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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
What constitutes an ARG?
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
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Elijah Snow
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Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 133
Location: Cin Sity
Varin wrote:
That would be interesting. Imagine if after we help Dale in CTW, we move on to some other schmuck who fell for the "I'll grant you one wish" scenario in some other Smalltown, USA. CTW2 anyone? I guess that depends on the CTW endgame. Wink


I think Iris has the potential to be a "recurring character" that leads us to different stories in the ARG universe. They may not be "Wish" stories, but definitely supernatural in nature.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:34 pm
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Simulacra
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Joined: 17 May 2003
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 		Interesting
This is really an interesting discussion. I would like to join in properly (but I do not currently have the time). Anyway, I do think you should have a look at the "Quick info" at the top of http://www.interactingarts.org/forum/
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:38 pm
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jayepmills
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Joined: 12 May 2003
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Quote:
What if instead the theater came to you, and the stage was organic? Imagine a "character" shows up on your doorstep with a frantic look in her eye. She hands you a package and says, "Whatever you do, don't let them get this!".


Humm, like Theater of Life, from The Man who Knew too Little ! Yes, I AM JAMES BOND !
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:53 pm
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dmax
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1387
Location: Location: Location!

 		I love genesis, and got to watch the birth of the internet. I kick myself for not investing in AOL and Yahoo as I watched them take off. Fortunately, I got in on the ground floor for Webvan... Confused

"We" are also in on the ground floor for ARGs. It's not a phenomenon that's been around for decades (like 12 bar blues) and we're playing within well defined boundaries, adding our own little personal touches.

At least, that's my hope. I'm hoping that the game genre is still undifferentiated enough so that it can encompass more, and not have constraints that limit its creativity.

The nature of TV is that it necessarily shoots for the lowest common denominator, so that it can attract as many people to the commercials as possible. Very little groundbreaking is done, intentionally, since the same old things attract the same old people with the same old money. ARGs will never, I would hope, find themselves in that spot. An undistinguished and rote ARG wouldn't be the sort of thing that would attract a large following, I would expect. "Come do this! You've done it before and it's easy!" (This is, though, the implied message of sitcoms.)

I see some of it already, though. "Oh, that's a Vignere cipher. Oh, that's modulo 25. Oh, that's...." And it's a walkthrough.

So is the genre fixed and are the boundaries set? That would be disappointing, and ultimately - for folks like us - boring.
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That sounds like something HITLER would say!

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:52 pm
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Valas
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Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 326
Elijah Snow wrote:


I think this is one of the biggest barriers to gaining new entrants in an on-going game. I think this phenomenon plays out in player participation over time. For example, think back to the beginning of CTW. How many people were initially signed up to play? 100, 500, 1000? If you think of CTW as "a product" we would expect to see an actual increase in the number of players over time. Now jump to today. How many people on unforum actually participate in the CTW experience 10, 15, 20? It would appear that there is an actual decline in the number of "true" participants as time goes on. Now I know that there other forums and players who choose to go solo, but I think overall the trend still holds. In fact I'd guess that 80 to 90% of "participants" are sitting passively on the sidelines watching a small number of "ARG celebrities" play out the game. How many times have you heard, "I lurked on The Beast" or "Long time watcher, first time player"? I would challenge current and future game designer to figure out ways to get more people "off the sidelines" and into the game. There are currently barriers there that are preventing this from happening today. The sooner we can break these barriers down, the sooner more people can get the most out of ARG's today.



Actually, I think that the main reason for the low numbers of posters of CTW on the boards, when compared to the number of people who are registered, has to do with lurking.

These folks do read what the small group has found, and they will utilize said information, but they don't want to share, for whatever reason, what they're getting with anyone else.

It's essentially the old community vs unadulterated individualism discussion. Most folks don't want to play nice, because they deem their own fun more important than that of anyone else. Crying or Very sad

Side observation btw, It's quite possible and often even very useful to rp in an ARG, if only to maximize the information outpour from the characters, who might not say anything to person A, but they will talk to person B, even though person A and B are one and the same.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:14 pm
Last edited by Valas on Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Elijah Snow
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Joined: 17 Jan 2003
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Location: Cin Sity
Quote:
However, there's also the issue of people's lost enjoyment. I was one of the most vocal before CTW launched and very active in the beginning. Life got busy and I couldn't check in with it every day. Once my life was freed up, I felt as though I was too far behind. I'd read the guide and get caught up just in time for life to get busy again. The sequence has happened a number of times. Now, Veen is flooded with real life stuff and unable to remain as active and the guide is 2 months behind (no fault of her own and I don't hold her responsible at all). None of the currently active players have felt the need or desire to create a Story So Far thread and the game doesn't have a built in one. It's become impossible for those of us who were lost 3 months ago to become active again.


I think Imbri touches on a very important point. Many times the PM's depend upon the players to keep Guides and Who's Who documents. One might argue that these are critical pieces of the overall execution that allow people to jump on at any time (or at least more easily). PM's don't put the story or plot in the hands of the participants, so why these vital documents?

In the comic book industry, the same thing was occuring. Long story arcs would keep new readers away, because they had no idea what was going on. Several books starting putting a "story so far" section on the inside cover to compensate. I don't know how well it worked, but it seemed a step in the right direction. Also, most comic stories are somewhat serialized with perhaps a longer secondary thread running through them. Again I think the current ARG offerings are way too long, or need to have a controlled mechanism that allows people to jump on board with little or no effort.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:51 pm
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greywolf
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Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 217
Location: Florida

 		Imbri made a very good point there. I would love to interact more on CTW. I don't have the time that I thought that I would. For me work usually slows down around the end of March when all the snowbirds go home. This year, if they did leave, they didn't go until the end of April and most stayed. It would be nice to interact more in this game but it seems that there are too many already posting " me first" (I don't mean that as a slam) and why repeat the same thing(email, IM or whatever) again and again. I've been lurking and interacting since before CTW started but have never really felt the need that I have to be known by everyone.

If I feel that I have something to contribute to the game then I will, if not then I'm going to continue to lurk and wish that I had more time to Chase. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:43 pm
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be
Quote:
Now, Veen is flooded with real life stuff and unable to remain as active and the guide is 2 months behind (no fault of her own and I don't hold her responsible at all). None of the currently active players have felt the need or desire to create a Story So Far thread and the game doesn't have a built in one. It's become impossible for those of us who were lost 3 months ago to become active again.


I've posted this somewhere here, but I think it got buried pretty quick. I have an ugly, yet functional Story So Far list on my website. Its sorted by date because I do a daily update over at CD and pretty much just put the info on my site in case CD explodes or something. I would hate to lose five months of work. Wink Feel free to take a look at it, just remember its not pretty like Aveena's Wink I usually have it updated every day, but occasionally I'll have a busy week (extensive job searching for my husband in a crap economy and my one year old sure keep a girl busy).

Anyway, here's the link...
http://varin.org/portal/html/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=3

I'll post this in the CTW forums to in its own topic.

**Edit** I posted this in the CTW Quick Reference Forum
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:44 pm
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kimer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2003
Posts: 400
Location: South of Oz

 		Imbri wrote:
Quote:
I want to be me and play as me. I want the reality to be mine, not a made up character's. I tried interacting a couple times as me and that got me nowhere. Oh well. Again, a number of people are loving it. That's great. It's just not the game for me.

So, while I think that there are a number of lurkers, I think that after 5 months (!) of gameplay some people have left. Perhaps their lives got busy.


O.k. as a "newbie" I feel the "need" to contribute.... when I found ARG I was "extremely excited"... the first 48hrs of CTW was consuming but awesome.... I've loved meeting you all... have learned tons.... but as "life" continued I "continually" felt like a hex.... if I was around "with time" nothing was happening.... if "life was busy" all sorts of stuff happened.... I too tried to interact via email BUT apparently the characters I chose where the ones that responded with "cannned email to everyone"... well, so what's the point?!?!? if 1,000 others got the same email... although "certain" people seemed to have developed relationships with "certian characters".... well, certainly no one could be "original" with all.... on the other hand, for folks that "reach out" finding a way to make folks "feel special" and "contribute" instead of a "small group" would seem to me to be the long term goal.... as for puzzles they are "important".... I've much enjoyed learning from you all... geez the amount of links that have been added to my "favorites" list is amazing... again I enjoyed much more the beginning when there was alot of probelm sovling in chat and help for us "newbies"... so I've become much more of a lurker than I would have anticipated.... does this mean it's too long? I would say NO! Does this mean the rhythm has been off a bit? Well, yes I'd have to agree. Does this mean that ARG has to include elements that attract all players... puzzles... complicated and not.... story line... reseach... lurkers... ABSOLUTELY!!! These are all the things I found enjoyable.... so I guess the bottom-line is how to NOT turn enthusiastic folks like me into lurkers?!?!? Well, I guess that's one for you "old timers".... gee I love hiding behind the "newbie" label Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:10 am
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Elijah Snow
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Joined: 17 Jan 2003
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 		So we've discussed the relevance of puzzles...

And raised questions around time...

We've delved into the internet's role in ARGs...

Here's one for ya...Is it vital that ARGs be played in large open forums, or can they still maintain their identity by being played solo or in small isolated groups? What are the pros and cons of each.

Discuss. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 8:08 am
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snowhite
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Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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 		never mind

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 8:30 am
Last edited by snowhite on Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be
Quote:
Here's one for ya...Is it vital that ARGs be played in large open forums, or can they still maintain their identity by being played solo or in small isolated groups? What are the pros and cons of each.

Discuss.


I don't think its necessary for every ARG to be played with large groups, it just seems that some ARGs wouldn't survive without them. CTW, for example...Every single day something happens (trust me I think there was one day in my daily update that I had nothing to write), but not for everyone. Honestly, I get an email from one of the characters maybe once a week. So if I didn't have this group and CD I would be totally lost.

Actually after writing the above, I think maybe it depends some on the type of player too. I'm not the type to email every contact and create multiple personalities to interact with each character, nor do I have the time to. I pick and choose the characters I'd like to interact with and as a result I know I miss out on alot of stuff. I'm sure others interact with many of the characters and could play the game without the rest of us just fine.

Another factor would be how many people are actually behind the scenes of the ARG. If there are 10 or so people, they can't possibly individually email thousands of people unless they don't have day jobs. Smile They can just email maybe 100 and know that the word will be spread to everyone.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:47 am
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Guest
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Varin wrote:
I don't think its necessary for every ARG to be played with large groups, it just seems that some ARGs wouldn't survive without them. CTW, for example.


Agreed. ARGs that rely heavily on email type interaction to further the plot need a "central" watering hole or two for the masses to quench their thirst. If CTW were being played/discussed in only several "smaller" forums, dissemination of information would be difficult and maintaining consistency would equally so (IMO).

But then the "flip side" is that an ARG that has less email interaction, a story you know the gist of upfront but have to progress through the puzzles to further, and leans more to the "puzzular" side of ARGs could be played with limited or no forum interaction. I think...lol

I'm sort of new to offering an opinion on ARGs, so everything I say could be utter BS...lol...but it's the way I see it at the moment anyway.

~cem

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:09 pm
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Varin
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be
imbri wrote:
btw: sorry to hear about your husband's job search. i'll keep my fingers crossed and send good vibes his (and your) way.


Well, luckily he still has a job. Its just one of those situations where nobody's job in the company is stable. And we're trying to move back to the Windy City. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:11 pm
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Caterpillar
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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 		True...lol

I said I was new at offering my opinion on this. Wink

I guess I meant to say "with little or no large forum" interaction. In other words I don't see how anyone could know the storyline of CTW without referencing Unf. or CD. Wheras something w/o the mass amount of email containing relevant story info, could be played quite effectively in a smaller group setting. But I could be wrong....as I don't have the neccessary exp. to draw on, I am only speculating that it's possible for 5-6 people to play an ARG whose storyline wasn't as dependent on multiple characters emailing multiple people with a lot of plot relevant info.

Again... I apologize if this isn't the consensus or it sounds unrealistic.

~cem

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:03 pm
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