Return to Unfiction unforum
 a.r.g.b.b 
FAQ FAQ   Search Search 
 
Welcome!
New users, PLEASE read these forum guidelines. New posters, SEARCH before posting and read these rules before posting your killer new campaign. New players may also wish to peruse the ARG Player Tutorial.

All users must abide by the Terms of Service.
Website Restoration Project
This archiving project is a collaboration between Unfiction and Sean Stacey (SpaceBass), Brian Enigma (BrianEnigma), and Laura E. Hall (lehall) with
the Center for Immersive Arts.
Announcements
This is a static snapshot of the
Unfiction forums, as of
July 23, 2017.
This site is intended as an archive to chronicle the history of Alternate Reality Games.
 
The time now is Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:59 am
All times are UTC - 4 (DST in action)
View posts in this forum since last visit
View unanswered posts in this forum
Calendar
 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » GAME: Virtucube
Embarassing Virtucube Ranting
View previous topicView next topic
Page 1 of 2 [17 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
FrcknFrckn
Boot

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 11

Embarassing Virtucube Ranting

Sin Vraal wrote:
...frustrated...


I get incredibly frustrated when people create tenuous convoluted plots and theories in ARGS/puzzles... and then, even with no proof or actual connection to the 'reality', they convince themselves that their theory must be right and base every future argument on that false cornerstone.

In virtucube, for example, lines like:

"I'm growing increasingly more confident that the cycles of the moon are intrinsic here."

or

"It's relative to the lunar cycle, it has to be."

just drive me up the wall. To be confident, you need proof.

It's one thing to postulate a theory. It's even acceptable to follow up on it, test it, try to determine it's validity. But it's another thing to take the theory as canon and try to convince others of its 'truth'.
Not trying to sound harsh here, I just believe that a little bit of logical thought would nicely eliminate 90% of the fluff posts regarding ARGS.

ilovebees is another perfect example. I followed that ARG at the beginning. I stopped very quickly. Why? Not because the ARG was lacking in any way. No, it was because in order to follow anything that was going on, I had to wade through the metric tons of bullsh*t being crapped out by every basement dweller with an internet connection.

I guess at least with virtucube, I can solve it on my own and don't need any of the so-called 'community' in order to solve anything.

EDIT - Split to new topic as requested to keep thread on puzzle... on the topic of the puzzle. Crazy idea. -SG

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:33 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
Sin Vraal
Decorated


Joined: 28 Nov 2002
Posts: 219
Location: NJ

heh

I can agree with you in that regard - some people post the first (albeit farfetched and unvalidated) thoughts that comes to mind and enjoy going off on wild tangents, and it can get frustrating or even frantic when you're trying desperately to separate weak signal from much noise.

I find that those are the more exuberant people that have lots of desire but less actual experience with writing or solving puzzles - personally, I try to be encouraging and/or insistent on a course of action (or at least, traveling in an opposite direction). I don't want to scare anybody away that might have a spot-on idea on the next puzzle, and helping people nurture the puzzle-solving spirit will help everyone in the long run.

If it's too much for you to really enjoy yourself at times, you might prefer to snag someone whose methods jive better with yours in a Private Message. I'm only making suggestions as it seems like you are interseted in some interaction, or you wouldn't have posted here in the first place Cool.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:57 pm
 View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
 ICQ Number 
 Back to top 
FrcknFrckn
Boot

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 11

When it comes down to it, this board isn't actually too bad. The number of members is low enough the the signal-to-noise is fairly high.

My question is - at what point do you stop encouraging and start tuning out? The problem is that the schlock posters feed off each other. It's essentially an exponential relationship: double the posters, quadruple the crap to wade through.

Like I said, that was my problem with ilovebees. Enough halo fanboys came into the mix that it was virtually impossible to pull the pearls from the cesspool.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:10 pm
Last edited by FrcknFrckn on Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
skilletaudio
Unfettered


Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 515

Everyone one of us has been fitted with a bulls**t detector as we grew up. Once I had finally waded through the VOLUMES of data coming from all directions on my entry into ILB, I turned on the BS Detector from then on, and I really didnt put more than a few brain cycles on things that were obvious crud.

Honestly, if someone sets themselves up to go down a dead end, and when they get there, keep butting against the wall, that wall doesnt hurt me any. Let 'em smash against the bricks if they want, right?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:28 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
xmythx
Veteran

Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 102

FrcknFrkcn,

It's one thing to promote "convoluted ideas" as definitely correct and then preach that belief, trying to sway public opinion. That cannot be tolerated.

However, it's quite another thing to suggest ideas to be interpreted by the public, knowing that most will quaff the theory while others may take something away from it.

At the time of my postings concerning the Lunar Cycle and I-Ching hexagram, it was common belief that the code was integrated with the moon somehow. That was the stage of our thinking. As for the I-Ching hexagrams, it was also postulated that the key sequence was going to be 64 to solve the Face 2 cipher.

All I did was propose an idea that could be linked to the solution, and I said that "I" was growing increasingly confident in it. I did not push that belief on anyone else, nor did I try and promote it. It was simply an idea that came to mind, and was somewhat substantiated although based on false assumptions.

Now, before you go ranting further, perhaps it would be prudent of you to determine what kind of effort I've put forth after the fact towards this puzzle, then maybe you'd realise I'm not some idealistic and convoluted "newbie", if you will.

Perhaps that will dampen the effect to which the general consensus perceives your ridiculous outburst.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:39 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
FrcknFrckn
Boot

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 11

But apparently we aren't all born with bullsh*t detectors, as a browse through any messageboard would show you.

My point was not that it was hard to tell the bullsh*t from the good stuff; my point was that after the board hits a certain level it's just not worth the time and effort to do the sorting.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:41 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
skilletaudio
Unfettered


Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 515

I get your gist, but dont you think that what you are describing is a direct function of increased population on the ground floor? In other words, more cooks in the kitchen can spoil the soup, or make a bigger feast. Probably both at the same time, so is it worth it?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:45 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
FrcknFrckn
Boot

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 11

xmythx,

As I said in my PM, my rant was not a personal attack on you. It was unfortunate that the two quotes I used were both from your posts - in hindsight, had I noticed beforehand, I would have changed one of them.

As you have brought it up however, I will point out the issue I have with your "I Ching"/moon posts. You claimed you were confident. You even claim now that is was "substantiated". But based on what exactly? The fact that the background was a picture of a moon. That's it. What you claimed was a theory based on an assumption based on a theory. There was absolutely nothing else connecting the puzzle to the moon. The same argument could be used to connect the puzzle and the color yellow. Or face 2 and a forest. Or face 3 and water.

If you're going to pose a theory, state it as a theory. There is no confidence in a theory. Lack of disproof is not proof. Lack of disproof is not substantiation. Until you have actual proof, you have nothing but a theory, and nothing to be confident in.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:01 pm
Last edited by FrcknFrckn on Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
FrcknFrckn
Boot

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 11

My thoughts

You want my thoughts? Alright, I'll tell you what I told gambit when he PM'd me.

I've written programs of my own, testing permutations of the deck (different suit orders, reversed, joker positions, "king of clubs is won", etc), combined with a variety of keyword combinations. By my estimates, I've automatically tested well over 10 million deck/keyword combinations - probably closer to 20 million - and not one of them has panned out.

What did that prove for me? Nothing. But it sure as hell disproved a lot of theories.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:09 pm
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
xmythx
Veteran

Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 102

FrcknFrckn wrote:
xmythx,

As I said in my PM, my rant was not a personal attack on you. It was unfortunate that the two quotes I used were both from your posts - in hindsight, had I noticed beforehand, I would have changed one of them.

As you have brought it up however, I will point out the issue I have with your "I Ching"/moon posts. You claimed you were confident. You even claim now that is was "substantiated". But based on what exactly? The fact that the background was a picture of a moon. That's it. What you claimed was a theory based on an assumption based on a theory. There was absolutely nothing else connecting the puzzle to the moon. The same argument could be used to connect the puzzle and the color yellow. Or face 2 and a forest. Or face 3 and water.

If you're going to pose a theory, state it as a theory. There is no confidence in a theory. Lack of disproof is not proof. Lack of disproof is not substantiation. Until you have actual proof, you have nothing but a theory, and nothing to be confident in.


[quote="xmythx}somewhat substantiated although based on false assumptions[/quote]

1. The assumptions were false.
2. If the assumptions were true, namely that the puzzle was a representation of the Lunar Cycle, ie. the 90 degree shifts, and that a 64 key string was needed to key the Solitaire Cipher, perhaps representing the I-Ching hexagrams, and that it wasn't a coincidence that I-Ching and the Lunar phases are referred in concordance with syzygy, another ARG, then yes, there was a crude substantiation of my wild theory.

The fact that you are attempting to bolster your own intelligence by dismissing the thoughts of others only diminishes your stature and reduces the respect that myself, and possibly the community, has for you, regardless of how intelligent you may be.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:51 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
FrcknFrckn
Boot

Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 11

A definition

substantiate: to show something to be true, or to support a claim with facts

Basing something on assumptions does not substantiate something in any way shape or form, regardless of whether the assumption is true or not.

And just for the record - why exactly should I give a rat's ass about my "stature" or "respect" in the community? This is the internet - those things amount to absolutely zero here.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:06 am
 View user's profile
 Back to top 
jzero
Boot

Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: A definition

FrcknFrckn wrote:
This is the internet - those things amount to absolutely zero here.


Which is precisely how much we are accomplishing dickering around here like this. Somone somewhere has already sorted this whole thing out...let's dig in.

I'm pretty sure that we've "solved" face 1 in that we've seen all that there is to see. The answer is staring us right in the face; we're just either not seeing it, or not correctly articulating what it is we're seeing. Sad
_________________
They call me Jzero

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:13 am
 View user's profile Visit poster's website
 Back to top 
Kizmet
Greenhorn


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 8
Location: California

Frckn^2:

So tell me this, does the fact that you have tested over 20 million combinations as you have bragged give you ANY RIGHT to bash the works that the others are doing in this forum? No. I'm not sure just how long you have been involved with the whole ARG thing, but even cloudmakers had fluff posts, any that were spam were delt with a such, but NONE were bashed in this such a manner. In fact, several puzzles were solved by people shouting out different ideas.... It's called BRAINSTORMING...I am SHOCKED and APPALLED that you would want that to end. Also i want to know why you would use a puzzle topic in the forum to base your ridiculous rant and not start your own topic based on such. Not doing so just increases the amount of "FLUFF" that is in this forum, especially when i turn on my computer at three in the morning and see that there are new posts for a PUZZLE and have to wade through this bullsh*t.

Here's my advice to you and i hope that you take it in heart:
Be more tolerant of others, otherwise you come off as sounding like an ass as so many of us have already pointed out.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:09 am
 View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
 Back to top 
Sin Vraal
Decorated


Joined: 28 Nov 2002
Posts: 219
Location: NJ

hey

My advice is to put this all behind and take the solitaire discussion over to the face color to which it belongs =).

PS - Nobody szid they'd figured it out yet, did they Rose?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:35 am
 View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
 ICQ Number 
 Back to top 
bill
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 614
Location: Tampa

Re: Embarassing Virtucube Ranting

FrcknFrckn wrote:
I get incredibly frustrated when people create tenuous convoluted plots and theories in ARGS/puzzles... and then, even with no proof or actual connection to the 'reality', they convince themselves that their theory must be right and base every future argument on that false cornerstone.


Judicious use of the [SPEC] tag on posts is very helpful in this matter.
_________________
Bill
http://deaddrop.us/
Dedicated to Alternate Reality Gaming


PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:46 pm
 View user's profile Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
 Back to top 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 2 [17 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2 Next
View previous topicView next topic
 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » GAME: Virtucube
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group