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 Forum index » Chaotic Fiction » Marble Hornets
Questions from a New Player
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Shu
Greenhorn

Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 5

 		Questions from a New Player
Hey guys, I've known about MH for years now but didn't start playing until three days ago. Naturally now I'm caught up to Entry #84 and all the TTA videos. But I'm left with a few questions, perhaps they are red herrings or have yet to be answered, I'm not sure. If anything is obvious or answered let me know.

1. This is a question I've had since before starting. What the hell exactly is a marble hornet? Is there some phrase that I'm unaware of? It just seems strange to me to be the title of a film (even a student film,) as it to me has no meaning. I couldn't find any references to the phrase pre-2009.

2. What is with Alex's stigmata in Entry #14? That's a powerful, obvious symbol that never got expanded on or mentioned again. I don't see any other parallels that would make Alex a Christ figure. So why stigmata? If it isn't stigmata, why blood that's clearly coming from his forehead?

3. What about enttry #37? I'm guessing it's there to show that the Operator has been with Alex since he was five/six years old. What's the significance? All the signs point towards Tim and the hospital fire having to do with the Operator's unleashing onto Tim and later our cast and crew. Yet fairly early on they show the Operator has been with Alex since before he met Tim.

I'll remember more questions I'm sure, I should have taken notes. I was just watching this as some light entertainment, it went a lot further than I expected.

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:30 am
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Sidenote
Decorated

Joined: 24 Nov 2013
Posts: 240
Location: Scotland

 		To answer your first question Troy and Joseph said it was to do with the fact that pretentious film makers in college would always make their titles a adjective then a noun.

Listen to it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr38zIG3SUI#t=428

(the video will start at the question)

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:40 am
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Supersox
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Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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 		To answer #2: You might be having trouble linking Alex to a Christ-like figure in other entries because the stigmata are not present in Entry #14.

The stigmata of Christ are the marks of the nails in his hands and feet and the mark of his pierced side. The crown of thorns are not part of the stigmata. So while Alex's head is bloody, there would be no reason to really link that to Christ's crucifixion. If Trosephim wanted to link Alex to Christ via the stigmata, they would have used the nail holes or the spear mark from his side.

And for some more fun Entry #14 information, when one of the TTA videos was recently (in the last few months) solved, we found out that the end of that tape was actually recorded BEFORE the beginning. The beginning was recorded over the events that happened before the bloody head, meaning that TO walking into Alex's room, happens after the blood-causing event.

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:56 am
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Shu
Greenhorn

Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 5
Sidenote wrote:
To answer your first question Troy and Joseph said it was to do with the fact that pretentious film makers in college would always make their titles a adjective then a noun.

Listen to it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr38zIG3SUI#t=428

(the video will start at the question)


Well that's a good bit of anticlimaticism. Would have been fun if Alex (as a pretentious art student) tried to give a "deep" meaning to the name IG after Troy picked a pretty random one.

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:57 am
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Shu
Greenhorn

Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 5
Supersox wrote:
To answer #2: You might be having trouble linking Alex to a Christ-like figure in other entries because the stigmata are not present in Entry #14.

The stigmata of Christ are the marks of the nails in his hands and feet and the mark of his pierced side. The crown of thorns are not part of the stigmata. So while Alex's head is bloody, there would be no reason to really link that to Christ's crucifixion. If Trosephim wanted to link Alex to Christ via the stigmata, they would have used the nail holes or the spear mark from his side.

And for some more fun Entry #14 information, when one of the TTA videos was recently (in the last few months) solved, we found out that the end of that tape was actually recorded BEFORE the beginning. The beginning was recorded over the events that happened before the bloody head, meaning that TO walking into Alex's room, happens after the blood-causing event.


That's not true. Stigmata can be on the hands and feet from the crucifixion and/or from the Crown of Thorns. "Some stigmatics display wounds to the forehead similar to those caused by the Crown of Thorns." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmata

Blood from the forehead is DEFINITELY a Christ symbol. If they weren't trying to convey Crown of Thorns-esque wounds on Alex's forehead that's poor writing. Chekhov's gun, etc.

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:04 pm
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Supersox
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Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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Shu wrote:
Supersox wrote:
To answer #2: You might be having trouble linking Alex to a Christ-like figure in other entries because the stigmata are not present in Entry #14.

The stigmata of Christ are the marks of the nails in his hands and feet and the mark of his pierced side. The crown of thorns are not part of the stigmata. So while Alex's head is bloody, there would be no reason to really link that to Christ's crucifixion. If Trosephim wanted to link Alex to Christ via the stigmata, they would have used the nail holes or the spear mark from his side.

And for some more fun Entry #14 information, when one of the TTA videos was recently (in the last few months) solved, we found out that the end of that tape was actually recorded BEFORE the beginning. The beginning was recorded over the events that happened before the bloody head, meaning that TO walking into Alex's room, happens after the blood-causing event.


That's not true. Stigmata can be on the hands and feet from the crucifixion and/or from the Crown of Thorns. "Some stigmatics display wounds to the forehead similar to those caused by the Crown of Thorns." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmata

Blood from the forehead is DEFINITELY a Christ symbol. If they weren't trying to convey Crown of Thorns-esque wounds on Alex's forehead that's poor writing. Chekhov's gun, etc.


Some...but not most or all. It's not typical to point to the marks left by the thorns as stigmata, though I will admit it is possible. To point to the crown of thorns itself is more likely, however. John 20:25-27 shows that the hands, feet, and side are the marks of the resurrection.

Which brings the question to an interesting point--why would they use the stigmata to make Alex the Christ figure, when the stigmata show resurrection and not death, yet have Alex only bring death?

I don't think the blood is supposed to link Alex to Christ. I think the blood is just to show that he was in a big struggle, possibly one that ended in the death of someone.

Now, if you want to entertain a Noah's Ark-based theory...I'm all ears! I see connections all over the place with that one--though I do think it's a bit coincidental itself.

To answer #3 comically: entrry #37 was Alex bringing TO to life. He had heard about TO from Tim, who had imagined TO and thought he was his friend. Feeling bad that Tim had no real friends, Alex used his birthday wish to bring TO to life. lol

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:22 pm
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Ascalondion
Decorated


Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 235
Location: Woods

 		Well, other references to blood are the coughing, the head smashing of Bruce (the Guy from #49) and obviously Jay's wound. The coughing of blood is the more frequent occasion, but even then, there are a lot more coughing situations than bloody coughing situations, and the coughing in general hasn't been figured out beyond the "TOs presences causes this" line. (There was a recent thread going into that, but I'm unsure if there was even a rough form of consensus in there. The two promising lines of interpretation went to explore the relation of the coughing either to smoke and fire, or the water motif from TTA.)

And while stigmata can include a bloody forehead in resemblance to the thorn crown, not every bloody forehead is a reference to the crucification of Christ. Especially since the marks on the hands are WAY more popular in popular media. You need some more reasons than just a bloody forehead to support your claim that his is a reference to stigmata, or else you could also suppose that Zorg from The Fight Element is supposed to be some Christ-like person, because his forehead bleeds too. … (I'd like to note that there very few interpretations that rely on religious symbols were any good so far. Even though there is a ark, and people are constantly trying to find bible phrases from TTA numbers, nothing conclusive has been found via this method as far as I'm aware.)

On a sidenote: when facing difficulties with a coherent interpretation, people are fast to resort to OOG reasons (myself included). This is even more the case in regards to season one, which has a more dubious canonicity, because of some OOG remarks how season one was made "on the fly".
While I'm at it, it is also very common to to "quote" comments from the makers of the series in a rather broad interpretation.

The "Marble Hornets" name, however, seems to not fall under this category. I really has no meaning (so far) and is probably just a MacGuffin.

#37 is indeed a rather big mystery so far. The best guesses are either that this was just a TTA edit instead of genuine footage, or that Tim and Alex have known each other since childhood, but forgot about that.

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:46 pm
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Shu
Greenhorn

Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 5
Supersox wrote:


Some...but not most or all. It's not typical to point to the marks left by the thorns as stigmata, though I will admit it is possible. To point to the crown of thorns itself is more likely, however. John 20:25-27 shows that the hands, feet, and side are the marks of the resurrection.

Which brings the question to an interesting point--why would they use the stigmata to make Alex the Christ figure, when the stigmata show resurrection and not death, yet have Alex only bring death?

I don't think the blood is supposed to link Alex to Christ. I think the blood is just to show that he was in a big struggle, possibly one that ended in the death of someone.

Now, if you want to entertain a Noah's Ark-based theory...I'm all ears! I see connections all over the place with that one--though I do think it's a bit coincidental itself.

To answer #3 comically: entrry #37 was Alex bringing TO to life. He had heard about TO from Tim, who had imagined TO and thought he was his friend. Feeling bad that Tim had no real friends, Alex used his birthday wish to bring TO to life. lol


That's my question: the first thing I thought of was the Crown of Thorns, and that's definitely the most powerful symbol associated with the imagery. They made a whole video to show it, then there isn't a single mention or reference or explanation. If it's not significant then that's a huge Chekhov's Gun situation. He wasn't scalped. A wound on the forehead is an unlikely place to simply be a struggle. A bloody nose or a black eye would make a lot more sense, but they specifically went with a forehead running with blood. The only situations I can see are a) undiscovered significance (like I said, no other parallels with Christ can be seen, so this is a huge question mark) b) poorly-placed symbol c) OOG change of direction that made it moot.

I'd hate to accept c).

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:04 pm
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Shu
Greenhorn

Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 5
Supersox wrote:


To answer #3 comically: entrry #37 was Alex bringing TO to life. He had heard about TO from Tim, who had imagined TO and thought he was his friend. Feeling bad that Tim had no real friends, Alex used his birthday wish to bring TO to life. lol


Well, to give credence to this theory, that would have the Operator borne out of an extinguishing of flame. Very Happy

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:18 pm
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Gante
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Joined: 30 Jun 2012
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 		My hypothesis about Alex's head wound (and at the moment, a hypothesis is all it is) is that the Operator made that wound, and inserted something of itself into Alex. A seed, if you will, or an egg. This something gradually grows, eroding Alex's sanity and transforming him into a kind of larval operator himself. Remember Entry 76? At the 8:59 mark, after he shoots Jessica, he briefly appears to be wearing the Operator's suit. Maybe that's the way It reproduces, like an ichneumon wasp laying its eggs in a caterpillar.

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:40 pm
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TheOperator
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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Location: You don't wanna know
Shu wrote:
That's my question: the first thing I thought of was the Crown of Thorns, and that's definitely the most powerful symbol associated with the imagery. They made a whole video to show it, then there isn't a single mention or reference or explanation. If it's not significant then that's a huge Chekhov's Gun situation. He wasn't scalped. A wound on the forehead is an unlikely place to simply be a struggle. A bloody nose or a black eye would make a lot more sense, but they specifically went with a forehead running with blood. The only situations I can see are a) undiscovered significance (like I said, no other parallels with Christ can be seen, so this is a huge question mark) b) poorly-placed symbol c) OOG change of direction that made it moot.

I'd hate to accept c).


It's a wound on the forehead. There is nothing else linking Alex to Jesus in the entry, that is far too trivial a similarity for there to be much chance of it being intentional.

However, it is indeed mysterious how he got that blood on him. Unfortunately that and many other questions will probably just never be answered, given how little of the series if left and how few questions have been answered.

Ascalondion wrote:
#37 is indeed a rather big mystery so far. The best guesses are either that this was just a TTA edit instead of genuine footage, or that Tim and Alex have known each other since childhood, but forgot about that.


I would argue those are bad guesses, as the former means what looks like a big, creepy development is actually just TTA showing how hateful he is for the 1000th time which would make the entry shit and pointless and the latter is pretty coincidental and kind of too reminiscent of EverymanHYBRID with the whole "protagonists knew each from childhood but forgot" twist.

However I can't offer too good a theory myself. Maybe the reason they've implied TO followed both Alex and Tim while they were children was just to sustain the uncertainty surrounding him.

Gante wrote:
My hypothesis about Alex's head wound (and at the moment, a hypothesis is all it is) is that the Operator made that wound, and inserted something of itself into Alex. A seed, if you will, or an egg. This something gradually grows, eroding Alex's sanity and transforming him into a kind of larval operator himself. Remember Entry 76? At the 8:59 mark, after he shoots Jessica, he briefly appears to be wearing the Operator's suit. Maybe that's the way It reproduces, like an ichneumon wasp laying its eggs in a caterpillar.


Alex was never shown shooting Jessica. I have considered maybe the final stage of TO's "infection" is to make his victim become like himself and that frame in #76 does seem to support it. Although they did have that really boring and repetitive development of Hoody managing to capture Alex and bring him to Benedict Hall (apparently The Operator was taking some time off while Hoody did that?) which implies Alex is still just a human with his personality messed up.

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 7:18 pm
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lonsumtravlr
Entrenched

Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 1009
Location: The Great Continent of New England
TheOperator wrote:
I would argue those are bad guesses, as the former means what looks like a big, creepy development is actually just TTA showing how hateful he is for the 1000th time which would make the entry shit and pointless and the latter is pretty coincidental and kind of too reminiscent of EverymanHYBRID with the whole "protagonists knew each from childhood but forgot" twist.

However I can't offer too good a theory myself. Maybe the reason they've implied TO followed both Alex and Tim while they were children was just to sustain the uncertainty surrounding him.


Or, if (and for God's sake to those who'll jump on the conditional here but I'm just using it rhetorically) Brian really is Hoody and Hoody is TTA or involved with TTA, and Brian/Hoody/TTA has severely lost the plot by thinking he's found some sort of connection between Alex and TO (or has a particualrly demented perspective on it), then maybe he was trying to tell Jay and the other viewers something by fabricating a connection? Maybe he wasn't fabricating but suggesting a connection? Odd way to do it, but he lived in a shack that teleported around a park and stole his best friend's anticonvulsants when he wasn't strongarming him into some kind of weird service to him.

TheOperator wrote:
Alex was never shown shooting Jessica. I have considered maybe the final stage of TO's "infection" is to make his victim become like himself and that frame in #76 does seem to support it. Although they did have that really boring and repetitive development of Hoody managing to capture Alex and bring him to Benedict Hall (apparently The Operator was taking some time off while Hoody did that?) which implies Alex is still just a human with his personality messed up.


That's true, and I still am unsure he actually did it. Of course, that whole last part of Entry #76 seems to me as if someone was only trying to suggest that Jessica was dead or dying and was abducted by TO. (That's just my viewing of what I think is the only MH entry that approaches shark-jumping status.)

I was wondering also about Hoody and Alex and what actually happened. I know there were those photos of Alex down in that basement room, but... well... shit, like all of us, I only know what I've seen in the entries.

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:30 pm
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Gante
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Joined: 30 Jun 2012
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Quote:
Alex was never shown shooting Jessica


My mistake. I should have said
Quote:
"When Alex was picking up his gun."


PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 10:54 pm
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SilentMedusa
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Joined: 04 Jul 2013
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Supersox wrote:


And for some more fun Entry #14 information, when one of the TTA videos was recently (in the last few months) solved, we found out that the end of that tape was actually recorded BEFORE the beginning. The beginning was recorded over the events that happened before the bloody head, meaning that TO walking into Alex's room, happens after the blood-causing event.


Wait, when did this happen? Where can I read that discussion? This is news to me!

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:17 am
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Supersox
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Joined: 20 Aug 2005
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SilentMedusa wrote:
Supersox wrote:


And for some more fun Entry #14 information, when one of the TTA videos was recently (in the last few months) solved, we found out that the end of that tape was actually recorded BEFORE the beginning. The beginning was recorded over the events that happened before the bloody head, meaning that TO walking into Alex's room, happens after the blood-causing event.


Wait, when did this happen? Where can I read that discussion? This is news to me!


Took me a while to find it again, but I got it!

http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28526&start=165

The post by Caffeinated Civet explains what I was trying to say well.

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 3:12 am
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