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 Forum index » Updates » Press and Other Analysis
[PRESS]ARG article in PCGamer
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Wishi-san
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Joined: 20 Oct 2003
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Location: UK. Southwards.

 		Well I liked it Smile Probably the most comprehensive coverage on ARGs so far in a magazine (to the best of my knowledge) - the worst thing was the terribly corny pictures Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:13 pm
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botherer
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 11

 		Re: good work adrian and dan
Two in one:

Brain\Storm wrote:
It still made me cringe a bit the way they said some things.
"This is not newbie-friendly territory" <--Since when?
OHHHH you mean trout?


Ah, the internet. In one breath shocked at the idea that ARG might not be newbie-friendly, and using a phrase like "trout" without pause.

Imagine being new to even this forum: people speak in a unique vocabulary, and it becomes so familiar that they forget it's not familiar to all. Most of the communication, even on UF, is impenetrable.

I believe it was my job to capture my experience when starting exploring ARGs, and what I encountered more than anything else was impenetrable language, recursive glossaries, and all prior knowledge assumed. If anything, I massively downplayed this experience in the piece, because I want to encourage people to give ARG a go, despite the difficulties. Is it possible that the ARG community has stopped engaging with the stranger outside, and failed to think about how to welcome them in?

Jonathan2k5(notloggedin) wrote:

That would be me...hehe 8)


Yes indeed - raise Jonathan aloft your shoulders. Last year he wrote a letter to Gamer asking us to have a look. It took a flipping long time to come about, but finally we covered something we think is really exciting. And I think we gave it a fair amount of space, too. The guys at Perplex City were brilliantly helpful to me, and made for an excellent example game to use in the article to illustrate how it works - not their doing, but mine. Although I doubt it will have done them any harm : ) I dread to think which evil bloody company I'll have ended up advertising...

Anyway, my hope is that the piece raises some awareness about the genre, and gets a few people playing. I realise that some will not see past errors, or far worse, that it doesn't eulogise the genre without criticism. But I hope the positives can be seen too. Thanks for all the comments so far.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:18 pm
Last edited by botherer on Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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maxim
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Joined: 18 Feb 2005
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 		Re: [PRESS]ARG article in PCGamer
botherer wrote:
Sorry it didn't meet your expectations.


Oh no, it really did. All publicity is good publicity! I especially like the link to 'private investigators' and the spy-type thing going on in the backgrounds. That makes it look pretty cool!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:20 pm
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jamesi
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

 		Re: [PRESS]ARG article in PCGamer
botherer wrote:
It was a fairly huge subject to write about, and I did my very best to explain a completely new concept to a brand new audience, and capture my experiences while doing so.


Writing about ARG for a general audience can be cumbersome and complicated. (Having to explain to a border patrol guard why you are driving to Fargo from Winnipeg to answer a payphone is almost as difficult Very Happy ). You did a wonderful job of opening up the genre to a much wider audience, and those of us who genuinely care for this little slice of gamer heaven do sincerely appreciate your initiative.

botherer wrote:
Sorry it didn't meet your expectations.

You can't please all of the people all of the time. ARG veterans have a slightly different view on things. Smile I think your piece was great.

rose wrote:
And on a completely different note, who knew there were so many, um, racks of magazines with women in varying stages of undress on the covers??

I did. Razz
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:42 pm
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SpaceBass
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Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 2701
Location: pellucidar

 		Re: Cringe may thee
Brain\Storm wrote:
So lets say someone is getting their daily fill-in here on the forums and wants to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible without reading the exact same puzzle solve 5 or 6 times? Trout was "invented" to bring a TINY,-mind you-, amount of shame to the person who did so. It's not like we go tearing people's heads off. How unfriendly is this? --> Trout

I take serious exception to this incorrect statement and frankly I am getting right tired of people constantly misconstruing the term.

From the uF glossary:
Quote:
Trout is a term coined by Cloudmaker Dan Fabulich during the Beast. In his own words, it means "Listen, I respect you. It's great that you're here and posting and that we're working together for a common goal. Nonetheless, I have some polite criticisms." Trout is a term of respect that replaces the need to say "you're redundant!" with a courteous term that acknowledges the hard work involved even in redundant efforts.


Read that, read it again, then click the link and read what Dan actually wrote. Nowhere is there any implication that trouting should be used as some sort of smackdown or punishment, nor that there is ANY shame involved in being trouted. In fact, it's very purpose for being is to do the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Thank you for your support.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:48 pm
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Brain\Storm
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Joined: 19 Nov 2004
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 		Re: good work adrian and dan
botherer wrote:
Imagine being new to even this forum: people speak in a unique vocabulary, and it becomes so familiar that they forget it's not familiar to all. Most of the communication, even on UF, is impenetrable.

We suspected, (in chat aswell as here), that you had to be coming from this point of view. The bad thing is that it worries me how someone may misinterpret that as "this genre doesn't want new people to come and be a part of the fun, we'd rather act like we're more elite and not help when asked.
The truth remains that, (speaking with my own opinions), this genre may seem hard to come into and be a part of, but in all actuality its not. The people i have met and become friends with here are extremely cool and loads of fun to communicate with, and play games with side-by-side. We're an unbreakable team, and we want more people to come join the fun.
I gratuitously thank you for using your resources to help this cause, please don't think your efforts will go unrecognized. Keep this sort of thing up and you'll have friends for life. Smile Come into chat and say hi sometime! Very Happy

Oh and Space, i'm just going by the way i've seen "trout" be used. I stand corrected though, it is in fact defined plain as day. Sorry to offend if i did, but people "smacked me around with a large trout" a lot too. -I do apologise for the misinterpretation of the word. Thanks for clearing that up. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:00 pm
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

 		Re: [PRESS]ARG article in PCGamer
botherer wrote:

It was a fairly huge subject to write about, and I did my very best to explain a completely new concept to a brand new audience, and capture my experiences while doing so. Sorry it didn't meet your expectations.


It met mine Smile

We can't even fully describe the concept ourselves sometimes Razz so I can understand how big of a task it must have been. Thanks for the article, I only wish it were in the US version so I could make all of my friends buy it!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:03 pm
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Phaedra
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 		Okay, I want to say, first off, that I do appreciate your efforts to bring the genre to a wider audience. I also appreciate that it's difficult to describe it concisely -- most of us just figure out what it is by playing one, rather than looking for a definition, so I understand that it was probably very difficult to figure out how to write an introduction to it.

That said...

botherer wrote:
Imagine being new to even this forum: people speak in a unique vocabulary, and it becomes so familiar that they forget it's not familiar to all. Most of the communication, even on UF, is impenetrable.


Not if you ask.

Believe it or not, I can imagine being new to this forum, seeing as I've been here for less than six months.

You're here reading META threads in which people who have been here a while, and/or are interested in discussing the genre, rather than just playing a game, are engaged in what, in many cases, are ongoing discussions.

Of course there's going to be tons of jargon. There would be tons of jargon in any analogous situation, regardless of the field. That doesn't mean that the field itself is impenetrable.

The other thing you don't appear to be considering is that every time there is a big, highly-publicized game like Ilovebees or Perplex City, there is a massive influx of new players. Most of the people with whom I was interacting here when I was new were also new. We learned the jargon together, from the older players. It wasn't the bewildering experience that, say, popping into *this* thread, or the threads in the META forum would be.

The first time I was trouted, I believe, or maybe it was the first time I witnessed a trouting, the person who was administering it provided a link to the definition of "trout." That's probably something that we should be more careful to do on a regular basis, but on the other hand, anyone who gets, as a response, an emoticon of one yellow smiley face smacking another over the head with a fish and doesn't ask...

botherer wrote:
I believe it was my job to capture my experience when starting exploring ARGs, and what I encountered more than anything else was impenetrable language, recursive glossaries, and all prior knowledge assumed.


But did you *go to a forum and ask*? I mean, did you write a post saying, "what does the term 'PuppetMaster' mean?"

In case you didn't notice, the very basis of ARG is *player curiosity.* If players are passive, if they don't inquire, if they don't collaborate, if they don't go hunting for knowledge, they're not so much playing the game as observing.

That's not to say that people haven't lurked and observed for an entire game and enjoyed it, but without the people who found the websites and solved the puzzles and assembled the story line and did the phone relays and so on, the game could not have happened.

We're in the unique position of both playing "against" the PMs (they give us challenges and put obstacles to understanding in our way) and collaborating with them.

Everything that "happens" in an ARG happens because of inquiry and collaboration.

I don't worry very much about people who come here knowing nothing. If they're curious enough to do the sort of inquiry and research that are the meat of playing an ARG, if they're curious enough to find this place, whether their play is puzzle- or storyline-focused, or both, they'll probably ask. If they don't ask "What does 'trout' mean?" (provided, also, that they don't have the wherewithal to simply find the definition on their own, considering that basic Google skills are pretty vital to most ARGs), someone else will, and they'll read the answer.

botherer wrote:
If anything, I massively downplayed this experience in the piece, because I want to encourage people to give ARG a go, despite the difficulties.


Well, thank you for that.

botherer wrote:
Is it possible that the ARG community has stopped engaging with the stranger outside, and failed to think about how to welcome them in?


No.

Have you spent any time here? Have you actually *observed* the interaction?

Have you noticed that once a game's been going for a while, there's usually a sticky at the top of the forum, entitled "summary" or "quick-start: READ THIS FIRST" or some similar, OBVIOUS signpost to where to get up to speed.

Do you see masses of newbies posting:

n00b wrote:
Please, PLEASE will someone listen to me and help me because I'm so confused and I'm not getting any answers from anyone! All I want to know is what "the curtain" is! Can you all stop talking a mile a minute and please just answer my question?


I rather doubt it. Since in any game, no matter how intense the puzzle-solving or speculation or whatever else might be at that moment, if I see a "what is a ______________?" post I respond automatically with an answer. Yesterday I spent most of the morning walking a newbie through the basics of cryptography.

And I'm not even an old-timer. I, personally, do comparatively *little* in the way of welcoming new people compared to many here.

A lot of people in this community expend a great deal of time and effort to make sure that new people are welcomed and brought up to speed.

There are limits to their abilities, of course -- the nature of a discussion forum like this is that anyone who doesn't post is invisible.

But providing they can be troubled to ask the question, they get help.

Is it possible that the ARG community has failed to think about how to welcome the stranger in?

Every time there's a new game and the newbies come flooding in, Mr. Walker, the ARG community thinks of little else.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:05 pm
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missphinx
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Joined: 02 Oct 2003
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 		I thought it was a great article too. Kudos.

And I'd like to thank you for linking to your bunny. I particularly adore this one: http://www.briansguide.net/index.cgi?ID=1112022046-C-RIL

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:06 pm
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Phaedra
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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 		Re: [PRESS]ARG article in PCGamer
jamesi wrote:
(Having to explain to a border patrol guard why you are driving to Fargo from Winnipeg to answer a payphone is almost as difficult Very Happy ).


Did you really? Shocked
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:07 pm
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Wishi-san
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Joined: 20 Oct 2003
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Location: UK. Southwards.

 		Now breathe Phaedra. That post came across amazingly aggressive (to me).
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:11 pm
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strife777
Guest


 		I'll speak in short sentences. Article was good. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. People involved in ARG's generally very newbie friendly. Example: Chat-room set up for new players in ILB's to ask questions. Go team. Woo publicitity.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:13 pm
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Phaedra
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Wishi-san wrote:
Now breathe Phaedra. That post came across amazingly aggressive (to me).


Sometimes, admittedly, I get overprotective.

But didn't the

Quote:
Is it possible that the ARG community has stopped engaging with the stranger outside, and failed to think about how to welcome them in?


question bother you the teensiest bit?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:20 pm
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maxim
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Joined: 18 Feb 2005
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 		The nature of the material lends itself to not bothering to explain it over and over. If you are in the middle of a movie and someone starts asking, "who's that?" or whatever, people do get irritated. For the most part, a lot is done by mods to make the fall down the rabbithole as smooth and painless as possible, but they don't have control over the other members' attitudes.

But as I said, it's just the nature of the game; it's very detailed and hard to cater to each and every level of knowledge.
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to discover it is a picture of yourself,
finishing that same puzzle."

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:24 pm
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Wishi-san
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Joined: 20 Oct 2003
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Location: UK. Southwards.
Phaedra wrote:
But didn't the

Quote:
Is it possible that the ARG community has stopped engaging with the stranger outside, and failed to think about how to welcome them in?


question bother you the teensiest bit?


Not particularly, it is his opinion as someone new to the community. Then I do my breathing technique, ponder both sides of the argument, and see whether he might have a point in some respects Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:26 pm
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