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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #80
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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Ark is watching
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Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Posts: 82
Location: Nowhere, UK
AbyssalRook wrote:
The more I look at this future Jay thing, the more points that come up that it could fit into. And let me reiterate that just because something hasn't been overtly shown to happen consistently in a universe, it does NOT mean that it can not happen. Besides, it could be argued that Tim went back in time a little bit when he went to The Operating Room and came out relatively close to his car.


By that notion we can just as well theorize that Tim has the power of telekinesis if his Masky state listens to smooth jazz. Or that Jay projects a force field around himself whenever hes playing Beethoven on a pipe organ. Or that Alex is, in fact, a vampire from Twilight whose trying to find a way home. We've never seen any proof of these facts, but we also haven't seen Jay play Beethoven on a pipe organ, or watched Masky as he listens to smooth Jazz, or seen Alex stand in bright sun for a prolonged period, so it doesn't mean its not possible.

When he was in the Operating room, time was extremely slow, we can all agree that The operator can distort time to run faster or slower, but there is absolutely no proof of time going backwards. Every time we have seen Time manipulation its been from day to night.

There was Time inconsistancy in Tim's adventures in the slenderverse, but remember he was being teleported all over Rosswood and some sections of film were stretched out or repeating in a glitched manner so Occam's razor says to put it down to film damage instead of Time zipping back and forth.

Also, to save on a double post:
sickie wrote:
Hi
And Hoody making a stable time-loop (Jay being shot and thus future Jay being born) is impossible because if Jay needs to be shot for future Jay to even come to existence, how is it possible for future Jay to create such conditions for Jay to get shot if the future Jay doesn't exist in the first place? He was born after Jay was shot so... how come he could have made sure that present time Jay will get shot if he wasn't born yet?
But I still like the idea that Hoody let Alex free and wanted Jay and Alex to meet in Benedict hall, so he knew that Jay will probably get shot. This is pure speculation/guessing but one idea that crossed my mind is that maybe The Operator needs to be 'fed' (not literally, I think) a certain number of people, that's why Alex is sacrificing his ex friends to TO (unwillingly, as he seems more of a husk than a human right now). And maybe there's a cycle when TO is 'fed' enough sacrifices, he leaves our world alone for a time and than finds another group of people to fuck with. Hoody knows more about the situation it seems than anyone else in the series (except maybe Alex), us included, so maybe he knows about this and as a consequence he facilitated Jay's sacrifice in Benedict hall. He's trying just to save his ass from TO. BUT! That theory is illogical if we look how Hoody and others behaved earlier in the series.
That's it and bye bye Razz


First off, Welcome to unficition Smile.

Secondly, the whole Jay from the future is bagging on Time travel being possible in the series, which is actually never shown to be an Operator power.

I like the idea that TO needs sacrifices or people to parasite off so he can go home, fed, its actually an idea I've played around with for a while, buts its unlikely we will get a proper explanation of The operator due to word of god telling us they have no intention to do so out of fear of destroying what made The Operator scary.
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Vlog/ARGs Im currently watching: Marble Hornets, DarkHarvest00, Tribetwelve, EVERYMANHYBRID, CaughtNotSleeping, Keratin Garden,

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:38 pm
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ZargggModerator
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 		Again, as others have said, if backwards time travel were supposed to be a factor in this series, it would have been presented to us long before now. Yes, that might be meta-gaming the genre, but it's still very valid as far as good storytelling does. Just because The Operator has the ability to make a person or small group of people "lose" time, he does not necessarily have the ability to manipulate where in time someone can "come out". Those are two distinct concepts.

As to the insistence that TTA/Hoody knows Jay's passwords because he is really Jay from the future, keep in mind that TTA has posted many cryptographic puzzles, both in his videos and on Jay's Twitter, some of which we still have not solved. It's not a stretch to also assume that someone so versed in mathematics and cryptography would be able to gain access to Jay's accounts, either through social engineering, intuiting what kinds of passwords Jay would use, or brute force cracking.

AbyssalRook wrote:
The more I look at this future Jay thing, the more points that come up that it could fit into.

That's not the way we should be going about it. Theories should be changed to fit situations, rather than situations being picked to support a theory. The events in the series are the constant factors, not the theories we come up with.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:03 pm
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AbyssalRook
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Ark is watching wrote:

By that notion we can just as well theorize that Tim has the power of telekinesis if his Masky state listens to smooth jazz. Or that Jay projects a force field around himself whenever hes playing Beethoven on a pipe organ. Or that Alex is, in fact, a vampire from Twilight whose trying to find a way home. We've never seen any proof of these facts, but we also haven't seen Jay play Beethoven on a pipe organ, or watched Masky as he listens to smooth Jazz, or seen Alex stand in bright sun for a prolonged period, so it doesn't mean its not possible.

When he was in the Operating room, time was extremely slow, we can all agree that The operator can distort time to run faster or slower, but there is absolutely no proof of time going backwards. Every time we have seen Time manipulation its been from day to night.

There was Time inconsistancy in Tim's adventures in the slenderverse, but remember he was being teleported all over Rosswood and some sections of film were stretched out or repeating in a glitched manner so Occam's razor says to put it down to film damage instead of Time zipping back and forth.


That's why I said later in that post that there were other explanations that were more likely.

However, the bolded part is where I'm gonna have to disagree to an extent. I don't think he was being teleported all over Rosswood Park. I think The Operating Room is a copy of Rosswood, or at least the copy of Rosswood is a part of the Room. The blacktopped area where we saw Beardy's corpse was inside the Room.

I think Tim went into the Room once and got out of the Room once, as opposed to being slingshot in and out. The trip in distorted and damaged all of the film being taken before he entered (That all seems to be in the right order, just broken up).

However, the parts where he seems to be inside the Room are both fragmented and in the wrong order. That's not something that just damaging the film can do. There's still an order to it. We see one part, then we go to another part, then we go to a third part, then back to the first. If the film was going to simply be damaged, it would simply be damaged, it wouldn't be chopped up and moved around.

I think time inside the Room is fragmented and splintered and doesn't work the same way as it does in our world. THAT BEING SAID! Adding in the part where he jumped out before he left is unnecessary, as he could have just been transported through space, as we know TO is able to do. It's a much simpler explanation, and until we get something way more concrete I think it's the safer one to go to.

I'm not trying to pass off the time travel aspect as definite truth. What I'm saying is that it isn't something that should be 100% discounted and ignored just because we haven't seen it before. And the difference between this idea and your blatant strawman ideas is that this idea actually answers quite a few questions. Enough that it becomes a (rather unlikely) possibility. And nothing we're talking about here is any more than possibility to begin with. It's something to talk about while we wait, and who knows? It might lead to other revelations about this that no one had thought about before.

TL;DR - If you disagree, I don't blame you and that's fine. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. If you see something that makes it logically impossible, then post that up.

As for the time loop, it's been done before. Final Fantasy 1 did it. Garland was sent back in time by the four fiends, and then sent the four fiends forward in time to drain the crystals to send him back in time, so that he could send them forward in time to drain the crystals and send him back in time, etc. etc. etc. Doctor Who has done it a bunch. One of the times he met himself, meeting himself nearly caused a black hole that would destroy the earth. Luckily, his present (future) self knew how to counteract it and fixed the problem, even though his past self had no idea what was going on. He said he didn't "know" how to do it, but he "remembered" how to do it. He remembered being the past Doctor watching himself doing what he just did, and therefor knew how to do it.

I'm not saying it's a perfect explanation for it, but I'm saying there's precedent. A closed time loop is a thing that happens sometimes in games, literature, film, books, etc.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:25 pm
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sickie
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 		I'm not disputing time-loops per se, but future Jay had to be created by himself (he's his own father Smile) according to the proposed theory of Hoody (being future Jay) setting present Jay up to be shot so that future Jay will be born. That's the paradox I am telling you all about, if a third party would set Jay up to be shot and as a result the future Jay is born, than OK (but I still wouldn't buy this whole future Jay is Hoody/TTA/whatever theory), but if future Jay wasn't already born (because present Jay wasn't shot by that time) he can't free present Jay and direct him in the Benedict hall where the shooting was. I'm terrible at this so let me say it that way: it's impossible that future Jay was born as result of the shooting for which a future Jay is responsible.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:41 pm
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AbyssalRook
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sickie wrote:
I'm not disputing time-loops per se, but future Jay had to be created by himself (he's his own father Smile) according to the proposed theory of Hoody (being future Jay) setting present Jay up to be shot so that future Jay will be born. That's the paradox I am telling you all about, if a third party would set Jay up to be shot and as a result the future Jay is born, than OK (but I still wouldn't buy this whole future Jay is Hoody/TTA/whatever theory), but if future Jay wasn't already born (because present Jay wasn't shot by that time) he can't free present Jay and direct him in the Benedict hall where the shooting was. I'm terrible at this so let me say it that way: it's impossible that future Jay was born as result of the shooting for which a future Jay is responsible.


Well, yeah it is, that's a time loop. That's how they work. In the same way, I could say "It's impossible for Future Doctor to know how to stop the black hole as a result of seeing Future Doctor stopping the black hole." The thing with a time loop is that it doesn't make conventional sense, and it doesn't really have a "beginning", per se. It's two timelines meeting each other at different points, where one has an effect on the other that causes the loop to start over.

It's really confusing, frankly, the more you read into it.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:50 pm
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PsychoHippie
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 		First off, let me just say that the entry that reveals Hoody (or any other character) to be Future Jay (or Future ANYONE) will be the last I ever watch. That's shark-jumping material, IMHO.

Now that that's out of the way...I don't think Hoody meant for Jay to get shot. He's shown pretty clearly to be, if not on Jay's side. then at least NOT on Alex's. I think he would have saved Jay if he could. So why didn't he? Was he too busy leading TIM away from danger? We did see Tim hauling ass from Benedict Hall at a fair clip. Was he chasing Hoody, who was himself trying to lead Tim away from Alex? Maybe Jay was the only one who could confront Alex successfully? We've seen both Hoody and Masky (OK, mostly Masky) interfere with Alex's murder attempts before. Did Hoody underestimate how cracked Alex has become?

"Gee...I thought I'd have time. Alex usually takes 15-20 minutes to make sure his victim knows that everything is Jay's fault before he actually pulls the trigger..."

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:59 pm
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AbyssalRook
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PsychoHippie wrote:

Now that that's out of the way...I don't think Hoody meant for Jay to get shot. He's shown pretty clearly to be, if not on Jay's side. then at least NOT on Alex's. I think he would have saved Jay if he could. So why didn't he? Was he too busy leading TIM away from danger? We did see Tim hauling ass from Benedict Hall at a fair clip. Was he chasing Hoody, who was himself trying to lead Tim away from Alex? Maybe Jay was the only one who could confront Alex successfully? We've seen both Hoody and Masky (OK, mostly Masky) interfere with Alex's murder attempts before. Did Hoody underestimate how cracked Alex has become?


If he were chasing Hoodie, wouldn't Jay have seen Hoodie, too? I think it's better to assume that Tim saw Alex in there, and that Alex was chasing him. I'm not too sure if Hoodie particularly cared who won. Let's remember that Alex got that gun from somewhere, and he certainly didn't go buy a new one. I think that Hoodie gave him that gun, I think the outcome was the one that Hoodie was going for, but whether there are ulterior motives behind this I don't know.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:37 pm
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Miller
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 		Alrighty then, here is my up to date theory.
So Where to start, I guess from the beginning. Quadrant. "Am I the Third?" looking at that for me before entry 80 seemed to be talking about S1 sacrifices, but now post entry 80 I am thinking completely different from it. Ok so this theory only works if I you believe that something went wrong with season 1 sacrifices. Lets count the sacrifices after that though. 1) Amy, she turned on the slender cam and that started it all up again. 2) Jessica, she got taken to the ark or aka the slenderverse. and now 3) Jay, he was taken in entry 80. ( Bruce doesn't get counted, wrong place wrong time and he was dead, not alive like the others) I feel that the "am I the third?" is a reference to Jay being taken. Someone on here previously stated that the TTA channel could be uploading from the ark or aka slenderverse. I still find that hard to believe but I don't want to rule out all possibilites. So to move on, the first code that was given to us when decoded asked "how hands talked." and the previous code that followed seemed to be the given answer. What if that wasn't so? How big of a coincidence was it that after that came out that in entry 80 we actually see The Operator us his hands, when have we seen anything like that in any of the other entries? As for the paper that stated "Find Alex, Find the Ark" did anyone else notice how that seemed to happen in that order? Alex shot Jay, and now Jay is in the ark/slenderverse. This is the beginning of tying up loose ends it seems. Now were stuck with a Armed Maniac Alex, Sneaky Hoody, and frantic Tim. I hope, nay I pray that Tim turns masky in the near future and goes on a rampage, it's long over due. Well that is my somewhat theory about this whole situation and feel free to tear it up and what not Rolling Eyes

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:38 pm
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darmam0o
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Joined: 05 Jan 2013
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 		If the Operator takes people to his "Ark" where bacteria and decaying of corpses don't exist, maybe the underwater thing Tim went through in #65 was just a disinfection upon entering? That liquid doesn't necessarily have to be water.

Why is Hoodie always silent, anyway? Maybe he literally can't speak, like something really terrible happened during the filming of "Marble Hornets", and his tongue is cut off, or, more likely, part of his brain, responsible for speech, was damaged? His face can't be much disfigured though, because he was shown walking in public casually without his mask (#73). Maybe Hoodie wants to the Ark, because he THINKS that the Operator heals people by operating on them (it doesn't have to be true), but TO is rejecting him for some reason? Remember, he came from the OTHER side of the tunnel in #76, and doesn't seem so scared to hang around the Operator, especially if he was holding the camera for totheark footage in season 1, Brian's house and all.

Maybe Alex was attacking the crew members in 2006 to see who would be taken and who "never cured", the latter being his enemy for some reason.

Don't take it all too seriously, my head is so full of theories after this amazing couple of entries.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:44 pm
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AbyssalRook
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darmam0o wrote:
If the Operator takes people to his "Ark" where bacteria and decaying of corpses don't exist, maybe the underwater thing Tim went through in #65 was just a disinfection upon entering? That liquid doesn't necessarily have to be water.


The main problem I have with this is that the dead body that was found wasn't in the water. In fact, it seems to be quite far away from the water. Because of that, I'm kind of thinking that when people go in, they get dropped off at a random point. Tim just so happened to land in the water, and that provided enough of a shock to wake him up.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:50 pm
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TheOperator
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 		Re: Alrighty then, here is my up to date theory.
Miller wrote:
As for the paper that stated "Find Alex, Find the Ark" did anyone else notice how that seemed to happen in that order? Alex shot Jay, and now Jay is in the ark/slenderverse.


I agree with this. Hoody might have planned things that way, Alex attacking Jay would lead to TO taking Jay. Then with Jay in the ark, Hoody plans for Jay to find answers there and/or use him as bait for Tim to go in there too.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:20 pm
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twistedpuppet
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Zarggg wrote:
Again, as others have said, if backwards time travel were supposed to be a factor in this series, it would have been presented to us long before now. Yes, that might be meta-gaming the genre, but it's still very valid as far as good storytelling does. Just because The Operator has the ability to make a person or small group of people "lose" time, he does not necessarily have the ability to manipulate where in time someone can "come out". Those are two distinct concepts.

As to the insistence that TTA/Hoody knows Jay's passwords because he is really Jay from the future, keep in mind that TTA has posted many cryptographic puzzles, both in his videos and on Jay's Twitter, some of which we still have not solved. It's not a stretch to also assume that someone so versed in mathematics and cryptography would be able to gain access to Jay's accounts, either through social engineering, intuiting what kinds of passwords Jay would use, or brute force cracking.

AbyssalRook wrote:
The more I look at this future Jay thing, the more points that come up that it could fit into.

That's not the way we should be going about it. Theories should be changed to fit situations, rather than situations being picked to support a theory. The events in the series are the constant factors, not the theories we come up with.


Or, you know, Jay could just be incredibly fucking stupid and never actually changes his goddamn password. >:V I mean, he seriously never changed it from when he gave it to Tim and he was paranoid of Tim for several weeks.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:22 pm
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Animal
Decorated

Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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 		These posts get crazier as you get deeper into the pages. Let me repeat. THERE IS NOTHING SUPPORTING THE FUTURE JAY THEORY. The only evidence anyone is presenting is convenience and speculation.

To actually talk about the video, Tim was able to record inside of the ark, or slendyverse, I definitely think Jay would be able to as well. Only problem is he doesn't have a camera...TTA's hint of how do hands talk, by typing, could be a clue to jay that he could still communicate from the ark via keyboard, which i don't think he has on him...my only guess is that tim is going to end up in the slendyverse again, hopefully with the chestcam, and he will find jay laying next to bruce and jessics.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:44 pm
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LBfly
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Joined: 17 Nov 2012
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 		Yes finally someone also noticed its FIND ALEX FIND THE ARK not the opposite.
And am I the only one who truly thinks Hoody has everything under control? Maybe it was the audio that he put in Quadrant, directed to Jay/Tim, maybe its the I can not help message or even the appearance he made to Tim at the end of the entry. I truly believe Hoody has an agenda and knows exactly what he is doing since the "I got Alex" note.

Also, im totally into Gunny.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:12 pm
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rkmobius
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Joined: 07 Dec 2013
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granitemoth88 wrote:
awakeasaurusrex wrote:
Thoughts on where it's going from here:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I agree with the previous speculation that Entry 81 will consist of Tim's footage from his own exploration of the college. It's the logical thing to review if Tim is genuinely at a loss to how to proceed.

Entry 82 may be some form of confession where Tim levels with us to an extent he didn't with Jay. He might want some secrets to not die with him if Alex catches up with him. Or he might just want to be honest with someone before the end, even if that someone is just a crowd of strangers on the Internet.

It is going to be interesting to see how totheark reacts to this. In particular, I think it's possible that they may be more direct due to the necessity of keeping things from Jay going away - or because Tim is less of a master manipulatee than Jay was and therefore is less likely to respond to subtle string-pulling than he is to straight talk.

Oh, and I'm 99.99% sure Jay's dead and that the end is coming soon. This entry was a major shock and was clearly constructed to be so, with the opening implying that Jay uploaded it before the twist comes and Tim gets the camera. and if Jay isn't actually dead that'd lessen the blow. Even if he's alive, between the wound and being Slendernapped he's clearly not in a state where he's going to be recording many entries or doing much investigation in the near future and Tim is going to have to take over as the main protagonist; either way, Jay dropping out of the scenario like this feels like something which belongs in the endgame.


Agreed.
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
I was also thinking about the possibility of Tim getting ahold of Jay's laptop/external hard drive and maybe revealing some important footage that Jay wasn't sharing...


  • I'm really curious if Jay had his computer/hard drive during Entry 80. Unlikely he'd want to leave it behind from his perch, but he wasn't really thinking that clearly at the time.

    If he had his bag with him, and he got transported to the Slendyverse, it's possible we'll eventually get to see some footage from there if he had more than one camera (perhaps a surreal Skype session with Tim from the Ark?).

    If he left it behind, Alex, Hoody, or Tim could go grab it. If Tim has it, we're more likely to see footage on there that Jay has not shared in an Entry. I know they're headed toward the end, but even one or two Entries of this (more tapes!!) would be fascinating to see things Jay didn't want us to see.

  • Agree with the idea that 81 will be Tim's recent adventure. Then it gets murky. I'd hope that 82 is Tim just explaining what the heck is going on, from his perspective, either for posterity, prior to doing something dangerous, or to try to bargain with Hoody or Alex. Then possibly a couple entries from Jay's hard drive. Then a run-in with Hoody, where there's either more clues or a true unmasking.

  • Speaking of, the dude covers his face, always. The two implied theories I've seen on here are either that: he's disfigured (unlikely), or he's someone that Jay/Alex/Tim all know and keeping that identity from them is crucial to further whatever Hoody's plans might be. If it's Brian/Seth, it's kind of weird that hiding his identity is so important to him. If it's future Jay, the need to hide makes more sense, but it also opens up various cans of worms, detailed extensively here. Those cans would be explainable, and I like that theory, but it's a stretch. Yet so is him being Brian or Seth.

    Makes the most sense, plot-wise, for him to be someone who hasn't been on camera before, though that would be really anti-climactic. When was the last time the camera showed a normal face that wasn't Tim, Alex, Jessica, Amy, Sarah, Brian, or Seth?

  • The idea that some old footage of Jay that he doesn't remember (like getting the tapes and then getting beat up) is Future Jay is fascinating, but there are enough of them that Future Jay would have to be very well coordinated during the filming of Marble Hornets. And Alex would have to want to reluctantly give the tapes to Jay (but NOT Future Jay), and be willing, even back then, to go through a lot to do so.

  • Agree with those on here saying Future Jay is a fascinating, mildly plausible theory that probably won't be true. But you just know that if that mask comes off and it's Jay, you're going back and watching every single Entry and TTA video a few times each! If it's Brian, that's less likely.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:37 pm
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