unforum

[jamesi]

Ah, rebuttals. My reason for living!

[Dorkmaster]

Down with hyper bowls... or something.

I really hate to repeat myself repeat myself, but I really think people are missing the point here... this discussion is not to say that gAIMes are bad, just that they may not really be ARGs, by the "traditional" sense. It doesn't mean they're not games. It doesn't mean they're not good. It just means they're not ARGs. However, some are not games, and some are not good. But that could be said of a couple of ARGs as well...

Point being, (and I'm pointing my multi-directional finger at everyone here) stop acting like someone killed your puppy with a meat tenderizer*! We're just trying to define a budding genre, and we can't be all "EVERYONE IS SPECIAL" about it, cuz truth is, everyone isn't. Not all games are ARGs (even if they claim to be). There has to be some dividing line between "this is an ARG" and "this is an entertaining (or not) I.F./puzzle trail/sexbot**". (I don't know if that was necessarily what Imbri was starting, but that's what this has become.)

Just cuz someone says your idea is stupid, doesn't mean they're saying YOU'RE stupid (sometimes).

*Unless your puppy is actually being killed with a meat tenderizer... in which case, feel free to act like it.
**sexbots will always be entertaining.

Edited to remove superfluous words and brain cells

[imbri]

[Nightmare Tony]

Whichi leads right back to the beginning.

If a game was ENTIRELY AIM based with no puzzles or website things, I would call it more a d & d thing.

We are seeing games with a good mix of both. They are using AIm and conversations for player interaction.

Its all in the service of a good story.

So, lets take a basics. An AIM Game which UF has defined and given forums as an ARG. And by the defition posted in here, is merely a gAIM, and not a true arg.

Synagoga.

Started as an AIM conversation.
Clues led to a website.
A single website which kept adding in new pages and new puzzles.
Game characters were in everyday communications with the players. The game also modified to the player base.


ARG or not?



(and PLEASE, the number of websites isnt a mark, Bees was only a single website, too).

Jamesi: it might help to listen to music in all forms rather than simply the top 40 to understand the context of garage band. Let me just say, a garage band you can compare to a grassroots ARG, and a game like Bees you can compare to Jennifer Lopez. Staples Center holds at least 20,000 people. Comprende?

Also preperation has to take a side seat to flexibility if an unforeseen circumstance happens which can change a game dynamic. Weephun, for example.

On the Louvre, there are unknown artists with every bit as much talent as who shows there. In grassroots campaigns, there are some true maestros of ARG creation. Take Colin Brennan, for instance. Not as famous as Sean Steweart, but Colin's games are no less talented or intriguing.

There is room in the ARG world for everyone and everything. Because a game begins as an AIM conversation doesnt make it any less valid a game.

Evolve or die.

[Dorkmaster]

Actually Tony, while it wasn't certain people's bag, I don't think a lot of people would say that Synagoga was a bad thing, or not an ARG. I think it was, and I think having the puzzles & website attest to that. However, there are quite a few proliferating games that are taking place SOLELY on AIM, that ARE quite schizo in their plots and are not what I would consider ARGs, but in fact interactive fiction, or even "improvisational fiction" might be better...

I just think it's been pretty clear that people aren't saying that using AIM in an ARG is bad, or even undesirable, but that a game that does not have puzzles, or a game that does not have consistent plot, or a link to a website is not an ARG, and moreover not a pleasant game in my opinion*.

*Dorkmaster actually does not own his own opinion. In 2003, there was a venture buyout of DM's personal inventory, including said opinion. For a written copy of Dorkmaster's opinion, please write:

The Wife/Boss
PO Box 010000010101001001000111
Shezgotmymanhood, IL 90854-0111

Edit: I love my wife, BTW... really, I do.

[Nightmare Tony]

Ok, tHAT I can agree with. Even aim puzzles can exist instead of website, but must be a puzzle wise.

Bad game plot can occur at most any level. Look at television today. (its a reason I dont watch TV

When an alternate world view is created, it has its own sense of logic. Part of the fun of the players is discovering and working with the logic.

and what may appear to be a normal world view may hide something far more.

Imbri:L thanks on the quote thing, always a help here and there

[miss_seph]

well ok then

In this thread we've decided that Synagoga wasn't an ARG. It was just fiction, with characters, that took place in real time, in a reality not-as-we-know-it.

So, it was an Alternate Reality Fiction.

I love bees WAS an ARG, however. It was fiction, with characters, that didn't take place in real time, but it did, at the same time (woaaaah confusion), also in a reality not-as-we-know-it (cos let's face it, my reality doesn't have AI's crash landing on my pc and plotting my demise).

So that is an Alternate Reality Game

Now, here's my confusion point. What's the difference?

let's ignore Synagoga for a second and open it up to all AIM launched games vs ILB.

Why did Margaret send Steve etc bottles of honey? Bottles of honey with letters in them. I could see it potentially as a marketing ploy, to send thousands of random people bottles of oney with her website in letters amongst the honey, but why would you want to attract people to your website when it's all screwed up. The only reason I could see, is to get them to help you find out what's going on.

That's all fine and dandy, but how did she know to send them to these people? Because she heard they were 'good at puzzles'?

So why was HKDL AIM'd? Cos he was found on a board that had discussions amongst people that were 'good at puzzles'?

Failing to see the difference except for a bigger budget.

Please correct me if I"m wrong. I'm just confused as to how ILB is CLEARLY labelled an ARG yet Synagoga or any other AIM launched game isn't.

Infact, let's open this thread up to include a topic from various dead threads (as I am infact the original Dead Thread Revival girl) and ask for a clear cut definition of the genre "ARG". One that we can all agree on as a wider community and use from here on in.

thoughts? Opinions? sorry for the novel folks

[bill]

Several people have opened the door about trailheads now.

How is launching a game by AIMing hkdl (or anyone else) different from sending a tip to Steve (or anyone else)?

Is one choice better than than the other?

[Nightmare Tony]

Must be the budget.

Synagoga not only had the AIm start, it also sent a $4 religious relic covered with blood to Steve. That makes it an ARG.

Bees sent jars of honey. A bit less in cost, and no AIM trailhead, so less budget there. Comprende?

(satire OFF)

[krystyn]

ilovebees was a bit tricky, sure, because the end result was the launch of a much-anticipated video game sequel.

But yeah, I always thought the jars of honey were fairly problematic, ARG-wise. The movie trailer less so, because it was so directly tying it to a product that makes no bones about it being a video game and NOT reality.

[hkdl]

Someone in this thread has a sense of humour or atleast a lurking following it

A person Named Cut in info aimed me which anagrams to unfiction. Then also mentioned to wait until Imbri talks or some shit...funny hahahaha Bleh.

[PokeKiller]

Okay, as long as hkdl mentioned it, I'll just post it here.
As hkdl said, this "cut in info" IMed him, and Miss Caro figured out that it anagrams to Unfiction.

[vpisteve]

[hkdl]

[miss_seph]

when people say MU I get confused.

Project MU? or Metaunlimited. *head 'splodes*

yeah fair call too Steve, it was one person's opinion. I love this thread Opinions for everyone!