unforum

[imbri]

it's an alternate REALITY!

[imbri]

it IS NOT a game of communication. it IS a game of collaboration.


discuss

[imbri]

it IS NOT a labyrinth. it IS a maze.


discuss

[addlepated]

What is the difference between a labyrinth and a maze?

[QBKooky]

[PokeKiller]

[imbri]

labyrinth
maze

In a very basic sense, it has to do with the level of agency (or percieved agency) that a player is afforded. While the way may be long and confusing in both the labyrinth and the maze, the labyrinth contains fewer options, fewer choices. The narrative is more linear and, in ways, fed to the player. The maze, however, is much more open and often filled with dead ends and circular paths. The narrative branches and, in ways, is up to the player to uncover. Labyrinths need to be followed and mazes need to be explored.

[bill]

A labyrinth has but one path. When traversing a labyrinth, the journey usually takes precedence over the destination. Along the path, there are opportunities for meditation, comtemplation and introspection. Once the journey is complete, the significance of the final reward is often best appreciated by experiencing the journey.

A maze is first and foremost a puzzle meant to be solved. The side passages and numerous turns are intended to misdirect attention and deceive.

[RobMagus]

Are we overdue for a serious discussion or something?

Hmm...

Communication Vs collaboration: How can you have collaboration without communication? The player base of an ARG pretty much lives on IRC and the forums, and spend most of the time communicating information to each other so that they can collaborate on solving puzzles/putting together a story/ordering a pizza. Of course, ARGs definitely encourage collaboration, as there's a hell of a lot of things in them and no one person could ever hope to have enough knowledge to get them all. This really isn't anything new. Are you trying to get at something, imb, or are you just using us to get quotes for a project?

[imbri]

twas nothing other than moody imbri making an appearance. It was one of those days and all it took was for yet another AIM game to send me over the "gah!" edge. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Aim is Not A Game. Use some creativity people! We've got that here in spades, so I know we're capable of more

I honestly do understand the temptation to use tools such as AIM, blogs, and email in an ARG. But, in my opinion, games that rely upon them are usually nothing more than a communication based IF. They can be used to TELL a story but it's so difficult to use them to create an ARG. It takes an extremely talented author to turn conversational bits into a rich story world and then a strong game designer to turn it into an ARG. We're seeing more and more of these efforts and, knowing what the community is made of, it frustrates me to see us creating such lazy experiences and then calling them ARGs. It's even more frustrating when the story itself has potential as a strong ARG. Sometimes I feel as if it's a waste.

- b

[Nightmare Tony]

I would differ. I am involved with a game that began on websites ans is evolving into an AIM and email based, with the websites and puzzles slowly being left behind. That is because the storyline is so compelling that the players are drawn more into it, and the puzzles are actually acting as a hidnrance to the game.

Luckily, the powers that be recognize that trend in the game and its modified accordingly.

Last game I played was also primarily IRC based with very little puzzle work. Also more rewarding.

[krystyn]

But then doesn't it slip into role-playing, quite a bit?

I kept getting pinged in AIM by characters, and I was immediately shoved into a 'role,' and lemme tell ya, a girl sure can get resentful awful quick when she's at work and some conspiracy theorist is spamming her screen with gobbledygook.

That's right, I said gobbledygook.

[imbri]

[Nightmare Tony]

Ok. I was speaking of the game I was playing, Strange Dreams. Its becoming more of an interactive experience.

ARG is an Alternate Reality Game. The means of storytelling helps enrich the experience, instead of simply styaying in one format. If the PMS decide that the game can be deeper via more interaction and less puzzlework, then so be it! Must there be a rigid percentage of how manyu websites, how many word or number puzzlesd must be solved to be defined as an aRG?

So if a game has no puzzles, then its an IF instead of ARG? ALL ARGSD are interqactive, to one degree or another. If the PM group fails to respond to the needs of the players, they risk having their game get stuck or shut down due to lack of interest or failure to progress.

And let us look at the previous game I was playing, Project Wildfire. The amount of puzzles is quite minimal compared to the interaction required of the game. The storyline drew in the players to interact with the game, to enhance its reality.

By your definition, Wildfire wasnt an ARG but an IF. I maintain it is both, and mis most definitely an ARG.

In terms of mazxes and labyrinths, by the very interaction of the players within the game structure via AIM or other methods, they DIRECTLY influence the storyline. I Love Bees was fairly rigid with a planned storyline which allowed for basically no player deviation. Weephun was the only person out of millions to change the storyline in ANY way or form.

By comparison, the storyline for WI and Strange Dreams depends HEAVILY on the player interactions and modifies as a result. I also lump in Synagoga with WI since its the same game.

would you call those games as merely IFs because they ARE influenceable, or are they true ARGs?

We continue to evolve the definition as the genre expands. To keep to the same definition means that to play a proper ARG would mean that we would endless repeat the Beast ad nauseum.

[imbri]

Tony, again, where did I say that puzzles had ANYTHING to do with it? You are completely putting words into my posts that just are not there.