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[Halo 2] [SPEC/SPOILERS] Halo 2 NOT Over? - The Facts
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Anton P. Nym
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
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Location: London, Canada

 		Re: Human=Forerunner theory
jellyfish_green wrote:
Ubersaurus, where exactly do the Elites suggest bringing Humans into the Covenant?

I'm not Ubersaurus (nor do I play him on TV), but I can answer that one. If you got the Limited Edition, it's in the Conversations From the Universe insert... a transcript of one Elite talking to another.

Quote:
PS. patterns:
Guilty Spark
Pentient Tangent
Bad Idea?

How's this for a pattern:
Spark = dot
Tangent = line
? = triangle

-- Steve's made a prediction that the next Monitor we encounter will have a synonym for "triangle" as the last part of his/its name. Now we must wait to see if it's correct. And wait. And wait...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:57 am
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thebruce
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 		Re: Human=Forerunner theory
Quote:
How's this for a pattern:
Spark = dot
Tangent = line
? = triangle

hmm...

Halo 01 - 1 (7^0) ?
Halo 02 - 7 (7^1) ?
Halo 03 - 49 (7^2) ?
Halo 04 - 343 (7^3) Guilty Spark
Halo 05 (delta: V) - 2401 (7^4) Penitent Tangent
Halo 06 - 16807 (7^5) ?
Halo 07 - 117649 (7^6) ?

hehe
? - Judged - Convicted - Guilty - Penitent - Forgiven/Acquitted? - Free?
? - Concept - Thought - Spark - Tangent - Prism/Trio? - Cube? Pandora? Smile
what could Halo 1's monitor be? hmm...
interesting topic, whoever thought of the monitor progressions...good call Smile

hehe Halo 07 - 117649 Free Pandora Laughing
but the first monitor sounds like it could be something prety intense...
I like Convicted Thought though... sounds kule. Judged Concept, meh, doesn't quite work. Other thoughts? It's like the words are synonyms or symbols for the item in the sequence... one=dot=spark, two=line=tangent, etc... of course, that's a theory, as anton said above.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:35 pm
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ubersaurus
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 		Re: Human=Forerunner theory
Anton P. Nym wrote:
jellyfish_green wrote:
Ubersaurus, where exactly do the Elites suggest bringing Humans into the Covenant?

I'm not Ubersaurus (nor do I play him on TV), but I can answer that one. If you got the Limited Edition, it's in the Conversations From the Universe insert... a transcript of one Elite talking to another.



Correctomundo. Here's the transcript:

Quote:

The Humans are weak, but they are tenacious. Even the smallest ones hurl themselves against our defenses with honor. If only the Unggoy were as commited.

I wonder about the humans, commander. Their technology is limited, but some of it is useful and their battle techniques are impressive.They are excellent stategists. But what I ask is this: Why have we not offered them the absolution of the Covenant? From the beginning of this war, the Prophets have made no attempts to absorb them or even offer the option of honorable submission. Why?

Perhaps they fear them? We do not know where their homeworld is. Their pattern of retreat is either hopelessly random, or brilliantly concieved. What if the Humans have more power, more numbers then we suspect. What if they lead us to a trap?

No, I do not think that is the reasoning. They continue to lose territory, and pattern or no pattern, these defenses must be part of a perimeter. I suspect we are forcing them into a tighter arena than they care to fight in-soon we may be able to use the Sharquoi. And their victories, however few, always rely on the same thing-strategy, brute force, or luck. No. The only secret they hold is the location of their homeworld.

What of the atrocity at Halo? That was not luck, nor brute force. The Demon is a mystery. he outwitted and outfought entire legions on Halo. Perhaps there are more like him?

I do not believe that. We have seen their kind before and destroyed them. Their numbers have dwindled and there have been no reported sightings since our victory at Reach.

Then why do we continue to hunt them> When surely they merit consideration to accept and embrace the Covenant?

Let us discuss this at a more prudent moment. A Jiralhanae approaches.


Unggoy=grunt, and Jiralhanae=Brute, in case you don't know Coviespeak.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:52 pm
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DreamOfTheRood
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 		And Sharquoi? What are those?
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SuperJerms
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 		Well, since they won't buy me much, I'll just give you my two cents.

It seems to me that the Ark is somewhere on the Earth. Borrowing from the metaphorical meanings of the Noah's ark, I would spec that the forerunner finished the Ark just in time for the Flood to be at the level of catastrophe, then hopped inside and nuked the galaxy. I haven't heard it said here yet, though... I think the Ark was one specific structure on the Earth, not the entire Earth. That way, civilization is blastenated back to the stone age. In Noah's Ark, only a few folks survived. Civilization disappears very quickly when you only have five people to repopulate the universe.

I think the ILB artifact was a minor plot point. I thought I remembered something from the Sean/Elan/Jane interview where they said they just ran with a very small part of the overall Haloverse. I think the Ark would be just a bit more than I would trust to be outsourced, if I were Bungie. Also, the ILB artifact had time-warp properties, and (unless it was some sort of field generator) wouldn't have protected humanity from a Halo blast. Finally, something about how GS talked about the Ark makes me think it is a large installation, not a mobile object.

Quote:
my money's still on the South American pyramid from Pathways into Darkness.

I think this is it...after all, the index rooms on Halo 4 and Delta both looked like some South American pyramid, and it would make continuity between Bungie games.

I think the Brutes are being favored above the Eliets because the Prophets know that will make a race war between the two. The Prophets know more than they let on about the prophecies (well, maybe not Regret...he is the nub Prophet according to the coded entry in the CftU insert). They are worried about Humanity because we are the gods their religion centers on, and nothing threatens a theocracy more than its own god. After that, the council and guards are the only remaining threats to power. Make the Brutes fight the Eliets, and you are the only remaining power.

Why was Regret underarmed for invading Earth? He didn't see it coming. He was just following the signature of the ILB EMP blast, expecting to find an artifact on some backwater planet. Surprise, he stumbled across Earth. Again, the CftU insert tells us that they didn't know where Earth was. The Cole Protocol worked, it seems.

How does this fit in with them knowing where the Earth was in the third Halo novel? Dunno, unless that is later in the timeline than H2. If the third novel IS later in the timeline than Halo2, that would explain what is happening next. MC goes and blows up the armada, which is en route to Earth. And what of the ILB artifact? I really doubt it was a remote Halo trigger. That was speculation by our beloved, but underinformed ILB characters. Just because they hinted towards that explanation does not make them right. It makes most sense that the ILB artifact was a MacGuffin. With all the Forerunner tech out there, it's not too hard to make an artifact that messes with time and energy but is not related to the Halos.

Sorry for the long post
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:35 pm
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ubersaurus
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DreamOfTheRood wrote:
And Sharquoi? What are those?


No one outside Bungie knows, and all they're saying is that it's pretty damn dangerous.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:00 pm
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Anton P. Nym
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DreamOfTheRood wrote:
And Sharquoi? What are those?

Get that one right, and win a prize. We don't know, and it's driving some of us squirrelly.

-- Steve wonders if they're the Drinol, or maybe the Scarab walking tanks. But they also could be something entirely different...
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ubersaurus
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Anton P. Nym wrote:
DreamOfTheRood wrote:
And Sharquoi? What are those?

Get that one right, and win a prize. We don't know, and it's driving some of us squirrelly.

-- Steve wonders if they're the Drinol, or maybe the Scarab walking tanks. But they also could be something entirely different...


The current theory is that it isn't the Scarab, since the Scarab is theorized to be the "insectlike drilling machine" from First Strike. It kinda makes sense-it's the only covenant machine that looks insectine(and legs=more stability on uneven terrain), it's main gun certainly doesn't fire fast enough to be a real useful weapon, and, all through metropolis, that thing was running, rather then outright fighting.

My guess is that the Sharquoi is either some weapon on the Forerunner ship, or a covenant species brought out only for the most extreme circumstances-like a super hunter.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:10 am
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archon
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SuperJerms wrote:
Finally, something about how GS talked about the Ark makes me think it is a large installation, not a mobile object.

Quote:
my money's still on the South American pyramid from Pathways into Darkness.

I think this is it...after all, the index rooms on Halo 4 and Delta both looked like some South American pyramid, and it would make continuity between Bungie games.


The pyramid that you play inside in the Yucatan Peninsula in Pathways was built over a "dreaming god", which later in the Marathon trilogy appears to have been a W'rkncacnter. The pyramid got its power from the dreaming god, and assuming you successfully accomplished your mission on-time in the game, the Jjaro were supposed to come and take it away or otherwise deal with it. Even if Halo and the Marathon universe were connected (which is unlikely due to the mismatching timelines, among other reasons), this does not explain why the pyramid is the Ark when it presumably no longer has its power, or if it even still exists after the nuclear bomb you armed in it went off. Sure, the Jjaro are similar to the Forerunner, but what about the W'rkies? Why haven't they been brought up when they're the only enemy that appears to have challeneged the Jjaro? Could they be the Flood? Again, unlikely since there are legends that speak of the W'rks trapped in suns, swimming on their surface but not being burned by it. The Flood can be destroyed by Halos and shotguns and intense heat.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:39 am
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jellyfish_green
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archon wrote:
Even if Halo and the Marathon universe were connected (which is unlikely due to the mismatching timelines, among other reasons), this does not explain why the pyramid is the Ark when it presumably no longer has its power, or if it even still exists after the nuclear bomb you armed in it went off.


Looseness of connections aside, I still would be tempted to throw in some sort of reference, even on the level of ONI the game & ONI the department. Some allusions to Babylonian cuniform triangle writing in the Forerunner script, for instance. The Fifth Element and Stargate have the Egyptian pyramid angle all sewn up. I would want to incorporate the Mayan calendar but that has the world ending in 2012, and that's a little soon for Bungie's scale of events. (Heck, that's a little soon for my mortgage, come to think of it.) So who else has famous pyramids? Babylonians and Incas, top of my head.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:33 am
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archon
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jellyfish_green wrote:
Looseness of connections aside, I still would be tempted to throw in some sort of reference, even on the level of ONI the game & ONI the department.


Absolutely, Bungie's thing is to hint back to previous games. Just like their fav-o number is seven, you'll see subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle references to previous games they've done, even when they're not connected by story. For example the Marathon symbol is everywhere in Halo. Captain Keyes' pipe has the Marathon symbol on it, and even the original Halo logo has the Marathon symbol in the middle of it. Halo 2 isn't the first Bungie FPS game where you could dual wield weapons, either. Part of the fun of being a long time Bungie fan is spotting this stuff they drop in.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:33 pm
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SuperJerms
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 		Well maybe not that specific pyramid, but some other one that we attribute as Aztec, Mayan, or something else? Seems like too much of a coincidence that both halos so far have the activation room in a Mayan-esque structure, and that we have those in Central/Southern America.

I guess we could get wacky and say it's Atlantis, the dinasour-killing meteor site, or that PtD's Cluthlu was a different grave mind.

Anyhoo, like jelly said, SG and 5E are just a couple of pyramid-related-god-races in science fiction.

If we can find the Ark, we will have Santa Claus once and for all!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:19 pm
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ABoxInABox
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 		My 2 cents, and maybe some more cents at a later stage:

SuperJerms wrote:
Also, the ILB artifact had time-warp properties, and (unless it was some sort of field generator) wouldn't have protected humanity from a Halo blast.

We don't know what the Halo blasts are made of. Judging from the last scene (I won't say what), it could have been electrical, plasmatic, or something we dont know about. It could be that a powerful EMP could protects a certain area from a Halo blast. I remember that the Artifact's EMP knocked out at least communications for the entire solar system, so the distance of the EMP should have been more than enough to cover Earth.

I think the Ark is Earth, rather than a structure on Earth. Like it was said earlier (more or less), the situation is too perfect to incubate any kind of life, let alone keep humanity/forerunity going. I also think that the Earth is artificial (sounds like Hitchhikers Guide, 7*7-7), and an Artifact similar to the one found as part of ILB was placed on Earth an activated at just the right moment to protect the inhabitants, or at least a small area on Earth. The EMP would have knocked out every electrical component in the solar system, and with no one readily able to turn the power back on, they came into disrepair and disappeared. Space stations and ships without electricity would have started to degrade in thier orbit, and burn up in an atmosphere or crashed into a surface. Therefore the human/forerunner race went back to basics (stone age basics is really basic) and started again.

Another thing I thought about is, what about the dinosurs? If Earth wasn't artificial, then dinosuars existed on the planet before the humans/forerunners came and decided that they needed it. The dinosaurs were wiped out by the forerunners! Well, it explains thier sudden extinction without bringing in complicated stuff like metors.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:37 pm
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underscore_b
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 		Just on the subject of the Ark...

It might not necessarily be an Ark in the sense of a ship. Although the Biblical (Genesis) parallel of the Ark/Flood is a possibility, in Ancient Hebrew an ark is simply a box, a vessel or container. However, Deuteronomy speaks of the Ark of the Covenant, a source f immense power that contained no less than God's own presence. In the Old Testament a man once accidentally touched the Ark and was immediately struck dead.

Bearing in mind the Great Journey of the Israelites and the Prophets who led them, I think we might be onto something...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:17 pm
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thebruce
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 		yeah, I was just about to say...
The Ark the covvies are referring to could very well be the same (kind of?) artifact from ilovebees, with immense power, just as the Ark of the Covenant was considered to be as in Raiders of the Lost Ark... Biblically, the AotC was a holy artifact containing sacred objects. The 'power' that was derived from that is basically God's wrath on those who unworthily came into contact with that holiness, in contact with God himself. Gotta look up the history of the Ark in the Bible, but generally, the parallel is the the Ark contains God's wrath. In Indiana Jones, the nazi's thought they could use it as a weapon, and get the 'treasures' from it...

But really, it's quite possible that the Covenant view this Ark as a similar object - a very powerful artifact from their gods. ie, I still hold that in that sense, the Ark would be the Halo series detonator, and likely the ILB artifact.

If the ark is paralleling to Noah's ark, then my personal feeling is that it's still a reference to earth as a whole... but who knows... hopefully Bungie will dispell this in the next plot advancement Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:51 pm
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