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Dorkmaster

Ok, well I'm going to avoid the canonical way of quoting and replying, because I do think that it does tend to make a post way too long, (although it's great to have context when tackling multiple subjects).

Two things, really:

1) Clayfoot, you suck. Just kidding... Laughing

I know what you're saying, but I just have to disagree with you (and I know, you have to disagree with me as well) but I think I'm being perfectly clear here when I say "Art is intrinsically intentionally created as such." The only time when that doesn't come into play, is when we have no access whatsoever to the creator, in which case, then we have no way to tell if the intention was art, so then we must decide for ourselves.

In terms of your whole "well what about nature?", I may be going farther than ANYONE wants to get here, but you brought it up, so I submit that there was a creator of that, who was quite intentional in the artistic nature of quite a few things growing and not on this planet of ours... I will leave it at that, but it is quite simple to say it is art, but functional as well.

2) Secondly, I think it's important to point out that skill is the measure of the value of a piece. Does that mean skill = talent? NO! I don't mean just by how "realistically" or "pretty" or "symmetrical"... I mean that the creator aptly created the item better than most could to create the desired effect. I know this is a very generic statement, but I mean for it to cover all aspects of art: audio, visual, physical, etc... So, in other words, if something like 4' 33" were to be judged on that scale, it is obviously art, as its result is exactly as intended. However, the "spit on a napkin" example (where do we get this?... vomiting, spitting, ugh!) is not skillful, and pretty universally agreed as not art because of that fact. It took no skill to create that unfocused, and unintentional "piece".

Again, while I do strongly believe everything I've written, I don't expect y'all to agree with me. I just think that either we have a definition for art, and it has to have some limitation, or like thebruce said (paraphrased): then there is no firm boundary of where art is and isn't present. Because one person could always perceive something as art, then it must be, well then EVERYTHING would be art. And then there's not really a need to define art, cuz it's literally everywhere... But I disagree with that notion. I think there has to be a committed action to create art. I think there needs to be intentionality. There needs to be a purpose, even if that purpose is to make someone look at something differently, as in Warhol, or Picasso for very much the same reason. Guernica is one of my favorites, since I was a child. I love it because there is so much going on in a variety of different views, and because it's ugly. But it's ugly for the purpose of being un-pretty, of being skewed... (totally my opinion on the quality of Guernica, so sorry...) Anyway....

One other point that people brought up re: Emily Dickenson(so there's three points... shoot me): There WAS INTENTIONALITY THERE!!! Art doesn't have to have the purpose of being public. But it was still created with an artistic intent. Poetry is intrinsically artistic. Thesis papers typically are not. So if Emily Dickenson wrote a technical manual on the virtue of hardwood floors, I would probably say that despite the public raving about the value or worth of the manual, that it was still not art. But since she wrote in poetic form, then YES it is art.

Ok, I'm done... Thanks!

EDIT: Oh and one more thing, that's totally off-topic, but a bit creepy... I have personally found (don't ask why/how) that most (not all, but a disconcerting majority) of Emily Dickenson's poems fit eerily well with the Gilligan's island theme music. Dunno

**Posted:** Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:58 pm

_________________
"The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet." -William Gibson
"Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it." - PJ O'Rourke
"ACADEMY, n. A modern school where football is taught." - Ambrose Bierce

hmrpita

**Posted:** Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:06 pm

_________________
As is your sort of mind,
So is your sort of search;
You will find what you desire.
--Robert Browning

krystyn

i like string

**Posted:** Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:07 pm

ThaJinx · Unfettered Joined: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 430

**Posted:** Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:55 pm

vector

**Posted:** Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:21 pm

_________________
The bookworm is just the larval form of the barfly

vpisteve

OK, so as a public service, I hereby define art (thanks, Addie):

ART

Thank you, and goodnight.

**Posted:** Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:14 am

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Making the world a better place, one less mime at a time.

krystyn

GROSS

evade evade evade!!!!!!!!!

**Posted:** Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:18 am

water10

Man, I've gotta send this link to my wife! Being a cat person, I'm sure she'll like it!

But, on the other hand, it might put a stop on this rather long and endless discussion ...