 2
[HARBINGERS][TRAILHEAD] Card Sent to ARGN
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InSoM
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Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 109
Location: Newcastle

 		red card letters as guessed by me

tl
ir
as
al
hb
ri
dn
mw
ao
db
uv
sr
at
ni
ns
rs
un

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:08 pm
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enaxor
I Have No Life

Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 2395

 		Each card has a couple of words on it, "History bends, but can not break the light of his truth".
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:22 pm
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enaxor
I Have No Life

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 		I sent another email to vs faery and asked when He will be coming and what should I do to prepare for His coming. Just got a reply. I guess we have to solve the letter pairs to find the path, I'm thinking it will be a web address.

Quote:
His return has been foretold to align with our preparations. When the
time is right, He shall return.

To help prepare, seek the deeper meaning to the harbingers. Only
through proper contemplation over each and all can the truth and the
path be found.

..vs_faery..

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:30 pm
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Phaedra
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enaxor wrote:
I sent another email to vs faery and asked when He will be coming and what should I do to prepare for His coming. Just got a reply. I guess we have to solve the letter pairs to find the path, I'm thinking it will be a web address.

Quote:
His return has been foretold to align with our preparations. When the
time is right, He shall return.

To help prepare, seek the deeper meaning to the harbingers. Only
through proper contemplation over each and all can the truth and the
path be found.

..vs_faery..


<sigh>

Characters never reply to my emails.

The only one that ever did was Melissa.

Woe is me.

EDIT: Either the PM/s is/are reading this forum, and took pity, or I jumped the gun:

vs faery wrote:
Hail and well met, devoted one!

Each must find their own path to the truth. If you are faithful to
your heart, your spirit will guide you true. But beware the
temptations of the dubious or the untrustworthy. Should you choose to
accept what is false, so too shall be your reward. Accept the truth,
and the truth shall set you free.

..vs_faery..


Hmm. Tempted to ask, with such an overtly biblical worldview, why s/he is sporting a name like "faery."
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:06 pm
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step
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 		I just performed a unilateral frequency distribution analysis of all the letters, appearing in the letter pair columns, for all cards combined.

The distribution matches the normal distribution for English. This implies the message has been encrypted with a transposition cipher.

Just wanted to share my results.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:05 am
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Phaedra
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Marrec wrote:
Phaedra wrote:
Actually, immortality...hm. Vpisteve's card had an apple tree drawn on it, no?


Word, the apple tree had nine apples with the bottom most apple being home to a cute little worm. Its situated above a sign that says 'truth' and perhaps, humorously, a rabbit hole.

Thinking Adam and Eve connection here, or something else?


Adam and Eve, Trees of Knowledge and Life, and so on. That does seem to be where we're headed, yes?

Marrec wrote:
Okay so you know how the numbers missing from the card ARGN got were 1.1 and 2.4, well traditional Christian beliefs hold that the Genesis verses 1:1 through 2:4 are the so called "Creation of Earth and Heaven" verses. So we found on the IRC chan.


It's interesting that they should choose to reference only the first creation story (for those that aren't familiar, the chapter and verse numbers were randomly assigned -- the first half of 2:4 clearly belongs to the first (seven days) creation story, while the second belongs to the second (Adam and Eve) creation story -- generally they're referred to as 2:4a and 2:4b) since reference was made (in the drawing) to the Garden story.

Hmm. Well, since we're being directed to the passage, perhaps we should take a close look at it. Perhaps clues to the "truth" to which vs faery is trying to lead us are contained therein.

Translating from Hebrew to English involves a lot of delicate balancing acts and choices -- I'll post both the KJV (although I personally think the JPS is a bit more lucid) because most people are probably familiar with it, and I'll also post Everett Fox's (an attempt to recreate the rhythms and sense of the Hebrew text) just for fun:

King James Version wrote:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
[6] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
[7] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
[8] And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
[9] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
[10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
[11] And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
[12] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[13] And the evening and the morning were the third day.
[14] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[17] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[18] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
[19] And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
[20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
[21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[22] And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
[23] And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created...


And the Fox:

Schocken Bible wrote:
At the beginning of God's creating of the heavens and the earth,
when the earth was wild and waste,
darkness over the face of Ocean,
rushing-spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters--

God said: Let there be light! And there was light.
God saw the light: that it was good.
God separated the light from the darkness.
God called the light: Day! and the darkness he called: Night!
There was setting, there was dawning: one day.

God said:
Let there be a dome amid the waters.
and let it separate waters from waters!
God made the dome
and separated the waters that were below the dome from the waters that were above the dome.
It was so.
God called the dome: Heaven!
There was setting, there was dawning: second day.

God said:
Let the waters under the heavens be gathered to one place,
and let the dry land be seen!
It was so.

God called the dry land: Earth! and the gathering of the waters he called: Seas!
God saw that it was good.
God said:
Let the earth sprout forth with sprouting-growth,
plants that seed forth seeds, fruit trees that yield fruit, after their kind, (and) in which is their seed, upon the earth!
It was so.
The earth brought forth sprouting-growth,
plants that seed forth seeds, after their kind,
trees that yield fruit, in which is their seed, after their kind.
God saw that it was good.
There was setting, there was dawning: third day.

God said:
Let there be lights in the dome of the heavens, to separate the day from the night,
that they may be for signs -- for set-times, for days and years,
and let them be for lights in the dome of the heavens, to provide light upon the earth!
It was so.
God made two great lights,
the greater light for ruling the day and the smaller light for ruling the night,
and the stars.
God placed them in the dome of the heavens
to provide light upon the earth, to rule the day and the night, to separate the light from the darkness.
God saw that it was good.
There was setting, there was dawning: fourth day.

God said:
Let the waters swarm with a swarm of living beings, and let fowl fly above the earth, across the dome of the heavens!
God created the great sea-serpents
and all living beings that crawl about, with which the waters swarmed, after their kind,
and all winged fowl after their kind.
God saw that it was good.
And God blessed them, saying:
Bear fruit and be many and fill the waters in the seas,
and let the fowl be many on earth!
There was setting, there was dawning: fifth day.

God said:
Let the earth bring forth living beings after their kind,
herd-animals, crawling things, and the wildlife of the earth after their kind!
It was so.
God made the wildlife of the earth after their kind, and the herd-animals after their kind, and all crawling things of the soil after their kind.
God saw that it was good.
God said:
Let us make humankind, in our image, according to our likeness!
Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the fowl of the heavens, animals, all the earth, and all crawling things that crawl about upon the earth!
So God created humankind in his image,
in the image of God did he create it,
male and female he created them.
God blessed them,
God said to them:
Bear fruit and be many and fill the earth
and subdue it!
Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the fowl of the heavens,
and all living things that crawl about upon the earth!
God said:
Here, I give you
all plants that bear seeds that are upon the face of the earth,
and all trees in which there is tree fruit that bears seeds,
for you shall they be, for eating;
and also for all the living things of the earth, for all the fowl of the heavens, for all that crawls about upon the earth in which there is living being --
all green plants for eating.
It was so.
Now God saw all that he had made,
and here: it was exceedingly good!
There was setting, there was dawning: the sixth day.

Thus were finished the heavens and the earth, with all of their array.
God had finished, on the seventh day, his work that he had made,
and then he ceased, on the seventh day, from all his work that he had made.
God gave the seventh day his blessing, and he hallowed it,
for on it he ceased from all his work, that by creating, God had made.
These are the begettings of the heavens and the earth: their being created.


Like I said, it's interesting that we're pointed, here, only to the first creation story (it's much more interesting in context, and in tension, with the second).

But then again, I think that it fits in well with the reference to Kepler.

Kepler believed he had found a harmonious "theory of everything" system that explained creation and revealed G-d's plan. The first creation story is harmonious. The second (Adam and Eve) is anything but.

WARNING: Literary analysis. May bore. Don't feel obligated to read it

Creation story #1 is very stately. Everything is beautifully choreographed in parallel clauses linked by "and" (unfortunately, most English translations, in a desire to be "good English" disguise this in order to make it flow). Everything is numerically ordered in a rhythmic, repetitive process. There is a lot of repetition, which emphasizes the orderly sequence in which everything happens. There's also a very vertical perspective. We, the readers, get to see everything from G-d's point of view, which won't be the case in most of the rest of the Bible. G-d's lengthy creative commands are reported as dialogue.

Also, everything is represented in balanced pairings (hmm...pairs of letters on the cards?) that are usually binary oppositions. Creation is envisaged as a process of separation or splitting. For the first four days, the operative verb is usually "to divide."

The final section -- the description of the first Sabbath (2:2-3), is pretty much symmetrical in Hebrew.

So, this all reflects a particular worldview: order is the keynote of creation -- it is a coherent progression. One might even say that Law is already manifested as the underpinning of creation in the symmetrical divisions and divine speech that cause creation to happen. To invoke Einstein, G-d most definitely does not play dice with the universe, here.

Which, however, is exactly what he does in the Garden story, by creating humans with their dangerous free will while imposing on them an absolute prohibition. (It's probably telling that the second story, unlike the grand, orderly prose of the first story, begins with a winding -- one might almost say "sinuous" Wink string of clauses.)

POINT: The first creation story, unlike the second, presents a picture of an orderly, hierarchical universe. The cards referenced Kepler, who thought he had discovered a mathematical, harmonious system that was also "G-d's plan."

[SPEC]Perhaps the "truth" is a rejection of some element of the second story -- free will, mortality, etc.

Or maybe the PMs are trying to prove that Eve was framed Wink -- call it the Biblical Innocence Project. [/SPEC]

Marrec wrote:
Also, just a thought, there are 18 pairs of letters on each card. Does anyone have a list of letters from the red, blurry card that I can compair notes with?


Hmm. This is probably random, but in Hebrew, 18 is a very significant number -- it's chai: life.

But probably the PMs are going with a Christian cosmology on this, so that's likely to be irrelevant.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:09 am
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Phaedra
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step wrote:
I just performed a unilateral frequency distribution analysis of all the letters, appearing in the letter pair columns, for all cards combined.

The distribution matches the normal distribution for English. This implies the message has been encrypted with a transposition cipher.

Just wanted to share my results.


Good idea.

Now -- the distribution matches the normal distribution for English -- exactly?

As in:

e: 12.7
t: 9.1
a: 8.2
o: 7.5
i: 7.0

and so on?

Or was there a letter that appeared roughly 13% of the time, another that appeared roughly 9% and so on? If so, can you post the results?

I almost think the pairs are not ciphered -- that it's plaintext English (with no spaces) and we just need to put them in the right order.

The two w's in a row make me think that there may be a webpage, or webpages, in the text.

EDIT: Did my own -- the frequency analysis matches that of English.

I don't think this is ciphered.

Also, are we assuming that the two-letter word that starts each sentence at the bottom of each column is one of the letter-pairs?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:53 am
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Tiny
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Location: Cincy, OH or there abouts!

 		Question Ok so I'm looking this over and I have to admit, I have no idea what you mean by frequency with all the percentages and distribution stuff? I get that your talking about all the pairs of letters running down the side of each card, but what are you actually saying? Confused
Tj-
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:17 pm
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vector
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Phaedra wrote:

Also, are we assuming that the two-letter word that starts each sentence at the bottom of each column is one of the letter-pairs?[/i]


I would think so.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:37 pm
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Phaedra
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Tiny wrote:
Question Ok so I'm looking this over and I have to admit, I have no idea what you mean by frequency with all the percentages and distribution stuff? I get that your talking about all the pairs of letters running down the side of each card, but what are you actually saying? Confused
Tj-


Hi Tiny.

Sorry about that. It might have gotten a little too cryptography-jargony, hmm?

Frequency analysis is one of the tools used in cryptography.

Let's say you have a cipher you want to break. This works best with a long block of text, because the longer the text, the more likely the frequency with which letters are used is to match English in general.

So, you haul out your distribution chart, which shows the frequency with which each letter is used in English.

Just using the abbreviated version I cited above:

Quote:
e: 12.7
t: 9.1
a: 8.2
o: 7.5
i: 7.0


What this means is that in English, 12.7% of the letters used are E. E is the most frequently used letter in the English language and in any normal, long text, if you count how often each letter appears, E will appear 12.7% of the time. T is the second-most common letter in English. It comprises 9.1% of the letters used in English, and so on. You can also do this for double letters -- how often the pairs appear.

So, now let's get back to your ciphertext.

You count up how often each letter is used. (Or, if you're smart, you run it through a program that analyzes the frequency of letter usage.)

Let's say you find out that the letter A is used 13.1% of the time, B is used 8.9% of the time, C is used 8.1% of the time, and D is used 7.6% of the time.

It's likely that A=E, B=T, C=A, and D=O.

The longer the ciphertext is, the closer the frequencies will likely be to those of plaintext English.

In this case, when we did frequency analyses of the columns of letters, they came out to be close to English -- E was the most common, T was the second most common, and so on.

Which leads me to believe the text isn't ciphered -- just scrambled.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:51 pm
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Phaedra
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vector wrote:
Phaedra wrote:

Also, are we assuming that the two-letter word that starts each sentence at the bottom of each column is one of the letter-pairs?[/i]


I would think so.


Okay, good.

Not that that brings me any closer to figuring it out.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:53 pm
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enaxor
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 		If we use all the letters together we have 180 letters to decipher, but each card contains 36 letters which fit nicely into a 6x6 grid. Either way I'm terrible with this stuff and have no clue how to solve it. I guess I'll never find the path.
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 		Phaedra, I must admit your mini-thesis into the Genesis texts are quite good. Just wanted to poke in and say that. Also, I tend to agree that this is more of a word jumble than an out-and-out cipher. (but since I said this publicly, I will most likely be wrong Laughing) I tend to agree that once we have all the pairs, we will be able to move em around to produce a note of some sort. I also got the inklings of a website with the "ww" pair. How else can we explain such close usage of the same two letters, unless it's a simple substitution cipher (but with the percentages being as they are, I have to side with you as well, that there again, is no cipher...) anyway, good work. (I'll continue to lurk.) I just wanted to lend my encouragement/opinions to join with your theories! Jetpack

Edit: Can anyone post a doc or something with all the letter pairs in order? (a grid would be nice, but not necessary, as long as separated by "card")

2nd Edit: When I say "in order", of course, I'm not asking for the solve... just "arranged properly" as listed in the cards...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:45 pm
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jazzysixx
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 		Still can't make out the red card very well.... these are listed from left to right: Cards #2 (White), #3(Gray), #4 (Lt blue), #5 (Red), #6 (Dk. Blue)

wv ww jp tl fd
aa oa eo ir ae
yy ul ug as tg
yw er tt al wc
no hn so hb ao
de rs ov rl nr
os et on dn yy
eb dr wr mw es
id tr aa ao sn
ed yh un do mc
et df os uu iy
as re ru sr uc
rr ne ee at ir
ne dd id nl eg
so an vc ns rr
do ab ea nr wo
os gl nt un jn
No It He We We

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:13 pm
Last edited by jazzysixx on Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kelis
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 		I think it might be some kind of "letter grid" code. Each pair of characters represents one letter. Consider them the x and y on the grid. So, wv would have you go accross the w row until you come to the v column and that is the correct replacement. Question is, what is the proper size and arrangement of the grid.

Any ideas?

EDIT: If you hit the magnify button on the "shoe" image, it zooms to the print at the bottom, no. Maybe part of the code or part of the key?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:14 pm
Last edited by Kelis on Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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