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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: General » ARG: Sable & Shuck
"Aleph meets Starr"
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Morgan
Kl00

Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 42
Location: Yongin, Korea

 		Legends and Folklore
Actually, I think maybe it is a hint. I haven't heard it referred to as the Madra Dubh before (because I don't speak Irish) but folklore is one of my obsessions. And black dogs of Ireland have some very interesting characteristics.

Many are said to portend a death, and many are said to haunt specific locations (esp. crossroads). Also, in many occasions of folklore, they are associated with lightning and killing people that way. I know we know that the black dog was at the crossroads (Devil Dog, as according to Hornchurch Star), but as far as I know, no one really looked past that. Maybe Jon thought it worth investigating?

Also, it is said that black dogs appear at places where the veil between the worlds is thin. I know this might just be wild speculation, but maybe Jon is looking for another place like that? Another Madra Dubh?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:49 am
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tassie
Boot

Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 65

 		Jee
jee, a dutch like me would never have found out this devildog..

... nice one!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:44 am
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Morgan
Kl00

Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 42
Location: Yongin, Korea

 		More on the Black Dog:
Bord and Bord (1985) theorised that black dogs might patrol ley lines and dis/appear at various ley points such as churchyards, prehistoric remains and ancient trackways

Also: a real longshot, but I found:
A spectral black dog frequented Peel Castle on the Isle of Man in the seventeenth century and was known as the Moddey Dhoo, or Mauthe Doog. Further research indicates that a particular passage was associated with the Mauthe Doog, which was then sealed after it.


What I'm really thinking, though, is that possible investigations of where the black dog has been seen may yield results. Possibly near their new location?
The webcam8 picture identifies them as moving near Shoreditch, and searching the records of the Old Bailey identifies a Black Dog at Shoreditch, some kind of public house/inn/pub though I think. But that's the closest I can get.

Also: The horoscope page mentions Marlowe. Christopher Marlowe, the playwright and creator of Dr. Faustus, a classic tale of selling your soul to the devil, had a famous black dog sighting of his own, stated as far as I have found 'A particular location between Wells and Stiffkey" However, I haven't found anything else, or any corroborating story for that.

I feel like I may be going out too far on this one, but there are really so few angles to go on, just the Madra Dubh and the phrenology idea.

However, I really need to sleep now, so I'm hoping someone else can take up where I'm leaving off. If not, I'll hit it again tomorrow.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:33 pm
Last edited by Morgan on Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Morgan
Kl00

Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 42
Location: Yongin, Korea

 		Sleep, bah!
Alright, I lied about the sleep. One more quick thing, /then/ I'm off to bed.

In Christopher Marlowe's Faustus, Faust encounters a black dog, and is heard to remark:

FAUST Dost mark how round us, with wide spiral curves,
He wheels, each circle closer than before?
And, if I err not, he appears to me
A line of fire upon his track to leave.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the spirals on the webcam8 picture?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:59 pm
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SuperJerms
Unfettered


Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 537
Location: indiana

 		Ok, I do like the black dog explanation best, considering that he sounds more irish than french saying the "more to do" thing.

Let's not write off the "death of God" thing completely, though. I was browsing through Wikipedia a couple of days ago, and came across this in the entry for Zoroaster:

Quote:
The German philospher Friedrich Nietzsche used the name of Zarathustra in Also sprach Zarathustra. Nietzsche fictionalizes and dramatizes Zarathustra toward his own literary and philosophical aims, presenting him as as a returning visionary who repudiates the seperation of good and evil and thus declares the death of God.


According to the Zoroastrianism entry on Wikipedia, some scholars believe that Zoroastrianism was the first religion to seperate out good and evil, make heaven/hell, and use a concept of the final judgement.

Obviously, Jon could find interest in this. As others have mentioned, Jon's accent is waaaaay off if he is saying the French phrase. All that would have to mean is that he doesn't speak French. Believe me, I have heard worse butchering of French words than that (people in the U.S. saying words like foyer and c'est).
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"If we could make your toaster print something we would." - Jordan Weisman

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:17 pm
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SuperJerms
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 537
Location: indiana

 		Ok, I do like the black dog explanation best, considering that he sounds more irish than french saying the "more to do" thing.

Let's not write off the "death of God" thing completely, though. I was browsing through Wikipedia a couple of days ago, and came across this in the entry for Zoroaster:

Quote:
The German philospher Friedrich Nietzsche used the name of Zarathustra in Also sprach Zarathustra. Nietzsche fictionalizes and dramatizes Zarathustra toward his own literary and philosophical aims, presenting him as as a returning visionary who repudiates the seperation of good and evil and thus declares the death of God.


According to the Zoroastrianism entry on Wikipedia, some scholars believe that Zoroastrianism was the first religion to seperate out good and evil, make heaven/hell, and use a concept of the final judgement.

Obviously, Jon could find interest in this. As others have mentioned, Jon's accent is waaaaay off if he is saying the French phrase. All that would have to mean is that he doesn't speak French. Believe me, I have heard worse butchering of French words than that (people in the U.S. saying words like foyer and c'est).
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"If we could make your toaster print something we would." - Jordan Weisman

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:17 pm
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TicTac
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 74
Location: Canada

 		Re: More on the Black Dog:
Morgan wrote:


Also: a real longshot, but I found:
A spectral black dog frequented Peel Castle on the Isle of Man in the seventeenth century and was known as the Moddey Dhoo, or Mauthe Doog. Further research indicates that a particular passage was associated with the Mauthe Doog, which was then sealed after it.


I don't think it is such a long shot. Go to http://www.isle-of-man.com/heritage/sites/peel-castle/moddey.shtml and listen to the sound file. I am positive that is what Jon is saying. The Moddey Dhoo---The Black Dog

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:32 pm
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timesuck
Greenhorn

Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 3
Noizzzey wrote:
Hey,
Just thinking out loud:
If I was right in my last post, then the place where Aleph and Star meet is in the east banks Acheron (thats the only thing I can think of...).
Since the river Acheron flows through the realm of Hades it has to be near or in the Elysian Fields (forgive me if that was mentioned somewhere else..). Where Hotel Europa is settled... So it could be that they meet in Europa...(Pathway) Could anything be in the guestbook?



Interesting thought... Also, Hotel Europa is named after the woman in Greek mythology who Zeus seduced by taking the form of a white bull. According to the myth, this bull was later reproduced by Zeus in the stars as the consellation Taurus. As noted elsewhere in the forum, the star forming the left eye of Taurus is know as Aleph. Could this be further support that the Hotel Europa guest book is important in this puzzle?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:57 pm
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Nadif
Unfettered


Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 318
Location: Brazil

 		Ok, now I think we can say that the "more the do" part is solved.
And yet, we're not an inch closer to anything, to tell the plain truth.
We have 22837146293874923478 theories about the aleph-star problem, which is quite like if we had nothing; and we haven't the sligthest idea of what to do\where to look\how to use an hipothetical answer.
Things are getting quite confused\random\annoying, to be honest. I really think we'll be provided with some new and crucial clue very soon, at least i hope so.

M.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:03 pm
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tinneke9
Veteran

Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Belgium

 		Europa guest book:

o qcadzshs fsr usffwbu : a complete red gerring

Daniel 5

All i have seen understood me

Tartarus : in Greek mythology the oppostie of the elysian fields

I had a wicked time (litterally)

The underworld overdelivered

asphodel: a flower very common on a grave yard

Amnesis Room

I think these are the relevant parts of the entries
i'm looking further in to them
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:30 pm
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tinneke9
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Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Belgium

 		Re: Legends and Folklore
Morgan wrote:
Many are said to portend a death, and many are said to haunt specific locations (esp. crossroads). Also, in many occasions of folklore, they are associated with lightning and killing people that way. I know we know that the black dog was at the crossroads (Devil Dog, as according to Hornchurch Star), but as far as I know, no one really looked past that. Maybe Jon thought it worth investigating?


Antonio regrets selling his soul- he died by being zapped by a bolt of lightning because of it.

Maybe there's a connection to get to know something about Antonio?
Long shot i know
_________________
The only thing more terrifying than searching for the Devil... is finding him.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:36 pm
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Nirkelev
Guest


 		Aleph meets the Star - Hebrew help
Hello everybody !

I'm from Israel and obviously speaks Hebrew.

There were some talking about Kabala and stuff so here you go with a few things that will might be helpfull with it.

Aleph is the first letter in Hebrew.
Aleph pronounced exeactly as an A
It is also the First letter in God's name - and sometims calld only by the Aleph.

The star is obviously Satan - the man in black.
According to the new testemony God and Satan meets on the Armagadon !
Armagadon also starts with an Aleph.
According to the new testemony God and Satan meets on mountain Meggido. A mountain in Hebrew is Ar - and with Meggido it is - Armeggadon.

Meybe this is it ? the armeggadon ?

and how exeactly should we contact him ?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:13 pm
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Misfitt
Boot


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 39
Location: Miami, FL

 		Re: Aleph meets the Star - Hebrew help
Nirkelev wrote:
Hello everybody !

I'm from Israel and obviously speaks Hebrew.

There were some talking about Kabala and stuff so here you go with a few things that will might be helpfull with it.

Aleph is the first letter in Hebrew.
Aleph pronounced exeactly as an A
It is also the First letter in God's name - and sometims calld only by the Aleph.

The star is obviously Satan - the man in black.
According to the new testemony God and Satan meets on the Armagadon !
Armagadon also starts with an Aleph.
According to the new testemony God and Satan meets on mountain Meggido. A mountain in Hebrew is Ar - and with Meggido it is - Armeggadon.

Meybe this is it ? the armeggadon ?

and how exeactly should we contact him ?


Very good information. I tried armeggadon, Meggido, and
armageddon, Megiddo (as dictionary.com spells them) at the mezzanine door and Jon's contract but had no luck.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:20 pm
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Morgan
Kl00

Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 42
Location: Yongin, Korea

 		Shuck=Madra Dubh
Interesting side note (apologies if it has been explored, but I am /not/ searching the Sable and Shuck forum for the word Shuck. I'm obsessed, not stupid.)

The Madra Dubh is also called the 'Shuck', or 'Black Shuck' at times.
Peel Castle, if it helps, seems to be located at 54°04'N 4°37'W or somewhere thereabouts-I need to head to work, so I'm leaving it in your hands.

Further on the Christopher Marlowe/Shuck story, since we've already got the Peel Castle one as far as I can take it (I wonder if the location identifiers are signicant?)

Stiffkey, NORFOLK
Encounter: The author Christopher Marlowe was lodging in a cottage beyond the marshes, along a lane about 800 yards from the A149.

I don't know much about roads in Norfolk, but are all or many roads numbered like that?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:21 pm
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tassie
Boot

Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 65

 		bible
i checked the bible, jesaja 14:12. read it yourself (not gonna translate), but here is a translation of the explanation:

the writer, jesaja, calls the mighty king of babel "the morningstar", because this is the brightest star. because of the moment of appearance of the star, he also calls hin the son of the early morning.

the hebrew word for morningstar is "lucifer", witch means the carrier of light. this caused the story that jesaja worte about the fall of the devil lucifer.

the whole story goes about the fall of babel, the greatest city ever been. but the general idea is the fall of humanity, the sinners.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:25 pm
Last edited by tassie on Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:28 am; edited 3 times in total
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