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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[VIDEO] Entry #83
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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SilentMedusa
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Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 904

 		I talk too much, but I can't help it; I think of something and want to share it so I can hear what other people think.

In this entry, Tim is transported to the hospital, and says "I don't belong here; why'd you bring me here?!". This reminds me of a thought I've had since I first saw #66: that maybe Tim was hallucinating at the time. See, he says himself (in #66) that he doesn't remember what his hallucinations looked like; he just thought after he saw the tapes Jay got from Alex that maybe that thing in the background was what he saw, meaning he wasn't hallucinating at all. That sounded to me like a desperate grab at "proof" that he wasn't really crazy. Maybe dropping Tim back in that hospital in #83 was a way of saying "no Tim, you do belong here". Maybe there really is something wrong with Tim, something that wasn't a result of contact with TO.

And just to contradict what I just said, another statement from Tim is bothering me. In #66 Tim is talking about his hallucinations, and says the following: "part of me knew they weren't real, but knowing that didn't make them go away. Maybe I just didn't want them to at the time." That bolded line raises some red flags for me. He was so scared of what he was seeing that he was literally clawing at the walls and screaming, trying to get away from it (not only does he tell us that, we see it for ourselves in #65). The idea that he "didn't want them to go away" rings incredibly false to me. I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I wanted to put the thought out there.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:27 pm
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lonsumtravlr
Entrenched

Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
SilentMedusa wrote:
In #66 Tim is talking about his hallucinations, and says the following: "part of me knew they weren't real, but knowing that didn't make them go away. Maybe I just didn't want them to at the time." That bolded line raises some red flags for me. He was so scared of what he was seeing that he was literally clawing at the walls and screaming, trying to get away from it (not only does he tell us that, we see it for ourselves in #65). The idea that he "didn't want them to go away" rings incredibly false to me. I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I wanted to put the thought out there.


I think I see what you're getting at, but there're a lot of reasons that the statement could be "false." I don't think Tim's lying ('cause I can't see what he'd be lyting about) or just trying to tell Jay what he wants to hear. Tim could be saying out loud something that he wants to believe somehow or that makes him feel better, as if he knows he's struggling with mental ill--which I think may be true even if it turns out The Operator's the main cause of his travails. The flag it raises for me is the child abuse flag again--it's as if he's blaming himself in some way other than for maybe somehow bringing TO into the others' lives. As if he sees himself as somehow broken or defective or bad in a way that he naturally attracts trouble. I'm not a psychologist, mind you, but I've seen before where someone who has been abused repeatedly comes to internalize the abuse in such a way that he'll blame himself for everything and anything, even if his own agency in causing or willingness to accept some sort of detrimental event or presence is scant at best.

Does this make sense at all? I don't know. Trying to build a bit off what you wrote, Medusa. Also don't mean to hypergeneralize about mental illness in any way. I've plenty of friends with such issues, some quite severe (sans the eldritch abomination and the disruption of A/V equipment), so I don't mean to portray it in a disrespectful way.

The dialogue at the start of Entry #66 rings a bit false to me, too, but for two different reasons. One, it seems to be the entry in which Troy forgot even to cold read off a script (he really sounds as if he's just feeding Tim lines--season three has some of his worst acting till Jay's last few episodes on screen, especially #82; I'm not saying Troy can't act... I am saying that I think his weakest acting came about midway through this final season). Two, and maybe it's just me, but it seems that the dialogue was not only not run through a few times with a sense for realism (which is rather surprising, because despite the lack of cursing that others have noticed on the boards and that is quite prominent in some of the THAC shorts) but also written as if to give Tim a chance to chew a little scenery. And that hospital's kinda grimy, so I don't know why anyone'd want to chomp down on those walls.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:43 pm
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SilentMedusa
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Joined: 04 Jul 2013
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 		Well, it had been speculated many times here that Tim Might've been abused...

I don't think Tim was lying exactly, just... there's something going on there, and even he might not recognize it.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:33 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England

 		No, I think you're right. Tim may not be aware, or at least fully aware, of things like that.

I didn't necessarily get the sense that, for example, Hoody was calling him a LIAR on the folder containing the medical records in Entries #60 and #60.5 (I think there's consensus that this referred to Tim and not to Jay or anyone else, right?) because Tim was consciously trying to evade suspicion or throw Jay off. To be honest, that message reminds me of when I was "fortunate" to be one of four student renters in a condo (this was on the surface a very good and rare deal for Greater Boston, even though the building turned out to be the building from Polanski's The Tenant plopped down near Harvard Square), and the owners, who hated renters, left harrassing messages (strongly resembling Hoody's writing, though in deep, blood red) all over the common areas about the particular "LAZY [name of renter] WHO MAKES LIFE DIFFICULT FOR ALL OF US" when we'd forget to take our mail up on occasion. I got the sense that he was calling attention to Tim saying something that happened to be untrue, even if he wasn't aware of it. I don't think Tim's consciously trying to do a lot of what happened (regardless of whether he remembers anything at all about what he does in his Masky state). I've seen some theories trying to paint him as a lying manipulator who is the real villain of the series, and I can see where they're coming from (it's easy to see at first how someone may interpret everything that way).

I do think there's something to the abuse theory, though that's really tangential at best to the narrative of MH, I think. And sorry if I took this at all off topic.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:02 pm
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TheOperator
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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 		I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet but when Tim is taken to his hospital room in this entry and shouts "what am I doing here? I don't belong here, why did you bring me here!?" I'm pretty positive he reverted to his child self temporarily and was yelling that at his mother. Otherwise he got really mad at The Operator for teleporting him back there as his adult self, which I don't think is likely, I think Tim had bigger things to worry about. So that rather heartbreaking scene infers he had a lot of anger towards his mother for bringing him to the hospital. In #66 we also know she "was never really around to ask," it does lend some support to the theory that Tim was abused, even if that abuse was simple negligence.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:14 am
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veronica2199
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 26
Location: Hell.

 		Ok, so I noticed something.
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The fire was picked up on camera.

Because of Entry 60.5, we know Tim had hallucinations. But the thing was actually /happening,/ and Tim appeared to be pretty freaked out. What if TO feeds off of emotions/memories, so it causes his victims to re-live them? Edit: I keep realizing things right after I post. Then that's why Alex turns into a total asshole, it's because TO is influencing him and using him for...eating isn't the right word but I don't know what else to call it..."eating" his emotions.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:05 am
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knightmare
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Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 109
veronica2199 wrote:
Ok, so I noticed something.
Spoiler (Rollover to View):
The fire was picked up on camera.

Because of Entry 60.5, we know Tim had hallucinations. But the thing was actually /happening,/ and Tim appeared to be pretty freaked out. What if TO feeds off of emotions/memories, so it causes his victims to re-live them? Edit: I keep realizing things right after I post. Then that's why Alex turns into a total asshole, it's because TO is influencing him and using him for...eating isn't the right word but I don't know what else to call it..."eating" his emotions.


I think that TO feeds on fear. It's had ample opportunities to seriously harm Jay and Tim, but instead it just seems intent on instilling fear in all those that encounter it.

This goes back to the scene with Alex and Amy. He completely get Marble Hornets (the IG student film) out of his mind and is living happily with Amy. Then, when she breaks out the camera, it brings back those feelings of dread that he had while encountering TO while filming. He reacts very strangely, which in turn scares Amy. His fear of TO coming back, combined with Amy's fear of Alex's strange reaction was enough fear to bring TO to them.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:42 am
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DarKWolF90
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Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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 		Feeding on fear would just be too cliché for marble hornets IMO.

How can we assume he even needs to feed off anything anyway?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:07 am
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lonsumtravlr
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
DarKWolF90 wrote:
Feeding on fear would just be too cliché for marble hornets IMO.

How can we assume he even needs to feed off anything anyway?


Why do you say cliche?

I'm not sure about that, but it would certainly make it seem too much like Twin Peaks. But, yes, you may be right--TO may not need to feed off of anything. But the "feeding off fear" notion does help speak to motive.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:16 am
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mknote
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Joined: 01 Oct 2011
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MarbleHead wrote:
All right so... here's a 3 AM stretch for you guys that I hope I don't get run over for.

Just rewatched hoody giving Tim that haymaker a couple of times in a row, particularly freezing the image at 5:01 and 5:02. I'm on my laptop and using Youtube, so I'm not 100% confident but... what are those pants Hoody's wearing? And when Hoody turns to lift their leg to go through that window....

Could Hoody be a girl?


I'm quoting a quite old post here because this is the post that inspired a revelation in me. It could very well be wrong, but...

There was someone who pointed out that it looked like Hoody had breasts at some point in Entry 83, and I thought it was interesting. Nevertheless, I dismissed it because of the evidence that Hoody is in fact male. After three weeks of not checking the thread, I came back to catch up, and this post caused a lightbulb to go off in my head, and an idea came up that I had to share. I haven't seen anyone else post it (anywhere, really), but I may have missed it. Anyway, here goes:

What if Hoody is Sarah?

And Brian?

And Seth?

It's been speculated (by Jay, even) that TTA is multiple people, so why can't that apply to Hoody as well? It isn't just Hoody and Tim, it's all the Hoodies and Tim that make up TTA. Other than never seeing more than one onscreen at a time, I can't think of any indication that multiple people haven't donned the hood and jacket.

Further, if there are multiple Hoodies, perhaps we haven't seen the same one each time. Maybe we saw a male one earlier and a female one here. Maybe the (supposed) quote that we shouldn't take note about how there are several actors playing Hoody because of an out of universe production reason, but because they are actually different people in universe!

It explains the discrepancies we've noticed in past entries in universe and it's plausible, at the least. I think it warrants at least consideration. I will admit, though, that it's probably wrong and it won't pan out that way, but speculating is part of the fun.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:56 pm
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TheManPF
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Joined: 29 Oct 2012
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 		I think it would be a little far fetched to think that all three of them have the exact same hoodie

Or, if all of them wore the same thing, it'd be kind of pointless for two of them to sit down and do nothing while the other one does all the stuff, just for the sake of not showing that they're multiple people

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:31 pm
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DarKWolF90
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Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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 		Well WHAT IF... (DUN DUN DUUUN) Hoody is the spiritual incarnation of the people TO has taken/killed/slendynapped/vanished trying to get back to the real world by using the ark. Or better yet, they can't but wanna stop TO and can only help Jay/Tim and not take direct action because it would interfere with their physical manifestation (Soul reaver innuendo!) as hoody?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:53 pm
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Master of Octopi
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Joined: 05 Sep 2013
Posts: 115
DarKWolF90 wrote:
Well WHAT IF... (DUN DUN DUUUN) Hoody is the spiritual incarnation of the people TO has taken/killed/slendynapped/vanished trying to get back to the real world by using the ark. Or better yet, they can't but wanna stop TO and can only help Jay/Tim and not take direct action because it would interfere with their physical manifestation (Soul reaver innuendo!) as hoody?


I like the general idea, but I think it would be cool if Hoody can hear the people the Operator has taken. He's still a person, but he's burdened with doing what is necessary to whatever it is those people need. Tim likely could hear it too when he was Masky, but the pills block it out. And Hoody needs those pills whenever the voices get too loud. It would go a long way in explaining his erratic behavior.

Probably not what's taken and is taking place, but I could dig that as Hoody's motivation.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:35 am
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lonsumtravlr
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
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Master of Octopi wrote:
I like the general idea, but I think it would be cool if Hoody can hear the people the Operator has taken. He's still a person, but he's burdened with doing what is necessary to whatever it is those people need. Tim likely could hear it too when he was Masky, but the pills block it out. And Hoody needs those pills whenever the voices get too loud. It would go a long way in explaining his erratic behavior.


No offense, but that sounds like a very poor attempt to rip-off Scanners.

EDIT: On the other hand, I wonder what a Cronenberg-guest-directed MH episode would be like...

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:46 am
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TheOperator
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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mknote wrote:
I'm quoting a quite old post here because this is the post that inspired a revelation in me. It could very well be wrong, but...

There was someone who pointed out that it looked like Hoody had breasts at some point in Entry 83, and I thought it was interesting. Nevertheless, I dismissed it because of the evidence that Hoody is in fact male. After three weeks of not checking the thread, I came back to catch up, and this post caused a lightbulb to go off in my head, and an idea came up that I had to share. I haven't seen anyone else post it (anywhere, really), but I may have missed it. Anyway, here goes:

What if Hoody is Sarah?

And Brian?

And Seth?

It's been speculated (by Jay, even) that TTA is multiple people, so why can't that apply to Hoody as well? It isn't just Hoody and Tim, it's all the Hoodies and Tim that make up TTA. Other than never seeing more than one onscreen at a time, I can't think of any indication that multiple people haven't donned the hood and jacket.

Further, if there are multiple Hoodies, perhaps we haven't seen the same one each time. Maybe we saw a male one earlier and a female one here. Maybe the (supposed) quote that we shouldn't take note about how there are several actors playing Hoody because of an out of universe production reason, but because they are actually different people in universe!

It explains the discrepancies we've noticed in past entries in universe and it's plausible, at the least. I think it warrants at least consideration. I will admit, though, that it's probably wrong and it won't pan out that way, but speculating is part of the fun.


That note from Jay that the TTAs might be worked on by different people is interesting, it takes notes of differing styles and the styles differ during time periods in which Masky probably wasn't active as well. The OOG build differences wouldn't be an issue any more if they do end up being multiple Hoodies.

Unfortunately the main problem with this is as far as Hoody taking direct action - that is, showing up in person in the entries - it doesn't seem that it's more than person taking these actions. Their behaviour, style and current standing (EG. hiding from Alex, searching for pills... and if they're all Hoody, how could they share such a sparse amount of pills?) is basically consistent through all of Season 3. Therefore the most we can expect in terms of multiple people running TTA is that Hoody is a single member and there are other, offscreen members but even that seems unlikely as why would they be kept offscreen for so long?

DarKWolF90 wrote:
Well WHAT IF... (DUN DUN DUUUN) Hoody is the spiritual incarnation of the people TO has taken/killed/slendynapped/vanished trying to get back to the real world by using the ark. Or better yet, they can't but wanna stop TO and can only help Jay/Tim and not take direct action because it would interfere with their physical manifestation (Soul reaver innuendo!) as hoody?


Aside from their plot armor allowing them to escape dangerous situations, gain the advantage over any enemies and be in the same place as the main characters at the right time, Hoody seems like a normal human with normal weaknesses, who just happens to be very sneaky and crafty. Entries like 68, 73, 79 and 83 where Hoody is put in vulnerable spots very much support this. When cornered, Hoody tends to just run and in those entries especially, seems quite panicked about it.

And also, if Hoody was a spiritual incarnation, there would probably be even more variety in the build, to reflect all their souls. I have actually considered this theory before but not seriously. Too many holes.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:11 am
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