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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » Timewaster: Red Kore
Isn't self-hypnosis dangerous?
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Mastrein
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Joined: 13 May 2003
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 		Isn't self-hypnosis dangerous?
I've read a book now about selfhypnosis and it says that self-hypnosis isn't dangerous. But in the scientific part of the book it says that selfhypnosis could be so strong that it blocks out some nerves in the brain that connects the two brain-halfs together. I've heard the exact same thing about the drug ecstacy.

Hmm, can I be certain that it doesn't harm the brain in any way?
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 5:09 am
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brotherspider
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 		certainties in an uncertain world
alright first... we're not guaranteed that waking up and going outside is safe so, no... you probably are not 100% assured that self-hypnosis is 100% safe...
However, without trying to boast I am a student of many forms of religion and spirituality and in all of my studies of trance, trancedental meditation, ecstatic dancing and drumming... etc etc etc... I havent ever heard of someones "self-hypnosis" (or trance or whatever) as having damaged their brain.
however... ecstacy (or LSD or mushrooms or peyote or ayahuasca or ketmaine or tobacco or etc....) CAN be linked to causing some physical harm and neurological damage in small doses and especially so with substance abuse or larger doses.
There are many cultures who practice "self-hypnosis" who do NOT use mind altering chemicals.
So I guess, draw your own conclusions but I've never heard of someones non chemical self-hypnosis causing them to become brain damaged.
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 3:09 am
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PaleFigure
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 		Re: certainties in an uncertain world
brotherspider wrote:
however... ecstacy (or LSD or mushrooms or peyote or ayahuasca or ketmaine or tobacco or etc....) CAN be linked to causing some physical harm and neurological damage in small doses and especially so with substance abuse or larger doses.

aHA!!!

Reading this, marc? Sha-ZAM, baby!
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 8:37 am
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 		Re: certainties in an uncertain world
PaleFigure wrote:
brotherspider wrote:
however... ecstacy (or LSD or mushrooms or peyote or ayahuasca or ketmaine or tobacco or etc....) CAN be linked to causing some physical harm and neurological damage in small doses and especially so with substance abuse or larger doses.

aHA!!!

Reading this, marc? Sha-ZAM, baby!

::remembers IRC convo::

LOL Laughing

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 5:30 pm
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brotherspider
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 		what??
wait... what? what convo? what did I miss???
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 3:56 am
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Nyght_Shyft
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 		Re: what??
brotherspider wrote:
wait... what? what convo? what did I miss???

Too much, my friend, too much.

Join... Us.
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 10:21 pm
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brotherspider
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 		ARG!
I keep trying... I join the channel... talk and no one responds... perhaps it has something to do with the fact that as I have said.... I keep odd hours and no one is talking in there...
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 3:07 am
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Mr. Meditational Casualty
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 		TM is dangerous
Yep, meditation can be dangerous, especially Transcendental Meditation, which is why I have to wonder what the deal is with Howard Stern, for instance. He's a pretty on-top-of-his-game guy who is proud to be a student of TM for some 20 years. He says that before he learned to do it, he was bouncing off the walls and it's the only thing that calms him down and focuses his mind. And look at him! He's a total SUCCESS!

So, maybe for hyper wackos like Howard Stern Transcendtal Meditation is cool, I don't know... (he does seem like an angry S.O.B., though, but I think that's just his nature...)

Fact is, many people who turned onto TM in the 70s have problems with their minds now. They just space out. They go into blank states that cause major problems in their lives (working, driving, etc.) it is like the casualty of a person who has done too many drugs, in all actuality.

There's DIFFERENT forms of meditation. TM is a form that focuses a person on one repeated Mantra (in this case, one of a handful of names of certain Indian/Hindu Deities, which of couse Christians would regard as "demons", so you can imagine how happy they were when they found this out)... There are other forms of meditation, however, such as the Shambala Warrior meditation which is about focusing mind and body together in the here and now, rather than "losing your mind" to a blank state.

All forms of meditation are fairly similar, can lead to similar states of enlightment (I believe there are 8 basic "Jhanas" or "stages" of the meditative experience), but some are dangerous and some are not.

Look into it. TM is a bad one, but not hypnosis. They are different things.

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 1:29 pm
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brotherspider
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 		politeness
Alright, I will for a moment pretend like I have never studied any of this before and act from a completely analytical position.

You told me to look into it, give me some refferences so that I can.
Also, I don't believe that "spacing out" can be compared to a casualty.
Besides, if I am in deep contemplation do I appear to be "spaced out" to the rest of the world?

Michael J. Harner who is recognized fairly universally as the worlds foremost expert on Shamanism (which uses "meditation" or "trance" whatever we're calling it) has stated in "The Way Of the Shaman" "The difference between a shaman and a schizophrenic, is the shaman can turn it off." I think it's rather unenlightened to assume all of these people from the 70's (Also a period of HEAVY experimentation with narcotics I might note) who are "TM casualties", were originally completely sane productive members of society who had never experimented with any kind of narcotic. It's very simple for people to blame spirituality or TM or whatever for madness (if we can call "spacing out" madness) when the person practicing it had mental disorders to begin with.

One last note before I finish, you say TM is a "bad one" and hypnosis is ok. Hypnosis involves a second party, to which the first party (the hypnotized), is subjecting himself to any manner of post-hypnotic suggestion, or even misinterpretation of things said under hypnosis later. I hardly think that it can be said that TM is dangerous but hypnosis is completely safe when post-hypnotic suggestion can make one act in extremely bizarre fashion or even remember or forget events that may or may not have ever happened.
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 3:20 am
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Griffin
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 		Clean sweep dude Cool

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 3:47 am
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Belcher
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 		Just Google search "dangers of meditation". Almost assuredly, the only result you will get will be regarding TM. Or, let's say 90% of any real danger will involve TM (not just Christians warning about demon-possession).

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 10:14 am
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One Last Belch
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 		Oh yeah, I thought we were talking about "self-hypnosis". Where'd this other party come from? True TM must be done with another person present, otherwise it's not TM. Even in the popular 70's book titled "TM" there is no instruction for TM.

Once again, Google-search "dangers of meditation". Maybe contrast this search with "dangers of transcendental meditation". You'll see most sites you find regarding the first query are more about how NON-dangerous it is, whereas the second will be more about how dangerous TM can be.

It is like a drug casualty. I know a lot of space cases which are refered to as "acid casualties".

Clean sweep for me! Yay!

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 10:18 am
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Man With Gas
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 		What's the matter, Mr. Studier of Things? Did you suddenly realize you don't kwow what you're talking about?

I was dying to see evidence that:

A. Self-hypnosis involves another party. (If it did, it would not be SELF-hypnosis, would it?)

and

B. Evidence that TM is something that one can learn privately by himself without the aid of another party.

Just visit www.tm.org to see the following quote:

"The TM technique must be learned from a qualified teacher of the Transcendental Meditation program. The technique cannot be learned from a book, video or audio tape."

And, in case you're wondering, there is only ONE TM technique. IT IS IN FACT A REGISTERED TRADEMARK! ®™ so don't tell me that that's just "one" version of TM. There is only one version of TM and it must be learned in the presence of an instructor.

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 7:54 pm
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This gas is killing me
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 		Oh yeah... and a Shamanist trance could easily be considered a form of self-hypnosis. Get your drum or rattle and repetitively beat it all by yourself. True enough, others often assist the "psychonaut" by playing the instruments for him, but it can be done in solitude as well.

Self hypnosis vs. meditation... I believe they are slightly different states of mind, but that may have something to do with the goal. In meditation, there is no goal. Having a goal nullifies the act of meditating. Read any book about it and you will see that meditating is all about the act of being, not the goal of being something else or reaching some other state. These sorts of goals actually distract the mind from focusing on the here and now.
Hypnosis is somewhat different and typically has a goal in mind. Hypnosis usually involves some sleight of mind technique ("you're sleepy... you're on a beach... it's so peaceful...") whereas meditation uses of mind focusing technique.

Once again, TM is different from other forms of meditation and I encourage anyone to simply visit www.tm.org to see the difference. If I were to write a book on the TM technique, I would be sued because it is a registered trademark and needs to be learned in the presence of a licensed instructor.

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 10:48 pm
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brotherspider
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 		hmmm
First thought. I was unaware of TM's status as a business. Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh but I think its fairly accurate. I had assumed the term was general. Transcendental coming from transcendant and meditation... meaning essentially meditation with the purpose of transcending ones current state.
As I have stated on other threads I am staunchly opposed to religion and "organized spirituality" (which 9 times out of ten is about the money) for these exact reasons.
i think we need to draw some clear distinctions between

meditation (good old fashioned meditatin')
TM (whatever it really is)
"Self-Hypnosis" which I would consider a trance state (comments on its existence or its true nature?)
and hypnosis which uses a secondary party to induce the state.

On an inter-personal note, let's try to keep these comments as open as possible. I dont believe any of us are really here for a debate. Making statements in absolutes i.e. "Yes it is dangerous" instead of "I haven't ever heard of it being dangerous" or "personally I feel that it could be dangerous" leads to debate and argument instead of conversation and learning.
oh and one last thing... could some of our "guests" please get a log in if for nothing else then so we know to whom we are all speaking? I tend not to trust the opinion of anyone who won't allow themselves to be seen.
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-Bill Hicks

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 8:23 pm
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