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Poll

Does Entry #84 confirm Hoody's Identity?

Yes, Hoody is Brian.
77%
 77%  [ 64 ]
No, it's a misdirect.
10%
 10%  [ 9 ]
Undecided.
12%
 12%  [ 10 ]

Total Votes : 83
 

 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
Does Entry #84 confirm Hoody's identity?
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
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twistedpuppet
Entrenched


Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 950
Location: New avatar based on art made by @TheGinky for me for my birthday.
Lithp wrote:
twistedpuppet wrote:
Since when is "show, don't tell" a rule? These are talkies, honey. We haven't done silent films in almost a century.


The references date it back to at least 1999, but it's probably always been around, in some form or another.

Seriously, read that. Basically no published writer actually believes that the principle is bullshit. The major consensus is unimportant things should be told & important things should be shown.


Ok, well, I don't see how entry 84 "violates" this stupid "rule." You were shown the clue. It's no one's fault but the vocal nay sayers of this forum that caused Troy and company to have Tim say in the entry text that the hoody Brian was wearing was the same as the one worn by the hooded figure. If it weren't for the bullshit argument over the goddamn pipe in entry 56, they wouldn't have to ram it down your throats that they were revealing Hoody's identity. They could just show Brian wearing the hoody, and we could all speculate on how it's the same hoody. But because a very vocal group on these very forums decided it wasn't a pipe, but a stick, we've all got to deal with some subpar writing.

You want to bitch about some stupid fucking rule about "show, don't tell", go back and read the thread for entry 56, and then throw your stupid rule book out the window. Telling a story in a visual format is all about trying to tell the story in a way that the audience gets what the narrator is trying to say. Problem is, an extremely vocal part of the audience doesn't pay enough attention. They have to have it spelled out for them. Subtlety is too hard to comprehend for this very vocal group.

We got the reveal we deserved.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:18 pm
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knightmare
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Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 109
twistedpuppet wrote:
We got the reveal we deserved.


But not the one we need.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:45 pm
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lonsumtravlr
Entrenched

Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
Lithp wrote:
twistedpuppet wrote:
Since when is "show, don't tell" a rule? These are talkies, honey. We haven't done silent films in almost a century.


The references date it back to at least 1999, but it's probably always been around, in some form or another.

Seriously, read that. Basically no published writer actually believes that the principle is bullshit. The major consensus is unimportant things should be told & important things should be shown.


It's certainly older than 1999. I first heard it in the mid-nineties when I took creative writing. And it's a rule for good fiction, most literary nonfiction, and poetry (though it hasn't stopped a lot of the latter of the past two decades from seeming like pages ripped from bad high school journals). it doesn't quite work for drama and cinema beyond a degree, but that's because they're visual and oral as well as written genre. With written literature the brain has to compensate for a lot that's not present.

I'm not saying it doesn't apply to drama and cinema--just that it works differently. There's obviously such a thing as too much telling--but in the case of a serial, you really have to see how at least a story arc ends before you can really make the "should've shown, not told" call. In another couple of entries, when we know whether this really was The Reveal or, even if it is, whether there wasn't some greater significance to what seems to many to be a flat entry, then I think the call can be made with more certainty.


EDIT: Anyway, I think the substance of the kvetch here is really the opposite of telling, not showing. It's that we've been shown soooooo much, that when we're finally led to believe that we're gonna be told what we've long wanted to be told--... Brian in a pristine hoody and Tim's caption cards in Entry #84.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:39 pm
Last edited by lonsumtravlr on Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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lonsumtravlr
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
twistedpuppet wrote:
Telling a story in a visual format is all about trying to tell the story in a way that the audience gets what the narrator is trying to say.


Yeah, but what about when there are multiple fuckin' narrators (or in this case, narrators, cinematographers, directors, and editors)?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:41 pm
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058
Quote:
Ok, well, I don't see how entry 84 "violates" this stupid "rule."


What kind of argument is "it's stupid"? Ernest Hemmingway & Chuck Palnuck are morons who don't know what the fuck they're talking about? If not, then what? What exactly is wrong with the principle of "show the important shit occurring, don't just mention it in passing"?

Quote:
This isn't really ha If it weren't for the bullshit argument over the goddamn pipe in entry 56, they wouldn't have to ram it down your throats that they were revealing Hoody's identity. They could just show Brian wearing the hoody, and we could all speculate on how it's the same hoody. But because a very vocal group on these very forums decided it wasn't a pipe, but a stick, we've all got to deal with some subpar writing.


This is completely irrelevant, because even if that argument IS why they decided to have Tim point out Brian's hoody--which I've never heard beyond speculation--Brian still should have been shown either being unmasked or somehow "becoming" Hoody. It's certainly not true that they didn't have the chance to do that.

I said it was a pipe too, but I'm still not sure why you still consider this an issue. Like most ludicrous arguments, I'd forgotten about it a month or so after it finally ended.

Quote:
There's obviously such a thing as too much telling--but in the case of a serial, you really have to see how at least a story arc ends before you can really make the "should've shown, not told" call. In another couple of entries, when we know whether this really was The Reveal or, even if it is, whether there wasn't some greater significance to what seems to many to be a flat entry, then I think the call can be made with more certainty.


Don't agree. There's not much chance that this will be turned around in a way that is not at least significantly unsatisfying, & even if it does happen, being wrong has little impact. I don't think I need to "see everything" to make a call on the current state of affairs, & it would also be beyond the point of relevance by that time.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:05 pm
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twistedpuppet
Entrenched


Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 950
Location: New avatar based on art made by @TheGinky for me for my birthday.

 		My problem with that stupid rule is that they did that and you guys were still not satisfied. The ONLY reason they had Tim fucking say what he said in the entry text is because of the huge fucking bullshit argument that occurred with entry 56. If that vocal part of the audience hadn't been so fucking stupid as to mistake an obvious pipe/piece of rebar for a fucking stick, they wouldn't have to spell it out for that more ignorant part of the audience.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:12 pm
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		You do realize that the outtro text isn't the only problem, right?

Other than that, even if that IS why they did it, which I still don't believe, dumbing down your material is pretty obviously a bad idea. So, in that case, I hope they learned that it doesn't solve anything.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:50 pm
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Malckeor
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Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Posts: 246
Location: Turkeyland, Land of Gobblers

 		Dear, sweet Lithp...do you remember...the way to the Great Valley?

Sweet, dear Pupmaster of Twisty Puppet Twisting...do you know who Bartok is? You should travel to the Tribe Twelve thread and have a discussion with the guy regarding Marble Hornets. I'm sure you two would get along FAMOUSLY. Just give me a moment to grab my CHOCOLATE MILK.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:09 pm
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lonsumtravlr
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
Lithp wrote:

lonsumtravlr wrote:
There's obviously such a thing as too much telling--but in the case of a serial, you really have to see how at least a story arc ends before you can really make the "should've shown, not told" call. In another couple of entries, when we know whether this really was The Reveal or, even if it is, whether there wasn't some greater significance to what seems to many to be a flat entry, then I think the call can be made with more certainty.


Don't agree. There's not much chance that this will be turned around in a way that is not at least significantly unsatisfying, & even if it does happen, being wrong has little impact. I don't think I need to "see everything" to make a call on the current state of affairs, & it would also be beyond the point of relevance by that time.


I agree with you that it likely won't be turned around in a satisfactory way. I'm just saying I think the ultimate satisfactoriness or unsatisfactoriness of the entry can be better determined in the light of the overall series. I didn't mean to say that you shouldn't be dissatisfied with Entry #84 when you are.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:48 am
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SilentMedusa
Entrenched

Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 904

 		I just realized that I voted, but never said anything here. So I'll officially state that for me, yes, #84 confirms Brian is/was Hoody. As for the ongoing discussion, I did find this reveal dissatisfying, for reasons I explained in the other thread.

I just hope that we get a new video soon, and it's more satisfying than this one.

That being said, this was still a video I liked. I've wanted to see more of Brian for a long time, so it was good to get more insight into the kind of guy he was. It was also good to see the dynamic between him and Tim, and I'll confess to liking this shy, awkward, pre- Marble Hornets Tim. And it's always good to be reminded that Alex wasn't always a monster. It's easy to forget that he was an innocent victim too, in the beginning. I hope we learn how he ended up apparently taking orders from TO, and why no one else did.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:16 am
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Minato
Boot


Joined: 03 Mar 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Ark

 		Tim unmasked Hoody. We saw static mess, but Tim probably could see him fine.

He basically said that Brian is Hoody so... confirmed for me.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:26 am
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ledzepfilm
Entrenched


Joined: 18 Nov 2012
Posts: 900

 		While I do agree that Brian is Hoody, Tim said that he had no way of knowing that he was Brian.
_________________
You should be here: www.tinychat.com/thehoodyhub

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:36 am
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Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		It IS pretty interesting that Tim claims that he didn't know that it was Brian. Maybe there's another mask underneath that mask.

It would be hilarious if that is true & it's the skull mask.

Malckeor wrote:
Dear, sweet Lithp...do you remember...the way to the Great Valley?

Sweet, dear Pupmaster of Twisty Puppet Twisting...do you know who Bartok is? You should travel to the Tribe Twelve thread and have a discussion with the guy regarding Marble Hornets. I'm sure you two would get along FAMOUSLY. Just give me a moment to grab my CHOCOLATE MILK.


...What?

Quote:
It's easy to forget that he was an innocent victim too, in the beginning. I hope we learn how he ended up apparently taking orders from TO, and why no one else did.


I've actually never believed, at any point, that Alex is malicious. I've always thought that he believes that he's doing the right thing, he's just batshit crazy.

Quote:
I agree with you that it likely won't be turned around in a satisfactory way. I'm just saying I think the ultimate satisfactoriness or unsatisfactoriness of the entry can be better determined in the light of the overall series. I didn't mean to say that you shouldn't be dissatisfied with Entry #84 when you are.


Well, something that I didn't really specify is that I'm usually an advocate of the "wait & see" approach, but it also depends on the history of the series. In this case, there have been so many anticlimaxes already, so it doesn't seem like a stretch to say that this is just one more.

Though I'm less clear on whether or not Hoody will continue to figure into the plot.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:24 am
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gennerx
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 359
Location: 90° N, 0° W
ledzepfilm wrote:
While I do agree that Brian is Hoody, Tim said that he had no way of knowing that he was Brian.


I'm convinced his memory was wiped of that event.
Maybe he subconsciously knew it would get wiped again if he unmasked Hoody a second time, which is why he didn't.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:55 am
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lonsumtravlr
Entrenched

Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
gennerx wrote:
ledzepfilm wrote:
While I do agree that Brian is Hoody, Tim said that he had no way of knowing that he was Brian.


I'm convinced his memory was wiped of that event.
Maybe he subconsciously knew it would get wiped again if he unmasked Hoody a second time, which is why he didn't.


Could be. But it's still too convenient (read: "cheap").

Also, he didn't get the chance to unmask Hoody either of the other two chances in that entry. TO showed up just before he could do it, and then at the end he was booted from the Slendyverse (whatever that liminal space is being called now) right before he could lift the mask. Those teases I felt were respectable and respectful of the audience, even if they were a bit conventional teases. But after the second viewing of Entry #83, the blue flare really made me mad.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:20 pm
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