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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Legend of the Sacred Urns
PM Chat
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Author Message
Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

 		PM Chat
Although we're still waiting for final verification, it looks like the PM Chat is scheduled to be this Thursday at 9pm EST in #steinitz.

For those of you with mIRC, you can access the chat room is irc.chat-solutions.org #steinitz

For those who'd prefer accessing the chat through the java applet, use this link


If you can't attend the chat, but have a question you'd still like to ask feel free to post it here. We'll try to get everyone's questions answered as time allows. We'll also post a transcript afterwards. Thanks!
_________________
"I still miss him to this day and probably always will." - Todd Keeler, Chasing the Wish

"meta meta meta, I made you out of play..." ~ j5

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:27 am
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cvk_0
Boot


Joined: 07 Nov 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Canada, eh!

 		question(s)
I'd like to ask the following question to the PM(s?):
Where did the inspiration come from and/or how did you choose the content for the puzzles?

thanks!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:48 pm
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TheDom
Guest


 		Re: PM Chat
Varin wrote:
If you can't attend the chat, but have a question you'd still like to ask feel free to post it here. We'll try to get everyone's questions answered as time allows. We'll also post a transcript afterwards. Thanks!


Varin
If you have the opportunity, could you please ask Mike what was the meaning of:
"Solve the puzzle of Dagobert Steinitz
And soon the treasure shall be yours
But puzzlers be warned, for triple your wits
Would make you but worthy of sweeping his floors!"
-From one of Steinitz' original invitations, October, 1969"

Thank you

I look forward to seeing you transcript.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:16 pm
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TheDom
Guest


 		Re: PM Chat
TheDom wrote:

I look forward to seeing you transcript.


Ooopps typo your not you Laughing

In addition to the above question, if you get the opportunity, I would also like to know the reasoning behind the quote and its' relevance towards the puzzle:
"All persons are puzzles until at last we find in some word or act the key to the man, to the woman; straightway all their past words and actions lie in light before us" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Thank you once again

Very Happy

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:54 pm
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bill
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 614
Location: Tampa

 		Format for the PM Chat

We're expected a nice crowd tonight for the chat. To keep things organized, tonight's chat will be moderated by myself and Varin. At the appointed hour, we will enable moderation of the chatroom. If you are unfamiliar with how IRC operates, this means you won't be able to speak.

Starting about 8:45, Varin and I will start taking questions for the chat. To ask questions, PM myself or Varin. The easiest way to do this is to type:

Code:
/msg bill [ask your question here].

or
Code:
/msg varin [ask your questions here].


Varin and I will keep a list to make sure everyone gets a turn and to eliminate duplicate questions. We will message you back to confirm or give you a chance to change your question if it's a duplicate. We will also tell you who you will follow so you can be ready. To expedite the questions, please have your question typed or ready to paste and be ready to hit enter when you have your turn.

As each person gets their turn, Varin or I will voice you so you can ask your question. Depending on the number of people with questions, we hope to allow time for a follow up question (flup). Questions from the forum will be mixed in with the live attendees.

These types of chats usually run one to two hours depending on the availability of the PuppetMasters. Once the official chat is over, the room will become unmoderated and everyone will again be able to talk freely.

Within a couple of minutes, someone will undoubtedly post the transcript here. Within an hour or so, I will have a cleaned up copy of the transcript posted to http://deaddrop.us.
_________________
Bill
http://deaddrop.us/
Dedicated to Alternate Reality Gaming

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:55 pm
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ArgTEG
Kilroy

Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 1

 		Why was it decided to post the answer on blogspot?

Is there any meaning to any of this on the rlebron site? :

#1: What is significant about the names (Uncle Ron, Aunt Beth, Billy, Anne, Steve)?

#2: Why did Uncle Ron name his Dodge RAM truck "Ronda" ?

#3: What was Steve's mishap that required the fire department?

#4: Who is the Silvio who usually does Anne's hair?

#5: Is the change from "boring" to "serene" more than just a new perspective?

#6: What really did happen at the site of the First Log House ?


Were the following all Red Herring clues and/or random coincidences? :

#1: Skulls
#2: Eclipses
#3: 2012
#4: Mike's Drawing

What clues were to be found on
www.steinitzskulls.com (founded 1995),
www.steinitztowing.com (founded 1979),
and www.steinitzdds.com ?


What is the full significance of the "Battle of Guararapes" in relation to the puzzle ?

What is the significance of Marlene's birthday ?

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:15 pm
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be

 		Here's an unedited version of the chat for those that just can't wait. There will be an edited, much easier to read version up later.
steinitzPMchat.txt
Description  PM chat
 txt

 Download 
Filename  steinitzPMchat.txt 
Filesize  56.75KB 
Downloaded  471 Time(s) 
_________________
"I still miss him to this day and probably always will." - Todd Keeler, Chasing the Wish

"meta meta meta, I made you out of play..." ~ j5

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:13 am
Last edited by Varin on Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bill
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 614
Location: Tampa

 		Cleaned up chat can be found at deaddrop.us
_________________
Bill
http://deaddrop.us/
Dedicated to Alternate Reality Gaming

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:13 am
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TheDom
Guest


 		Varin and Bill

I would just like to say thank you to the both of you for you time and effort in making this chat possible.

You both have helped to give us "another peak behind the curtains".

Thank you once again

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:57 am
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		thanks
Bill and varin:Thanks for setting up the chat and posting the log. Very interesting discussion about the game. The idea for a documentary is hilarious - I imagine scenes of sleep deprived and mildly obsessed people sitting in front of their computers searching on google (and not msn), writing lists of anagrams while on a plane and searching for small towns on maps of the US. I would definitely watch it.

It is odd though that the solve to the puzzle didn't exist anywhere online until they made the fake blog about it. I find that an interesting choice for them to make in the game ( I mean contest).

Great game and great fun.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:41 pm
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RobDixon
Boot


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 41
Location: San Rafael, California

 		Constructive Criticism
The PM Chat was excellent. Thanks go to the PM's who took took the time to sit in the hot seat and share so much information about this captivating puzzle.

Now, in the spirit of constructive criticism, I thought I'd suggest some things that might have helped the final solution feel more solid. I'm posting this here instead of at the regular SP forums since this is definitely an "out of game" post.

During the PM chat, of the creators pointed out that he saw the three urn sequences as a trilogy:

1. Peter's story, finding the first urn
2. Peter, Mike, and Natalie's story, finding the second urn
3. The collective story that we (the puzzlers) wrote, about "one of those darn puzzler kids" finding the third urn

This is a cool concept, but from a narrative point of view it fell a little flat. I know some of us were hoping for a grand tie-in to all of the story points, which clearly was too much to ask given the time and production constraints the creators faced. But even within those constraints they could have done a few small things to improve the continuity and generate a much better reaction from us. For example:

* Mentioning some kind of clue that was found on the second urn, and what NMP's prize was for finding the urn

* Having at least one more NMP blog post saying NMP are concerned because thousands of puzzlers are now going crazy to find the third urn

* Having a final blog post in early January saying the Steinitz estate notfied Peter that someone else has found the third urn. He could curse those darn puzzler kids! Mike could say the community effort that led to the third urn discovery proves his theory about all things being connected or something.

* Some teeny tiny tie-in to Steinitz' Unified Theory/Homo superus somewhere near the end would have been great. Like a mini Steinitz skull in the gift shop window, for example. Some token that said 'Steinitz was here.'

* Even better would have been some kind of official indication that the Leeds blog was "it". I know, it would have been hard to keep the puzzlers interested after the Leeds blog discovery if it looked too official. But in retrospect, some of the other solutions that were posted were just as valid as the Leeds solution! The only thing that differentiated the Leeds solution from some others was the Leeds blog site. And that site could have been a hoax, as Dylan demonstrated when he set up his blog parody site.

A few things like these could have been done with minimal effort, and they really would have helped everyone be more satisfied with the solution.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:49 pm
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RobDixon
Boot


Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 41
Location: San Rafael, California

 		Here in shorthand form are the clues leading up to the Leeds solution:

1. The Music is Key + Mike's tooth music = Barber of Seville

2. Steinitz' obsession with chess & unnatural deaths = Paul Morphy

3. HEIGH-HO anagram = THE GAME REACHED OPERATIC HEIGHTS

4. Morphy + BoS + OPERATIC HEIGHTS = The Opera Game

5. The Opera Game + Letter Squares + Keep track of where they came from = BETWEEN ATHENS AND CAIRO

6. Value in faces...cannot be said of places = Athens and Cairo are in the U.S.

7. OHPS LUNSHUK! Caesar code = Hail England

8. Hail England + The Route Leads There = Town of Leeds (New York)

9. HIDEOUS NERD THREATENS HOT anagram = THE URN SITE HONORS THE DEAD

10. HONORS THE DEAD + Leeds = Leeds War Memorial

11. Leeds War Memorial + 2 Names out of order = Bloznelis/Simpkins or Anable/Lampman or...(uncertainty)


Now let's look at one of the other solutions posted: Oxford, Georgia which was first described here http://forums.steinitzpuzzlers.com/index.php?showtopic=796&view=findpost&p=8584.

1-7. Same as above.

8. Hail England + Letter Squares = Town of Oxford (Georgia)

9. HIDEOUS NERD THREATENS HOT anagram = SOUTHERN SHRINE TO THE DEAD

10. SOUTHERN SHRINE + Oxford, Georgia = Shrine Historical Marker

11. Shrine Historical Marker + 2 Names out of order = Atticus G. Haygood Warren A. Candler


This is just the first one I picked; others might be just as good. The Oxford, Georgia solution actually has one small advantage over Leeds: there is much less ambiguity about which two names on the marker are out of order.

The point here isn't to complain about the final solution. It's to suggest that some other kind of confirmation about the Leeds blog site really was needed. Cool

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:24 pm
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HaxanMike
Veteran


Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 76
Location: Brooklyn, NY

 		Rob,

Interesting thoughts, but I disagree that the final solution needed further confirmation. In actuality, the number/name of the jpg containing the solution corresponding to the number on the spectrocraniometer (02270) seems to me to be a pretty definite confirmation of what has been found.

In your Oxford, GA example, that solution requires using the letter squares twice, which was a pretty explicit "no-no."

I would have liked to continue PMN blogs but the time frame and budget constraints just didn't allow for it, unfortunately. Also, I think it is possible that continuing the stories would have caused even more confusion. Look at it from our point of view --

Literally, EVERYTHING we said or wrote would be torn apart and examined as a "clue" of some sort. One thing puzzlers never did was work to figure out a system for determining what are important clues and what is just stuff that exists (i.e. "CHECK YOUR LOCAL YELLOW PAGES"). I think the problems you are trying to solve are really symptoms of this bigger problem, which is that the clues should have been integrated better, so that some sort of pattern would have emerged and allowed everyone to determine the veracity of a "clue."

Good points, all, RobDixon -- thanks for posting them.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:36 pm
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rose
...and then Magic happens


Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 4117

 		good idea
HaxanMike wrote:
Quote:
One thing puzzlers never did was work to figure out a system for determining what are important clues and what is just stuff that exists (i.e. "CHECK YOUR LOCAL YELLOW PAGES").


This is a valid point. I am sure that people had their own systems and ideas of what was important. But the list of clues became cluttered as far as the group forum was concerned.

I recall trying to get people to budge on the Mary Queen of Scotts clue which obviously lead nowhere, to me at least. But I couldn't get people to agree to exclude it, even after I came up with my "orange marmalade theory."

As for confirming the site was real, I think you may have had to denounce the site if it was created to mislead people by an unscrupulous player. I can't come up with a convincing argument for why a PM would have to validate the correct site containing the final solutio. To do so would effectively hand over the answer and end the game early. I suppose there is no way to end a contest earlier than the date that has been provided so it has to continue even after the winning answer has been submitted ( of course when setting up the game, the PMs are basically making a guess at how long it will take to solve, so it could have been right up until the last minute, at least in theory.)

As for having the stories continue, perhaps the reason they didn't is that this was a "contest" and not a "game" in which the telling of the story is of primary concern. There is a huge difference in this marketing campaign and that of ilovebees. Bungie has a whole "Haloverse" of stories it has created as part of selling the games and books and Halo stuff. The Haloverse was arguably the product Bungie was marketing with ilovebees, not just "buy a copy of Halo 2." Sharp meanwhile doesn't have or need a universe of stories about television sets. (although they did have a cute Sharp history and timeline.) Continuing the story of the characters may have made it more immersive for the players, but from Sharp's perspective it really served no purpose.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:10 pm
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HaxanMike
Veteran


Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 76
Location: Brooklyn, NY

 		Re: good idea
rose wrote:
As for confirming the site was real, I think you may have had to denounce the site if it was created to mislead people by an unscrupulous player. I can't come up with a convincing argument for why a PM would have to validate the correct site containing the final solutio.


Just to say on the record, had someone created a website and attempted to claim it as the final solution, I would not have denounced it. I only drew the line at one place, and that was if someone claimed to have "inside information" when they did not, then I shot them down. Anything else, to me, would have been fair game. Not nice, but fair!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:35 pm
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