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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #77
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ToTheFading
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Beidah wrote:
but they forget that Hoody seems to have a magical disappearing hut out there.


This. I assumed they were taking her to Hoody's Moving Castle to try and protect her.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:40 am
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Marble Hornets
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Beidah wrote:
That's not quite what the video showed. People keep saying, "Why else were they taking her to the forest?", but they forget that Hoody seems to have a magical disappearing hut out there. Also, Jay believed Tim when he said he doesn't remember being Masky, so why would Jay be mad at this thing that Masky did when he isn't mad at Tim for attacking him?



Why would that be any less horrible? They dragged Jessica out of the hotel into a forest where the operator lurks, whatever they were doing was something they shouldn't have been. Bringing her to a "disappearing" hut that we've only seen Jay wake up in after memory loss is not safe, it's putting her in harms way.

Jay felt responsible for Jessica's disappearance when in reality it was Tim's immediate actions that caused her to get taken. Jay is overall responsible and he knows this, hence his line in the latest entry about it. He is trying to shift blame and Tim knew he would.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:00 am
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Marble Hornets
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ToTheFading wrote:
Beidah wrote:
but they forget that Hoody seems to have a magical disappearing hut out there.


This. I assumed they were taking her to Hoody's Moving Castle to try and protect her.


If the hut was that safe then hoody would be sleeping in it instead of where we've seen his mattress

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:01 am
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Amethyst.64
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SilentMedusa wrote:
@Amethyst: That's the problem. Now that we know for fact that Tim has and will lie if he thinks it's justified, everything he says and does is suspect.


I like this about his character, it gives him great depth and could become very interesting if he's lying to viewers, but I fail to see a motive to make it look like this happened after the tweet.

On the subject of the hoody hut, is there anything to suggest it isn't in Rosswood? Maybe hoody was taking her back to his place... Hopefully not in too creepy a manner

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:12 am
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DHawk314
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I think Masky took Jessica to Rosswood because going to Rosswood is like Masky's default state. The medical papers mention Tim ran away there as a kid, and in Entries #61 and #62 even though the hooded person induces the masky state, he doesn't take Tim to Rosswood. Tim just goes there himself and the hooded person follows him. Jay even mentions that the medical papers are what tipped Jay off as to where Tim went that night.

I think we're overestimating how much control the hooded person exerts over Tim. I think the hooded person induces the masky state, and directs Tim places in it, but I think Tim's more or less a loose cannon in that state, with attacking people being his first instinct.

In that entry, I think the hooded person knew Alex was catching up with Jay and Jessica, so he induced the masky state, possibly by taking Tim's meds like in Entry #61, and sent him into the hotel, with minimal instruction on where Jay and Jessica were, and to bring them down, and also probably to drop off Jay's safe combination. If you watch the entry, my theory fits best, in my opinion. The hooded person sees Tim take Jessica down but Tim walks right past him and goes out the door himself. The hooded person follows him outside, but Tim just keeps walking. The hooded person sort of looks around and then cuts to them in the woods. There's no evidence to suggest that Tim and the hooded person have some big plan on what to do in Rosswood. And if they do, why does Tim just walk away after he puts Jessica down. In fact, re-watching it, I'm hard pressed to find any point where Tim acknowledges that the hooded person exists.

It seems more likely to me that the hooded person was just sort of going along with it. He sent Tim up there, Tim took her down, Tim started wandering off, so he just sort of followed him until he put her down. Then he planned to leave with her when Alex showed up and all shit went to hell.

You can justify all of Masky's appearances this way really. Entry #18 the hooded person sets Tim on Jay and then they drop Jay off (In the woods no less; perhaps Tim is just drawn to woods in general?), Entry #19 the hooded person has Tim take Jay in a similar way, and Entry #35 he gives Tim the knife and sets him on Alex. Entry #45 he induces the masky state, Tim naturally goes to Rosswood, the hooded person leads Alex there and Tim attacks Alex while the hooded person just sort of watches. And then Entry #52 the hooded person just sort of sets Tim on Alex.

It's a heavily interpretable entry anyway, but this is a theory I came up with, and having re-watched the entry I've found it fits very well.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:48 am
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Starkley
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DHawk314 wrote:
I think Masky took Jessica to Rosswood because going to Rosswood is like Masky's default state. The medical papers mention Tim ran away there as a kid, and in Entries #61 and #62 even though the hooded person induces the masky state, he doesn't take Tim to Rosswood. Tim just goes there himself and the hooded person follows him. Jay even mentions that the medical papers are what tipped Jay off as to where Tim went that night.

I think we're overestimating how much control the hooded person exerts over Tim. I think the hooded person induces the masky state, and directs Tim places in it, but I think Tim's more or less a loose cannon in that state, with attacking people being his first instinct.

In that entry, I think the hooded person knew Alex was catching up with Jay and Jessica, so he induced the masky state, possibly by taking Tim's meds like in Entry #61, and sent him into the hotel, with minimal instruction on where Jay and Jessica were, and to bring them down, and also probably to drop off Jay's safe combination. If you watch the entry, my theory fits best, in my opinion. The hooded person sees Tim take Jessica down but Tim walks right past him and goes out the door himself. The hooded person follows him outside, but Tim just keeps walking. The hooded person sort of looks around and then cuts to them in the woods. There's no evidence to suggest that Tim and the hooded person have some big plan on what to do in Rosswood. And if they do, why does Tim just walk away after he puts Jessica down. In fact, re-watching it, I'm hard pressed to find any point where Tim acknowledges that the hooded person exists.

It seems more likely to me that the hooded person was just sort of going along with it. He sent Tim up there, Tim took her down, Tim started wandering off, so he just sort of followed him until he put her down. Then he planned to leave with her when Alex showed up and all shit went to hell.

You can justify all of Masky's appearances this way really. Entry #18 the hooded person sets Tim on Jay and then they drop Jay off (In the woods no less; perhaps Tim is just drawn to woods in general?), Entry #19 the hooded person has Tim take Jay in a similar way, and Entry #35 he gives Tim the knife and sets him on Alex. Entry #45 he induces the masky state, Tim naturally goes to Rosswood, the hooded person leads Alex there and Tim attacks Alex while the hooded person just sort of watches. And then Entry #52 the hooded person just sort of sets Tim on Alex.

It's a heavily interpretable entry anyway, but this is a theory I came up with, and having re-watched the entry I've found it fits very well.


I agree with this at least in regards to how Tim's "Masked" persona is a different entity from Hoody. Hoody and Masky are not the same. I mean, we've seen that after Tim doesn't get his pills for a while he dons the mask and just goes to the woods with no real discernable purpose - unless of course he/the Masky mind knew that Hoody was the one that took his pills and was looking for vengeance or something.

Anyway, Entry 73 shows that Hoody without pills still behaves in the same consistent manner. Tim without pills becomes more feral and combative. (Keeping mind that Tim's regular personality is pretty aggressive and impulsive a lot of the time too.)

However, a hole that I find in any theory of Tim's relationship to Hoody, or any theory that attempts to explain Timasky's behavior in Seasons 1 and 2, is that, after Entry #52, it's entirely probably that Tim's memory has been reconstructed/modified. Entry #71 shows us that the extent of The Operator's memory-modification abilities are pretty complex, in that not only can he cause people to forget entire events, but also influence their reconstruction of those missing memories.

It's possible that Seasons 1 and 2 Masky were "saner" than Season 3 Masky, due to the aftermath of whatever happened to Tim in Entry #52 after his struggle with Alex, or the aftermath of Entry #76. The theory of Timasky being the field operative while Hoody acts as the coordinator also explains most of Season 1 and 2. Prolonged exposure to The Operator however, messes with your perception of reality and consciousness, as we've seen happen to Jay, which may be what Tim has also experienced recently in chronologically present-day Season 3.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:29 pm
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geekgirlinthefedora
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Beidah wrote:
That's not quite what the video showed. People keep saying, "Why else were they taking her to the forest?", but they forget that Hoody seems to have a magical disappearing hut out there. Also, Jay believed Tim when he said he doesn't remember being Masky, so why would Jay be mad at this thing that Masky did when he isn't mad at Tim for attacking him?


Because Jay's proven himself to be very protective of Jessica ("But if he does try anything, I'm gonna make sure that Jessica gets out. Whatever it is that I have to do to make sure of that, I don't care." from Entry 52 comes to mind) while having an underdeveloped sense of self-preservation.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:34 pm
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Master of Octopi
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Man, I don't pay attention to Marble Hornets for a few weeks and I miss two videos.

I like a lot of the theories being chucked around here (mainly the serious ones, and the one about the Tweet being sent after Entry #77), and thought I might stir the pot a little.

First, on Tim keeping the camera:

Tim could've taken Jay's camera in an attempt to wean him off of his digital equivalent of a security blanket, true. It would fit well with his past behavior of acting for what he perceives to be his allies' own good. In short, it could be a form of well-intentioned idiocy.

Or, possibly, he could've taken it to prevent the Operator from homing in on Jay's presence. The Operator seems to be much more likely to appear when someone is filming.

Or, from on an out-of-game, storytelling perspective:
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
They removed the camera from Jay simply so that whatever happens to him happens off-screen. That way, the viewer only sees the aftermath, and must therefore get the rundown of events from a separate, not entirely trustworthy entity (likely, Jay). The possibilities of this as a narrative tool are virtually endless; Tim could return to find Jay missing, and Jay becomes a sort of menacing, almost Alex-like figure- his motives now unclear, his location unknown, his sanity in question, Tim must act to protect himself from his former ally. Or Jay could still be there, "Slender-wiped" or otherwise mentally incapacitated, necessitating more medically dubious treatment from Tim.

Or, and this idea has been growing in the back of my mind in the few hours since I've seen the entry: Hoody shows up, not to rescue Jay, but simply to talk to him. Hoody reveals his or her identity to Jay, and outlines his or her plans or motivations, and leaves him there with a job to do, some kind of MacGuffin for Jay to chase. He or she could explain so many of the events that had taken place which Jay has only been able to guess at for the past few years. The beauty of using this method to reveal Hoody's identity is that even if Jay comes right out and says who it is to Tim or the viewers, it will still be in doubt due to Jay's current mental state. Honestly, if I were writing the story, I would strongly consider doing it this way, mainly to mess with the minds of fans.


Someone mentioned Tim slipping Jay pills which weakened him to the Operator's influence several pages back. There was some debate as to this possibility (the pills clearly work for Hoody and Tim/ who says Tim was actually giving him any pills at all, et cetera) and I'd like to throw another possibility out there: who says Tim was giving Jay the same pills he was taking? He could have been slipping him simple Valium or something similar, while his own medication is something more along the lines of Clozaril (used to treat schizophrenia). Valium would explain Jay's fugue-like behavior when Tim arrives at the hotel in Entry #74. I don't like to think that Tim would do something like that, but without an explanation of what he meant by "out of it," and only judging on Jay's behavior in Entry #74, it's possible that Tim either encouraged or induced Jay's state of confusion and/or disarray. Again, I like to think that Tim is doing the right thing, and I don't think it's entirely likely that Tim would consciously hurt Jay, but it isn't outside the realm of possibility. (As an aside, I feel that a drug like Clozaril is a strong candidate for being Tim's pills, because they are extremely difficult to get. It isn't just a simple prescription; the patient, doctor and fulfilling pharmacy all need to join a national registry before the drug can be approved and administered, which would explain Tim needing to rely on existing caches of the drug rather than just getting a simple refill (and Hoody pilfering the pills when he gets the chance). Further, side effects of the drug include seizures and coughing. Alex doesn't seem to display these symptoms, so what if it isn't a sign of Slendersickness, but is actually a side effect of the drug, which he doesn't appear to take?)

The folder on the kitchen counter underneath Jay's flashlight piques my interest. The movement of the flashlight to rest upon it indicates that it was something Tim found or gathered from other sources. I just checked Entry #75 and made sure that it wasn't there when they first entered the house, so it seems to be that it could be important in some way. They rarely seem to make continuity errors, and too many important details have arisen from things on the periphery in the past to allow me to dismiss it entirely.

EDIT: The folder could be the "File" ToTheArk named his or her latest video after.

And finally, the gas cans. For some reason, I've never connected Tim with the fire in Jay's apartment in the past, nor the destruction of the hospital. Now that it has been pointed out, it seems almost too obvious that they're linked. Is it ever mentioned in the series what, exactly, happened to the hospital? Tim, as a patient, might've burned it down under the Operator's influence. That seems awfully disturbing to me.

Here endeth my thoughts on the Entry. Hopefully it won't be too long before we find out what happened.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:00 pm
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Sha Noran
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Master of Octopi wrote:
Further, side effects of the drug include seizures and coughing. Alex doesn't seem to display these symptoms, so what if it isn't a sign of Slendersickness, but is actually a side effect of the drug, which he doesn't appear to take?)


This intrigues me and makes a lot of sense... Except 43 I think it was, where Alex seeks out then approaches The Operator in the woods, however seems to be overpowered. He collapses to the ground and coughs up blood. If he isn't taking the medication, then your theory (at least this part of it regarding the pills) is bunk. Smile

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:29 am
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Master of Octopi
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Very valid point. I could shoehorn in some logic there (Alex could have tried taking the pills for a time, then stopped or some such) to support the idea, but it would make it too convoluted to be realistic, and would take far too much explanation to fit into the series. (Although a scene like that would be pretty funny, come to think of it; I can imagine Tim discovering that the pills were making him ill, and launching on a crusade against Big Pharma, the Operator forgotten (pun intended)). Considering that I can't recall any evidence of Alex ever taking the pills in the first place, it is pretty well debunked.

Well, it was a fun idea while it lasted. I still like this type of medication over anti-convulsants or other AED's, mainly due to the difficulty of obtaining it. If it was readily available, it wouldn't make much sense for Tim or Hoody to go to such lengths to obtain it when a quick walk to any pharmacy would do. Hell, why would Hoody need to steal a few measly pills from Tim when most pharmacies would have a reasonable supply of AED's behind the counter? One quick break-in could set him up for a year, if he wasn't afraid of security measures. (Considering that Hoody appears to be living pretty much on the lam anyway, it doesn't seem too much of a stretch that he or she would be willing to break into a pharmacy). There are other potential explanations for this, but none that seem to fit quite as nicely to me as of yet.

Damn.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:47 pm
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SilentMedusa
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For the record, I don't think Hoody and Masky intended for for Jessica to be hurt or killed. I do think they had a two-fold plan: get Jay and jess away from Alex, and then separate Jessica from Jay. That's why Masky just put Jessica down and then limped off as fast as he could; he had to get back to that hotel to scare the piss out of Jay and make him run off.

So, why did they want the two separated? to keep Jay focused. Think about it: if they'd escaped together, do you really think Jay would have kept investigating Alex, the Operator, and whatever else TTA steered him towards? No; he would have spent all his time and attention trying to help Jessica. So she had to be removed, for the sake of TTA's agenda. Most likely the plan was to drop her off somewhere far away, presumably far enough that Alex would have a hard time tracking her down again. He might even have given up completely, since it took so much of his focus to go after jay and Tim.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:47 pm
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TattooMagoo
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SilentMedusa wrote:
For the record, I don't think Hoody and Masky intended for for Jessica to be hurt or killed. I do think they had a two-fold plan: get Jay and jess away from Alex, and then separate Jessica from Jay. That's why Masky just put Jessica down and then limped off as fast as he could; he had to get back to that hotel to scare the piss out of Jay and make him run off.

So, why did they want the two separated? to keep Jay focused. Think about it: if they'd escaped together, do you really think Jay would have kept investigating Alex, the Operator, and whatever else TTA steered him towards? No; he would have spent all his time and attention trying to help Jessica. So she had to be removed, for the sake of TTA's agenda. Most likely the plan was to drop her off somewhere far away, presumably far enough that Alex would have a hard time tracking her down again. He might even have given up completely, since it took so much of his focus to go after jay and Tim.


Wow. I agree. Bravo!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:40 pm
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Sha Noran
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Master of Octopi wrote:
Very valid point. I could shoehorn in some logic there (Alex could have tried taking the pills for a time, then stopped or some such) to support the idea, but it would make it too convoluted to be realistic, and would take far too much explanation to fit into the series. (Although a scene like that would be pretty funny, come to think of it; I can imagine Tim discovering that the pills were making him ill, and launching on a crusade against Big Pharma, the Operator forgotten (pun intended)). Considering that I can't recall any evidence of Alex ever taking the pills in the first place, it is pretty well debunked.

Well, it was a fun idea while it lasted. I still like this type of medication over anti-convulsants or other AED's, mainly due to the difficulty of obtaining it. If it was readily available, it wouldn't make much sense for Tim or Hoody to go to such lengths to obtain it when a quick walk to any pharmacy would do. Hell, why would Hoody need to steal a few measly pills from Tim when most pharmacies would have a reasonable supply of AED's behind the counter? One quick break-in could set him up for a year, if he wasn't afraid of security measures. (Considering that Hoody appears to be living pretty much on the lam anyway, it doesn't seem too much of a stretch that he or she would be willing to break into a pharmacy). There are other potential explanations for this, but none that seem to fit quite as nicely to me as of yet.

Damn.


When we were discussing this a couple months ago, we came to the conclusion that they were probably anti-seizure meds. Anti-seizure meds work to control the electrical impulses in the brain that overload to cause seizures. It would make sense that these might function as a defense against TO due to his emp-like effect that scrambles both memories and nearby recording equipment.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:28 am
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Amethyst.64
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Sha Noran wrote:

When we were discussing this a couple months ago, we came to the conclusion that they were probably anti-seizure meds. Anti-seizure meds work to control the electrical impulses in the brain that overload to cause seizures. It would make sense that these might function as a defense against TO due to his emp-like effect that scrambles both memories and nearby recording equipment.

While I can't argue your logic and accuracy I can't help but feel this is all too logical. I just can't imagine trosephim sitting down and deciding this in series one. So although it's flawless, I feel like there should be something a little more supernatural going on.
But you may be right, we're just gonna have to wait and see. And if it's true, well done on the theory

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:45 am
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Starkley
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Amethyst.64 wrote:
Sha Noran wrote:

When we were discussing this a couple months ago, we came to the conclusion that they were probably anti-seizure meds. Anti-seizure meds work to control the electrical impulses in the brain that overload to cause seizures. It would make sense that these might function as a defense against TO due to his emp-like effect that scrambles both memories and nearby recording equipment.

While I can't argue your logic and accuracy I can't help but feel this is all too logical. I just can't imagine trosephim sitting down and deciding this in series one. So although it's flawless, I feel like there should be something a little more supernatural going on.


To be fair, there aren't many things that Trosephim DID plan out in Season 1.

That said, some of TTA's codes are particularly technical and involved. Plus, they've gone as far as to go and find university hospital medical documents and fill them out properly to give Tim a medical history, so I think there's definitely precedent for Trosephim being so precise and detailed with the way the story works.

Anyway, it's also worth noting that those are prescription meds, which means a doctor at some point had to prescribe them to Tim (he was getting them through official channels, as we saw early in Season 3). The most logical (really, the only logical) reason for this is that a doctor noted Tim's seizures, and provided him with anti-seizure meds.

It's not THAT far of a stretch when you really think about it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:27 am
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