Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
  

The time now is Fri Nov 15, 2024 4:42 am
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)		 View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
[THEORY] The coughing represents smoke inhalation
Moderators: Giskard, JKatkina, Zarggg
View previous topicView next topic
Page 3 of 4 [46 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Author Message
JAL13
Decorated


Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Posts: 269
Location: Between Realms
Marble Hornets wrote:
Ristar wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
Cigarettes could make you cough up blood, but again, not nearly as much as Tim has been shown coughing up. Alex coughing up blood also debunks that theory since he doesn't smoke.


It strikes me as weird that this theory is based on smoke instead of fire, i dont know why



We've seen fire a handful of times, never really directly linked to the operator himself just loosely associated, and he surely doesn't have any power to produce fire out of thin air or we'd have seen it already


And yet we have evidence that says he can produce gas or smoke? People cough for more reasons than gas/smoke. Maybe a virus/sickness? Spores? Who knows. You limit your options too quickly.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:44 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		I'm going to say that this idea sounds neat on paper, but falls short upon further inspection. Coughing is pretty much the only symptom of Operatorsickness that can be linked to smoke. Everything else has to be explained as "something else." Now, this COULD work if all of the symptoms are relate to events in Tim's past, because then the coughing could be related to the burning hospital, the seizures & hallucinations to his own, the personality changes to his apparent DID, etc. But then this would raise the question of why the Operator mimics the events of Tim's life, while a simpler explanation would be that all of Tim's symptoms are simply another case of Operatorsickness.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:21 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Marble Hornets
Entrenched


Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 946
JAL13 wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
Ristar wrote:
Marble Hornets wrote:
Cigarettes could make you cough up blood, but again, not nearly as much as Tim has been shown coughing up. Alex coughing up blood also debunks that theory since he doesn't smoke.


It strikes me as weird that this theory is based on smoke instead of fire, i dont know why



We've seen fire a handful of times, never really directly linked to the operator himself just loosely associated, and he surely doesn't have any power to produce fire out of thin air or we'd have seen it already


And yet we have evidence that says he can produce gas or smoke? People cough for more reasons than gas/smoke. Maybe a virus/sickness? Spores? Who knows. You limit your options too quickly.



i was merely addressing the guy i quoted to denounce anything related to fire

and again, alex is shown coughing and throwing up blood, and jay is seen coughing. therefore it can not be tied to tim's history or anything regarding tim specifically, such as smoking cigarettes

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:33 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
SilentMedusa
Entrenched

Joined: 04 Jul 2013
Posts: 904
Lithp wrote:
I'm going to say that this idea sounds neat on paper, but falls short upon further inspection. Coughing is pretty much the only symptom of Operatorsickness that can be linked to smoke. Everything else has to be explained as "something else." Now, this COULD work if all of the symptoms are relate to events in Tim's past, because then the coughing could be related to the burning hospital, the seizures & hallucinations to his own, the personality changes to his apparent DID, etc. But then this would raise the question of why the Operator mimics the events of Tim's life, while a simpler explanation would be that all of Tim's symptoms are simply another case of Operatorsickness.


Well, since it seems to me they're angling this to be Tim is at the epicenter (i.e., it began with him and will end with him), that could be an explanation for TO inflicting symptoms on others that Tim himself has experienced.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:23 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		Could be, but the other things can't seem to be related to physical events in Tim's life, but rather the fact that he had the same symptoms. So we'd basically be invoking some kind of weird first cause/special pleading argument, where we claim that Tim's symptoms are causing everyone else's, rather than that everyone's symptoms share the same cause, Tim's included.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:29 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
knightmare
Veteran


Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 109

 		I think if we get any kind of explanation behind TO's power, it will have something to do with him being a manifestation of, and feeding off of fear.

I still go back to the reason why the pills seem to work is because they are anti-anxiety medication, that lessons the amount of fear introduced by being in proximity to TO.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:58 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Sidenote
Decorated

Joined: 24 Nov 2013
Posts: 240
Location: Scotland

 		Now that I think about it, I think you could say that if the The Operator is close it causes anxiety and paranoia, even if they cant see him. Those symptoms develop into worse things. That's also why the pills help.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:43 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		The symptoms, as I am aware, are:

Paranoia
Sleeplessness & associated signs (bags under eyes, etc.)
Hallucinations
Coughing (sometimes to the extent of blood)
Seizures

Paranoia & hallucinations could be related to sleeplessness.
Seizures, paranoia, & hallucinations could be related.

I don't really see how you could fit the coughing in with the other symptoms, though.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:54 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
JAL13
Decorated


Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Posts: 269
Location: Between Realms
Lithp wrote:
The symptoms, as I am aware, are:

Paranoia
Sleeplessness & associated signs (bags under eyes, etc.)
Hallucinations
Coughing (sometimes to the extent of blood)
Seizures

Paranoia & hallucinations could be related to sleeplessness.
Seizures, paranoia, & hallucinations could be related.

I don't really see how you could fit the coughing in with the other symptoms, though.


I majored in psychology in college (not that it matters on this forum because everyone is an expert) and remembered a disorder called Somatoform Disorders.

In a nutshell this disorder can trigger a bodily illness without having a true physical cause. That means that doctors cannot diagnose what is causing one to seize, cough, paralysis, blindness, etc, etc.

This is a stretch, but perhaps TO can be linked to this disorder more than others due to its characteristics being closely related to some of the characters. Specifically a Pain related Somatoform Disorder:

"Pain disorder: People who have pain disorder typically experience pain that started with a psychological stress or trauma.

For example, they develop an unexplained, chronic headache after a stressful life event.

Pain is the focus of the disorder. But psychological factors are believed to play a role in the perception and severity of the pain.

People with pain disorder frequently seek medical care. They may become socially isolated and experience problems with work and family life."

Cited from: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/somatoform-disorders-symptoms-types-treatment

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:17 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
lonsumtravlr
Entrenched

Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
JAL13 wrote:
I majored in psychology in college (not that it matters on this forum because everyone is an expert) and remembered a disorder called Somatoform Disorders.

In a nutshell this disorder can trigger a bodily illness without having a true physical cause. That means that doctors cannot diagnose what is causing one to seize, cough, paralysis, blindness, etc, etc.

This is a stretch, but perhaps TO can be linked to this disorder more than others due to its characteristics being closely related to some of the characters. Specifically a Pain related Somatoform Disorder:

"Pain disorder: People who have pain disorder typically experience pain that started with a psychological stress or trauma.

For example, they develop an unexplained, chronic headache after a stressful life event.

Pain is the focus of the disorder. But psychological factors are believed to play a role in the perception and severity of the pain.

People with pain disorder frequently seek medical care. They may become socially isolated and experience problems with work and family life."

Cited from: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/somatoform-disorders-symptoms-types-treatment


Not a bad conjecture, but couldn't TO be considered a "true physical cause"? I can see an empirically minded physician, psychiatrist, or mental health counselor suggesting this because he or she likely wouldn't ever see or experience TO in whatever passes for TO's "flesh." It really seems that whatever disorder Tim may have that's TO related has TO and the TO experience as a direct stimulus. And of course he likely manifests signs of several disorders and probably isn't afflicted with only one.

Pain disorder I can see as being more likely, given all of the trauma from the very real experiences that Tim was put through.

Off Topic: Do any of these diagnoses still hold up under the controversial new DSM-V?

EDIT: I was a bit unclear, in part because I speed read your post. What I meant about TO being a "true physical cause" is that something about TO other than the traumatic experience of being stalked, harassed, abducted, and more is contributing to his symptoms. (Radiation or something else related to this very strange horror.) It wouldn't at all negate the presence of Pain Disorder or another Somatoform Disorder.

The seizures are less likely to be completely psychological. They're accompanied by distortion that's particularly heavy during the worst ones (see Entries #61, #81, #82). That seems to me to be a clue that there's something physical at play here (if not radiation then EMF manipulation or something)--and which is contributing to psychological trauma as well.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:21 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
JAL13
Decorated


Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Posts: 269
Location: Between Realms
lonsumtravlr wrote:
JAL13 wrote:
I majored in psychology in college (not that it matters on this forum because everyone is an expert) and remembered a disorder called Somatoform Disorders.

In a nutshell this disorder can trigger a bodily illness without having a true physical cause. That means that doctors cannot diagnose what is causing one to seize, cough, paralysis, blindness, etc, etc.

This is a stretch, but perhaps TO can be linked to this disorder more than others due to its characteristics being closely related to some of the characters. Specifically a Pain related Somatoform Disorder:

"Pain disorder: People who have pain disorder typically experience pain that started with a psychological stress or trauma.

For example, they develop an unexplained, chronic headache after a stressful life event.

Pain is the focus of the disorder. But psychological factors are believed to play a role in the perception and severity of the pain.

People with pain disorder frequently seek medical care. They may become socially isolated and experience problems with work and family life."

Cited from: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/somatoform-disorders-symptoms-types-treatment


Not a bad conjecture, but couldn't TO be considered a "true physical cause"? I can see an empirically minded physician, psychiatrist, or mental health counselor suggesting this because he or she likely wouldn't ever see or experience TO in whatever passes for TO's "flesh." It really seems that whatever disorder Tim may have that's TO related has TO and the TO experience as a direct stimulus. And of course he likely manifests signs of several disorders and probably isn't afflicted with only one.

Pain disorder I can see as being more likely, given all of the trauma from the very real experiences that Tim was put through.

Off Topic: Do any of these diagnoses still hold up under the controversial new DSM-V?

EDIT: I was a bit unclear, in part because I speed read your post. What I meant about TO being a "true physical cause" is that something about TO other than the traumatic experience of being stalked, harassed, abducted, and more is contributing to his symptoms. (Radiation or something else related to this very strange horror.) It wouldn't at all negate the presence of Pain Disorder or another Somatoform Disorder.

The seizures are less likely to be completely psychological. They're accompanied by distortion that's particularly heavy during the worst ones (see Entries #61, #81, #82). That seems to me to be a clue that there's something physical at play here (if not radiation then EMF manipulation or something)--and which is contributing to psychological trauma as well.


I've been out of school since the release of the DSM-V so I'm not quite sure what is still considered a major disorder and what is not. I was in school during the time when the DSM-IV was still being used.

I am actually all for the characters suffering from Somatoform, but I am also in favor of both arguments. The characters themselves typically show these symtpoms when they see TO, have something that triggers memories from the past, or witness something that relates to the events. Memory loss could also be self-induced.

Tim, as well as Hoody/Brian, take pills but they lack any sort of label which would show that they are prescribed to them. They may be a placebo to stop their own Somatoform disorder from acting up not knowing what they are actually suffering from is in their heads.

As for a true psychical cause I do believe there is one, but it is not always the case. I would say that some are physically induced while others are psychologically induced. Although, I know little on EMF and other types of radiation's effects on the body so I won't overstep my boundaries and say it's not possible.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:56 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
lonsumtravlr
Entrenched

Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
JAL13 wrote:
I've been out of school since the release of the DSM-V so I'm not quite sure what is still considered a major disorder and what is not. I was in school during the time when the DSM-IV was still being used.

I am actually all for the characters suffering from Somatoform, but I am also in favor of both arguments. The characters themselves typically show these symtpoms when they see TO, have something that triggers memories from the past, or witness something that relates to the events. Memory loss could also be self-induced.

Tim, as well as Hoody/Brian, take pills but they lack any sort of label which would show that they are prescribed to them. They may be a placebo to stop their own Somatoform disorder from acting up not knowing what they are actually suffering from is in their heads.

As for a true psychical cause I do believe there is one, but it is not always the case. I would say that some are physically induced while others are psychologically induced. Although, I know little on EMF and other types of radiation's effects on the body so I won't overstep my boundaries and say it's not possible.


DSM-V is new and sucks. My wife actually studied mental health counseling for a bit. The revisions were one factor in her changing her emphasis to another area of applied social science altogether.

I'm not against the somatoform disorder diagnosis. I'm just saying that I don't think--in my nonspecialist perspective, mind you (I studied comparative religion, philosophy, anthropology, history, literature)--that it's sufficient to explain everything, if I'm understanding all of it correctly. (I may be wrong, but would some sort of traumatic event dealing from exposure to an environmental hazard preclude the manifestation of any somatoform disorder?)

I gotta say, my perspective on MH as a series (I don't care about the ARG/ARE aspect outside of marketing and its hand in creating internet mythology and internet culture) is that it's Kolchak: The Night Stalker meets "The Colour out of Space" (best Lovecraft story ever) meets Twin Peaks as envisioned by David Lynch and Mark Frost before ABC hijacked it. You have the paranormal investigation by non investigators (Kolchak was a reporter who found supernatural or paranormal events and a very worldly conspiracy covering it up--we don't have that latter here). You have the odd thing that doesn't fit into our world and exposes a reality that drives someone past the brink of sanity (it's one of the reasons I don't mind much that TO from about the midpoint of Season 2 on, and really since Entry #64, hasn't moved much or apparently done much). You have this weird presence that seems to be fueled by fear and trauma (I dont' want to say that TO feeds on it--TO doesn't seem to be a vampire or anything like that) and that has somehow attached itself to a place (or a group of individuals inhabiting a particular area) and sort of become a symptom and maybe a barometer of its decay (which is why I likened TO to a pest, if not a parasite, in an earlier post). Not that I don't see it as something original, which it is. It recalls several different examples of genre I really like and combines them quite deftly. Sorry to get a bit off topic here. But it's not that off topic. You have a good theory, and I'm not qualified enough to affirm or refute all aspects of it (not that that really matters anyway).

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:14 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Lithp
I Have No Life


Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Posts: 2058

 		Wiki says this:

In the opinion of Allen Frances, chair of the DSM-IV task force, the DSM-5's new somatic symptom disorder brings with it a risk of mislabeling a sizable proportion of the population as mentally ill. "Millions of people could be mislabeled, with the burden falling disproportionately on women, because they are more likely to be casually dismissed as 'catastrophizers' when presenting with physical symptoms."

=========================

I guess this explanation is technically possible, but it seems to me like an easy out for explaining unrelated symptoms, one which isn't foreshadowed in any way. I'm sure that having full blown seizures with this is probably pretty rare, & if they can be purely psychological in origin, probably require some kind of suggestion process.

Certainly, that either The Operator causes its own disease or that the characters are afflicted with multiple diseases are both plausible explanations. I was commenting specifically on the theory that the more severe symptoms spun off from the less severe ones.

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:37 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Sha Noran
Entrenched


Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 919
Ascalondion wrote:
Sha Noran wrote:

The coolest spectrum of this smoke inhalation theory to me is the symbolism of Tim smoking cigarettes tying into it. Cigarettes are basically a chronic habit of smoke inhalation.


When I read your remarks I couldn't help but think of how this symbolizes that maybe Tim is the source of all this trouble: Like a smoker, he not only causes himself harm, he also (and maybe even more) puts the health of the people surrounding him at risk; they'll start coughing too, due to passive smoking.

You know, I don't want to say this is a thing, but I had to smile a bit when I thought of that symbolism, and therefore thought I'd share it with you, regardless of how far off the mark it is.


I like where you're taking that. A+ in Sha Noran's Writing Symbolism 101. Especially considering how Tim's smoking is SPECIFICALLY referenced in Entry 84 - seems like a clear callback to a subtley obvious hint throughout the series.

I'm sad there has not been a more intense look at how Brian's access to the 84 footage affected his perspective when creating TTA videos.

Also, lonsumtrvlr: I enjoyed your pontificating as well, particularly regarding 64. Cheers.

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:34 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
lonsumtravlr
Entrenched

Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
Sha Noran wrote:
lonsumtrvlr: I enjoyed your pontificating as well, particularly regarding 64. Cheers.


Well, I enjoyed your apocalyptic fear that the finale will underwhelm in the "anticipation" thread. But now I really, really, really need caffeine.

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:32 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 3 of 4 [46 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group