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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!) » The Haunted Apiary (Let Op!): General/Updates
[OT] Survey...Who should do an ARG?
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thebruce
Dances With Wikis


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 6899
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

massive multiplayer online role playing game.

basically a persistent fantasy world, where you interact with a bunch of people while playing your RPG character. Generally speaking, there's no 'ultimate goal' to finish the game, just a whole bunch of events, quests and such that you work on until you become your ultimate character.

When they started as text games on the net, usually the few players who managed to last long enough (meaning by interest - usually many months of man-hours in play time, sometimes more than a year - which, depending on how often you play, can end up to be quite a long time) to not be able to advance any more became 'gods' or PMs, or more commonly, wizards. People who kept the game evolving - they knew the game so much they could alter the world - add new NPCs, events, quests, places...

these days MMORPGs are games like Worlds of Warcraft, and Everquest... depending on how involved you get, they can be quite addicting... and money holes Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:48 am
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Phaedra
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Ack, going to bed, so I'm not going to respond in depth tonight, although I'm very interested. But I couldn't leave this:

thebruce wrote:
became 'gods' or PMs


Awww, do the PMs know you think of them that way? Razz
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:51 am
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DreamOfTheRood
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Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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Location: Indiana

MMORPG's are games generally placed in a science fiction or fantasy setting where 13-year-old boys think they can get away with griefing you and making fun of your mom. The worst part about it is that they generally have much more free time to develop a character than you do, and you can thus not do much about them.
Oh, and you have to keep paying for a game you have already bought.
Of course, the upside is that you can join guilds that will let you in if you can pass the test, if you can be at practices, if you can be at events, if you've got a good enough machine and if you're cool enough.

*DreamOfTheRood really likes Morrowind.*

On the right topic ... an Ender's Game ARG for the movie, if it ever actually films, would be awesome.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:00 am
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archon
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 250

Since Buffy and Angel are both over and Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy and Angel, is out of work (save his Firefly movie and whatever comics he writes)... BUFFY AND ANGEL ARG!

Oh YES.

Maybe some emails get sent out in a mock-spam type way (but to certain individuals) acting as a newsletter reporting that bloodbanks around the country have suddenly gotten in very short supply of blood, and they're not sure why... go donate blood!

In conjunction with the Red Cross, the Buffy movie ARG begins!

And-and-and... the Buffy movie would be about the actual-real TOTAL END OF THE WORLD APOCALYPSE and manages to encorporate both casts (those who are still alive, at least) all the while pushing the boundaries of what we consider visual entertainment to be!@#E@

This could have big implications on the ARG since I find end of the world Apocalypses to be real darn cool, and wish they happened more often in ARGs that are funded by giant corporations named Microsoft about games that aren't really about end of the world Apocalypses.

BOOYAH.

Edited to add ever-important parenthesis for further clarification of my overwhelming but semi-masculine genius.

Edited again because donating blood is kinda political, and I see that now, but it's for a good cause and I was excited when I thought it up, so sue me.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:09 am
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water10
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 712
Location: EvadeEvadeEvade

Quote:
MMORPG's are games generally placed in a science fiction or fantasy setting where 13-year-old boys think they can get away with griefing you and making fun of your mom.

I can only assume you had bad experiences with mmorpg's ... While part of what you said is true, it certainly isn't the absolute truth. You find kids everywhere! Even on Halo2! Cool

I used to play ultima online (5 years!) and then switch to star wars galaxies (1,5 years). I was always part of a guild of mature/nice people. The social factor on these games is amazing and the community you can form is unbeliveable. Our guild had the first city on the bloodfin server and we use to run a cantina with a dedicated band!

But the big problem with those kinda of games, is time and money. It's too addictive and time consuming! And it costs 15/month ... I quit for a while but I have so many friends that play mmorpg that I know I'll join them eventually. But I'm having so much fun with beekeepers now that I'm not even considering going back to mmorpg's ...

Back to the topic.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:39 am
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Phaedra
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thebruce wrote:
massive multiplayer online role playing game.

basically a persistent fantasy world, where you interact with a bunch of people while playing your RPG character. Generally speaking, there's no 'ultimate goal' to finish the game, just a whole bunch of events, quests and such that you work on until you become your ultimate character.


Aha. Like Everquest. "Persistent fantasy world," "no 'ultimate goal'," etc. -- these are the games that are fueling fears of addiction/inability to tell fantasy from reality/obsessiveness/etc., yes? The people that forget to eat, go on sprees where they play for 48 hours straight, etc.?

thebruce wrote:
When they started as text games on the net, usually the few players who managed to last long enough (meaning by interest - usually many months of man-hours in play time, sometimes more than a year - which, depending on how often you play, can end up to be quite a long time) to not be able to advance any more became 'gods' or PMs, or more commonly, wizards. People who kept the game evolving - they knew the game so much they could alter the world - add new NPCs, events, quests, places...


Hmm. That brings me to a curious thought I had while reading Jane's paper. Which I don't have time to elaborate upon at the moment, since I just *actually got something to do at work*!!! Later.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:57 pm
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HitsHerMark
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1521
Location: Austin, TX

DreamOfTheRood wrote:
MMORPG's are games generally placed in a science fiction or fantasy setting where 13-year-old boys think they can get away with griefing you and making fun of your mom.


They don't get to do that on World of Warcraft, and if they do, they get things done to their account.

Back on track, it's really too bad there was never an X-Files or a Twin Peaks ARG. As those two things would have fit like a glove for the genre.

Bringing it up to more contemporary ideas, Alias and CSI would be good ARG material.

And I have not read the Lemoney Snickett books (which is odd because they seem like exactly the storts of books my Mom would have given to me back in the day), but they seem like they would make a good ARG.

But I defenetly have to second the Tron idea... That would rock like a proverbial hurricane.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:08 pm
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OmegaX
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Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 360
Location: Dartmouth, NS, Canada

archon wrote:
Since Buffy and Angel are both over and Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy and Angel, is out of work (save his Firefly movie and whatever comics he writes)... BUFFY AND ANGEL ARG!

Oh YES.

Maybe some emails get sent out in a mock-spam type way (but to certain individuals) acting as a newsletter reporting that bloodbanks around the country have suddenly gotten in very short supply of blood, and they're not sure why... go donate blood!

In conjunction with the Red Cross, the Buffy movie ARG begins!

And-and-and... the Buffy movie would be about the actual-real TOTAL END OF THE WORLD APOCALYPSE and manages to encorporate both casts (those who are still alive, at least) all the while pushing the boundaries of what we consider visual entertainment to be!@#E@

This could have big implications on the ARG since I find end of the world Apocalypses to be real darn cool, and wish they happened more often in ARGs that are funded by giant corporations named Microsoft about games that aren't really about end of the world Apocalypses.

BOOYAH.

Edited to add ever-important parenthesis for further clarification of my overwhelming but semi-masculine genius.

Edited again because donating blood is kinda political, and I see that now, but it's for a good cause and I was excited when I thought it up, so sue me.


I agree, that would be very cool. Only thing is, at least in my area, not a very big fanbase; ie: only 2-3 people I know, including myself, liked the shows.

Phaedra wrote:
thebruce wrote:
massive multiplayer online role playing game.

basically a persistent fantasy world, where you interact with a bunch of people while playing your RPG character. Generally speaking, there's no 'ultimate goal' to finish the game, just a whole bunch of events, quests and such that you work on until you become your ultimate character.


Aha. Like Everquest. "Persistent fantasy world," "no 'ultimate goal'," etc. -- these are the games that are fueling fears of addiction/inability to tell fantasy from reality/obsessiveness/etc., yes? The people that forget to eat, go on sprees where they play for 48 hours straight, etc.?

thebruce wrote:
When they started as text games on the net, usually the few players who managed to last long enough (meaning by interest - usually many months of man-hours in play time, sometimes more than a year - which, depending on how often you play, can end up to be quite a long time) to not be able to advance any more became 'gods' or PMs, or more commonly, wizards. People who kept the game evolving - they knew the game so much they could alter the world - add new NPCs, events, quests, places...


Hmm. That brings me to a curious thought I had while reading Jane's paper. Which I don't have time to elaborate upon at the moment, since I just *actually got something to do at work*!!! Later.


In response to both the above quote and the quotes within it: MMO's aren't all 'fantasy'; for example City of Heroes. The only way that one's fantasy is in terms of living out the childhood 'fantasy' of being a superhero.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:34 pm
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water10
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Quote:
for example City of Heroes. The only way that one's fantasy


They might not be the traditional RPG fantasy world, but I still consider this fantasy! Even star wars (I'm a huge fan, btw) I consider more fantasy than sci-fi ...


And for those that think mmorpg are not about action, they have a mmfps called planetside! Never played, but I know some people that love it!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice


Joined: 26 Sep 2002
Posts: 3651
Location: Is not Chicago

Personally, I would love to PM a Lemony Snicket ARG. I freaking love those books, and Daniel Handler seems like the type of guy that would love the concept. The websites for the movie are very fun and have some game elements to them, and the kids who read the books and 'get' them would definitely tend to be thinkers and puzzlers.

Man. The thought of it!

Pony?!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:28 pm
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Phaedra
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Joined: 21 Sep 2004
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Phaedra wrote:
Hmm. That brings me to a curious thought I had while reading Jane's paper. Which I don't have time to elaborate upon at the moment, since I just *actually got something to do at work*!!! Later.


And later has arrived.

Jane describes a situation in the Beast in which the PMs slipped up (well, actually an actor got too flustered to deliver a crucial piece of information). The players solved the problem themselves before the PMs had time to react. Jane notes that:

Two months into the game, players were taking on increasing responsibility for their own immersive experience, leaving the game designers out of the problem-solving loop.

This led me to wonder if, in the future, we might not see a non-professionally produced ARG that is self-perpetuating; players that are involved and experienced enough taking control and essentially becoming PMs, then handing off that position to successors.

thebruce's comment that some mmorpg players essentially became like PMs suggests that it's already happening in the mmorpg world; I wonder if it will someday translate to ARGs.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:05 pm
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water10
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Quote:
thebruce's comment that some mmorpg players essentially became like PMs suggests that it's already happening in the mmorpg world; I wonder if it will someday translate to ARGs.


It didn't happen on mmorpg's. It happened on their predecessors: MUD's text-based games. Don't remember what MUD stand for, but it's something like multi user dungeon or something like that.

The truth is mmorpgs are VERY different from ARGs when it comes to immersion! Keep in mind, I'm basing this on my experiences with ILB only! But, no matter how hard you try on a mmorpg, you just don't have the same type of feeling you have in an ARG. On some mmorpg's, players get some help/power from PM's to set up stories/events, but very isolated events and usually 1-day events only.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:17 pm
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Lurking_Kouzou
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
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Heh, Multi User Dungeon is, in fact, correct. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:16 pm
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Clayfoot
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Joined: 19 Aug 2004
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ARG based on altruistic punishment

There's a psychological concept called "altruistic punishment," more commonly known as "revenge." The psychological research gets into the notion of altruistic punishment in human cooperation. Think about it: revenge is usually risky and costly for the person committing it; the revenge-taker may not even benefit directly from taking revenge. So, how in the world did it ever evolve? Well, there's some interesting research on that, of course:

http://www.healthcentral.com/news/NewsFullText.cfm?id=520879
http://ideas.repec.org/p/wpa/wuwpga/0410002.html

The way we worked together (or not) on ILB makes me think there could be a ARG based on altruistic punishment, that changes depending on how players decide to work together or against each other or the PM's. Recall, if you will, the Assassin/Killer live RPG. Imagine that there's something more to be gained or lost than just bumping off all of the other players. Add in people/place/time-based clues or rewards, like GeoCaching and Urban Explorers.

I haven't thought of an ARG-appropriate theme yet, nor what we would "invest" to accumulate "wealth" or "spend" to take "revenge." If developed properly, this game could be immensely fun and satisfying, and it could go on for quite awhile, based on player input.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:22 pm
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angelo
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Phaedra wrote:
This led me to wonder if, in the future, we might not see a non-professionally produced ARG that is self-perpetuating; players that are involved and experienced enough taking control and essentially becoming PMs, then handing off that position to successors.


This is the type of experience I look forward to. Instead of just a story driven ARG such as ILB, it would require a full 'world' where multiple stories connect with one another.

The sheer weight of the potential complexity of such an ARG is bewildering.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:31 pm
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