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 Forum index » Diversions » Console/Video Game Discussion
[Halo 2] [SPEC/SPOILERS] Halo 2 NOT Over? - The Facts
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NSA
Boot

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 54
Location: United States of America

ubersaurus wrote:
Don't forget that with the Elites out of the picture, no one in the covenant is more powerful then the prophets now. I dont' think they were betrayed for letting Regret die-I think they were betrayed because they respected the Humans for their combat prowess, and wanted to get them into the Covenant(or at the least, the SPARTANs). Regret's death was just an excuse.


This is true, but I was playing through again yesterday and noticed an Elite telling the Prophet of Truth they could have gotten to Regret in time if he hadn't ordered their dropships away from Halo. Truth goes on saying "Are you questioning my judgement?" and of course the Elite's back down. I think this proves that Truth was making a power-play and 'let' Regret get taken down. He obviously prefered the Brutes due to above reasons.. little did he know the Gravemind would get ahold of Reget... he'll live to regret that! ha ha.. ah.. ha.. sigh.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:05 pm
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ubersaurus
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I also noticed yesterday, playing through the last Master Chief level, that Truth speaks over the com system of High Charity (as does Gravemind, but I can't figure out what he's saying. Stupid mumbly flood). Truth is clearly making a power play to take total control of the Covenant, when he tells the public that Mercy was there with him, advising him, when we damn well know Mercy's dead.

I'm not sure if this is all a power play by the prophets as a whole, or just Truth.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:29 pm
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mattat
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
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Location: Wirral, UK

SPEC-athon

As to the whole flood/gravemind things - my opinion is something along these lines (sorry is this is obvious):

The Flood are an artificial race/virus/weapon/side effect created by the forerunners for some reason. They may not have been deliberate but an offshoot of some other experiment that the forerunners were carrying out - e.g. when trying to extend their lives artificially they accidentally created the flood.

My evidence for the above is the interpretation of the Gravemind's comment that is something like - I am a monument to your past sins. (I'm making an assumption here that the forerunners are in someway antecedants of humans)

The flood then proved themselves to be exceptionally dangerous with the possibility of taking over all sentient life in the universe. The forerunners knew this and so set up the Halo system as a failsafe to wipe out the food source including themselves, for the flood in this galaxy (or almost all of it).

The Halo's themselves were intended to function mainly as a laboratory to study the Flood, possibly finding weaknesses that would allow the forerunners to fight them without having to wipe most of themselves out by using the Halo system. Flood (or at least infection forms) were stored on Halo's and were meant to be studied. The monitors were put in place as part of the failsafe security system, designed to deal with small outbreaks (e.g. a couple of infection forms) by virtue of it's sentinels. The ultimate failsafe of activating the halo system's could only be activated by a forerunner (acting as a reclaimer - reclaiming the index, safely stored in the library) - which Guilty Spark/Penitent Tangeant confuse with the master chief.

At some point the flood get out of control - possibly because the Forerunners lose their battle to contain them (Not on the Halo's, but where else they were) and so are forced to activate the Halo system. They know that this will wipe out themselves and so they have a system to allow some of their race to carry on. This is the Ark - i.e. Earth. This might be protected from the Halo effect by virtue of it's position - the Halo's wipe clean all life but have a tiny spot that the blast waves do not reach - Earth. A few forerunners (enough to continue the race, but massively reduced in number) are placed on earth, and terraform it - hence similar features to the Halos.

As a result of being cut off from all other forerunners they rapidly lose all the technology that they had developed, and recede to a primitive form of society. (Another perhaps more plausible explanation is that the forerunners placed on the ark where done so without technology, and possible even knowledge of who they were, in order that they cannot get off the ark in the short term (i.e. several millenia) until they have developed as a society again. The hope is that they will be able to rebuild themselves but won't fall into the mistake of creating something like the flood again.)

The halos activate and most of the galaxy is wiped out including the forerunners not on earth. The flood have no food source and die out, except on the Halos themselves (and possibly other forerunner science stations) where they are still stored in infection form and lie dormant until the covenant come digging. Hence the monitor's comment that he's glad some of the flood survived - he is designed to study and contain the flood. His job can carry on studying the flood.

The covenant are probably a collection of other races in the universe that arose from either outside the galaxy, or possibly after the last activation of the Halos. They were able to get ahead of humans in terms of technology, because the worlds on which they arose had forerunner technology on it, and so they adapted this and were able to use it to their advantage. They are obsessed by gathering forerunner technology and saw us as a backwards race that had arisen around where the forerunners had some vital technology and so were a threat to be wiped out. Perhaps the prophets have realised what we truely represent now, and hence they won't allow us to join the covenant, because that would be mean that they have commanded a war against the very gods that they idolize and realise that this would mean certain downfall by them at the hands of the elites and hunters.

Comments welcome - sorry for long post

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:08 am
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thebruce
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very interesting...

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I know, I'm helpful aren't I
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:54 pm
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ubersaurus
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I don't think the meaning behind 343 GS's comment on being glad to see some of them survived to reproduce will actually come forth until we know what the hell the ark is. If the ark is merely a remote activation device, then I'd wager that he means humanity(assuming humans=forerunner). Otherwise, he could mean Flood.

Also, something I noticed in the Heretic level, when you first walk into a room with infection forms, they're floating around in a tank. I'm assuming whatever they're floating in, is what keeps em in stasis, or dormant, or whatever you want to call it.

Either way, all it would take is one major cataclysm(like a halo firing) and all that civilization and technology would probably just drop to the wayside within a few generations. So forerunners on earth would probably descend into a dark age for thousands of years (similar to Starflight's Arthlings, on a larger timescale).
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:32 pm
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mattat
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My take on the Ark (based simply on the name), is that it was a way for Forerunners to survive - e.g. it was the planet Earth itself. The fact that it has a facility to remote detonate the Halo's sort of makes sense, in that if the Forerunners on the Ark realised that the Halo system had been interrupted e.g. by the flood then they could finish the job from there.

Otherwise they would be sitting ducks on Earth.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:57 am
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ThaJinx
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I honestly think that the concept of the Ark is metaphorical and not literal. I can't imagine anything but the ILB artifact being the Ark. It would explain why 343 Guilty Spark doesn't answer when Keyes asks where it is, because if it was found floating in space and brought to Earth then he wouldn't know. It would also explain why the Prophets do know where it is.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:36 am
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KwayZeeyT
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Joined: 07 Oct 2004
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My impression after watching the LE DVD, is that there may be a good bit of Halo 2.5/3 done already. I'm guessing just the stuff they had to cut out to get H2 to fit/done in time could almost make another game. I've been to a few sites myself. There is everything out there from February 9th speculation, a "leaked" story/plot line, Xbox 2, downloadable levels... and so on and so on.

Do I want to see how this story ends? Yes
Do I want to wait 3 years for it? No (Waiting for the new Star Wars is bad enough) Wink
Do I want to have to buy the next game console to play the next installment? No
Do I want to be able to use the Hunter's weapon? YES
Will I get what I want? Probably not.

As far as February 9th is concerned, I think with what has been hinted to it will be some new Multiplayer Levels for downloading. Just my $.02.

**Edit** Here is an interesting article from IGN. Epilogue: Halo 2
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:02 am
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ThaJinx
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pst...there is no Feb.9th action. Sorry, had to say it, that rumor pisses me off.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:15 pm
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DreamOfTheRood
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I actually had a pretty excellent post which detailed the whole February 9th rumor, giving links to all the sources who posted the rumor and the sites that debunked it; however, I can't be bothered to search for it now. The rumor started with gamersutopia, who I will now come out and call a group of lying, conniving thieves who started a rumor mainly to get hits on their webpage. They made up the February 9 thing.
Bungie has come out and said that there is no programming at the end of the credits with Feb 9 on it, and I'm inclined to believe this company, which I love so much that I might just explode into <3's.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:19 pm
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4dSwissCheese
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My guess is that the ark either is or is on the moon. My reasons are:

1) Given the final cinematic, it seems to be the general consensus that the ark is in our solar system.

2) In an interview in 2003, a Bungie guy said there was going to be a level on the moon in Halo 2. I don't remember where the interview is, but it was the same one where they said that Halo 2 was going to conclude the storyline (eg. before they decided to cut back on how far along in the story Halo 2 was going to go). Since we haven't see it yer, it seems reasonable to assume that this moon level is set after MC's return to our solar system. And given what we know thus far, it seems to me that the most likely reason for a moon level would be that the ark is there.

3) Bungie's predilection for using moons as spacecraft.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:48 pm
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ubersaurus
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4dSwissCheese wrote:
My guess is that the ark either is or is on the moon. My reasons are:

1) Given the final cinematic, it seems to be the general consensus that the ark is in our solar system.

2) In an interview in 2003, a Bungie guy said there was going to be a level on the moon in Halo 2. I don't remember where the interview is, but it was the same one where they said that Halo 2 was going to conclude the storyline (eg. before they decided to cut back on how far along in the story Halo 2 was going to go). Since we haven't see it yer, it seems reasonable to assume that this moon level is set after MC's return to our solar system. And given what we know thus far, it seems to me that the most likely reason for a moon level would be that the ark is there.

3) Bungie's predilection for using moons as spacecraft.


Never thought of that. It could be...I mean, consider how odd the moon is. From Earth, it's the exact same size in the sky as the sun. It provides protection from stellar objects, gives us tidal forces, and all that good stuff...without it, I question if we'd even be around.

For Halo 3, I'd like them to fill in the rest of the game (i.E. not halo 2 throwbacks) telling the fight for earth from other groups, like the other SPARTAN-IIs, or maybe the 1.1s. We still don't know what the hell Halsey was up to in First Strike.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:58 pm
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sam
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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What ever happened about the password protected bits on the h2 website? login for update/download of H2.5 and real ending?
?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:08 am
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ubersaurus
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according to Frankie from Bungie, something subtle happens if you collect all the skulls in single player mode in the order from the soundtrack cd. I don't know if it's story related, but hell, it's worth mentioning.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:39 pm
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jellyfish_green
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Human=Forerunner theory

ubersaurus wrote:

Never thought of that. It could be...I mean, consider how odd the moon is. From Earth, it's the exact same size in the sky as the sun. It provides protection from stellar objects, gives us tidal forces, and all that good stuff...without it, I question if we'd even be around.


Plus there's that well-proportioned black monolith. But my money's still on the South American pyramid from Pathways into Darkness. Smile

Further weight for the Human=Forerunner theory follows.

very early Cortana Letters
cortana_TFL13.txt wrote:

Entry: 97 - SC1C

In a relatively brief period of time, the achievements of SolCore had resulted in an economically stable, technologically mature, rapidly expanding empire of eight human worlds. Advancements in technology arrived at a faster pace than the most optimistic scientists could have ever envisioned. Unexpected contact with indigenous human populations on four "lost colony" worlds led to a frenzy of research as archaeologists, theologians, astronomers, and evolutionary biologists competed to offer an explanation for the startling discovery. Many accepted the findings as proof that their privileged civilization must surely be the most advanced in the universe. Others eagerly anticipated future interaction with intelligent "aliens". The fear of not being the only sentient species in the universe was forgotten in the giddy excitement of a new era for humanity.


In "First Strike", the novel, the hidden Forerunner cavern on Reach was opened by contact with human blood.

343_Guilty_Spark wrote:
Hurry, Reclaimer! We have much to do!
...You can't imagine how exciting this is! To have a record of all our lost time! Human history, is it? Fascinating.
etc.

Ubersaurus, where exactly do the Elites suggest bringing Humans into the Covenant?

PS. patterns:
Guilty Spark
Pentient Tangent
Bad Idea?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:25 am
Last edited by jellyfish_green on Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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