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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Chasing the Wish » CTW: General/Updates
What's happening? Where do we stand?
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SpaceBass
The BADministrator


Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 2701
Location: pellucidar

 		For the amount of work you put into that, Magesteff, I'd even forgive you if you spelled my own nick wrong. Smile Thanks muchly!

Sjct, just as you may not see the value in encouraging new players to jump in at any point in a game, others may not value discouraging their participation. How about we both let others' decide for themselves whether they want to go for it and maybe even just how much 'immersion' is appropriate for them?

And Sunny, darlin', woo I'd be glad to let you have it. Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:10 pm
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sjct
Boot

Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 57
Location: Not in GA Anymore

 		cemagate, don't you think we're supposed to be confused at this point? Isn't the puppetmaster in charge and spinning our brains most excellantly? Why do you think you should have it all figured out now? I've darn near stopping specing because it's impossible!

imri, please jump in and solve the greywethers login, O please, do it and I'll kiss your feet!

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:10 pm
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Sunny du Pree
Unfettered


Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 636
Location: Push, Nevada
SpaceBass wrote:
For the amount of work you put into that, Magesteff, I'd even forgive you if you spelled my own nick wrong. Smile Thanks muchly!


And Sunny, darlin', woo I'd be glad to let you have it. Razz


Yes Mage good job!!! and Space arent you YUMMY!!!!!
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Sunny Du Pree
I dreamed a dream and now that dream has come for me

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:16 pm
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sjct
Boot

Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 57
Location: Not in GA Anymore

 		Thankyou, Sunny, for understanding what I said. To all others please refer to my actual statements and not to the intrepretations applied by others. I don't see anything in what I said that prohibits anyone from jumping into the end game. All I've said is, A) I'm not going to try to bring you up to speed; and B) Anyone who does could be wrong. That should not be interpreted as prohibiting others. Go for it! I'm not stopping ya. From the beginning of this game, I've been a total chaos agent and pure libertarian. Can others say the same?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:25 pm
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Caterpillar
Unfictologist


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 1887
Location: cem's otherbody
sjct wrote:
cemagate, don't you think we're supposed to be confused at this point? Isn't the puppetmaster in charge and spinning our brains most excellantly? Why do you think you should have it all figured out now? I've darn near stopping specing because it's impossible!


Just as you suggest others refer to your actual statements, I don't recall anything about saying I believe we should have everything figured out. I made a statement that I was confused about the plotline because I don't always have the time to read every word of every email lately, and sometimes what I conclude is no where near what has actually occured. I simply stated that imbri's request was not unreasonable, if someone felt the inclination to do so, and would be welcomed by more than just those who haven't played much.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:35 pm
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dmax
Unfictologist

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1387
Location: Location: Location!
sjct wrote:
SpaceBass wrote:
Personal attacks are unwarranted. Razz


In what way did I make a personal attack? I fail to see that in anything I said. If someone has not played the game, that was their choice. To want to jump in now is impossible. Is that an insult? I don't think so. Imbrii made a choice. And everyone is entitled to decide how they spend their time. I have devoted mine to CTW, imri hasn't. No value judgement here. Just, sorry, you missed it. It's been great. I have enjoyed it because I paid attention. Others have been left behind because they didn't. That is not a fault in the game or my fault for pointing it out.
I took your first letter the same way SpaceBass did. Maybe the words were correct, but it was how they were strung together that made the impact.
sjct wrote:
Well, you know, magesteff, I really credit you for coming in late to the game and catching up but you still don't know how to spell "synthasia" correctly...But encouraging someone to be "intrigued" at this point is riduculous! And just a bit insulting to all of us who have played along so far. It's like someone asking for crib notes before a final exam.
Finally it makes sense to me, when i read that last bit. It looks like you're feeling insulted. And it certainly looks in these posts like you're taking shots at Magesteff and others. And it's happening enough that it looks intentional.
BTW: If spelling a post right is an indicator of anything, you should know that you did get "synthasia" right, but "riduculous" looks to be a bit....creative. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:22 pm
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia
sjct wrote:
Just listing the cast of characters and their relationships would take a couple of paragraphs. If I attempted to list all the puzzles that would take another page or two. And the web pages – the endless stream of clever, artful web pages -- it just can't be done. And any attempt to do so would be lacking the awe-struck moments when the bizarre plot twisted beyond what anyone imagined in their best, wildest specs.


The Beast was a pretty intense experience, with a large cast of characters (complete with Intertwining Relationships©) and a few puzzles here and there (nothing too fancy). Over time, the Cloudmakers did a pretty bang-up job of keeping people involved and informed, whether they were 'lowly newbies who came in 5/6 the way through' or 'seasoned veterans with their fingers on the pulse of ARG everywhere'. Why did this happen? Because there were some awfully nice people out there who made it happen.

Admittedly, I had to jump off the CTW bandwagon fairly early on (becoming a new father is such a pain in the ass) which also meant asking for help in my failed attempt at a CTW trail. There were many people besides myself that were willing to go the extra mile to make sure everything got documented and discussed, whether it was a new puzzle, a solve, or a speculation. From the thousands of posts in different forums to the heated discussions in chat rooms, CTW has been covered from bow to stern.

sjct wrote:
CTW has required a commitment, a total immersion from its players and a lot us have given it hours of our lives every day since before it began. Like a lot of things in life, you get out what you put in.


Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. Which is why, if a person with my time commitments wants to come in and read four paragraphs that may or may not get me interested in the game, without having put any effort into it, then I should not be getting a seventeen page synopsis of the relationship between Dale Sprague and the creepy 'Janitor with the big mop'. If all I am ready to do, at this moment, is jump back in and get reacquainted with the game, there's no reason why that's not a 'real' possibility. That being said, thanks to Magesteff for her wonderful, brief overview, as well as Varin's page. Nice work.

I feel that you are wrong to make assumptions about what CTW has required. However, you're entitled to your own opinion as to how much devotion one must have for their ARG. I am agreeing with imbri when she says:

imbri wrote:
However, many people pop in chat, three in the last week, asking for a little quickstart. A jumping off point. They, like myself, are willing to go and read through 5 months of posts in a very short time to get up to speed. However, a brief update of where things currently are would be most helpful.


I've been in chat. I've seen the requests. My hands are tied -- there's no way someone like me could give these people the information that they request? Does that make me a bad person? Hell no. Now, if the resource was there (and it is now, love ya Magesteff and Varin) I could simply say GO HERE but before yesterday, I couldn't. Now, here's imbri, asking for a simple request, and you tell her to 'get real'. Not very nice.

sjct wrote:
To want to jump in now is impossible... you missed it. It's been great. I have enjoyed it because I paid attention. Others have been left behind because they didn't. That is not a fault in the game or my fault for pointing it out.


Show me where it says the game is over. I know of many people who joined the Jawbreakers Yahoo group late into the game who still got a lot of enjoyment out of it. Again, it's your opinion that jumping in at this stage is impossible. Thanks for pointing it out.

sjct wrote:
Any summary, at this point, would be based on pure spec. Perhaps, some newcomer will venture to give you the full scoop and they will be wrong. I'm being honest with you and completely respectful. You have missed the experience, the obsession and complete immersion that have been attained by others. You will not catch up with Sunny's relationships with characters. You will not figure out a spec that beats Valas' wild rides. You are free to watch what the rest of us do but you have missed the boat.


I believe that imbri was asking about the gist of the story, and not a summary. Surely Magesteff and Varin are not basing what they are writing on pure speculation -- there has to be some sort of fact to back it up. And even so, why not have three, four, or seventeen people write up two paragraph speculations, post them, and let others decide for themselves what the story is about? No harm in that... no reason to tell people that they have 'missed the experience, the obsession and complete immersion'. Again -- some of us out here aren't looking to be baptized in the CTW waters, only to see what is going on inside the virtual walls of Klepsydra (spelled it right, yes!) To tell imbri (and, ultimately, other people) that she is 'free to watch' is a slap in the face. Again, your opinion -- entitled to it, yes, but also entitled to rebuttals.

See, this is why I'm a little hot under the proverbial collar... it seems like you are saying (and I may be waaaay off base on this one but it is my interpretation) that a newbie would be out of his/her mind to start getting into CTW right now. This is an issue that has already been brought up in this thread of discussion, so no sense going into it even more. However, if that was the case -- if joining a story-driven ARG late in the development was a worthless endeavor -- then I certainly would not be here from 2 years ago. I joined The Beast late. I missed out on Mike Royal, Mowz, virtually everything... and yet, here I am today, enjoying my time in the community. Just goes to show... you only get out of it what you put in.

Now, don't go taking this the wrong way. You say yourself how ridiculous getting into CTW now would be over and over again.

sjct wrote:
But encouraging someone to be "intrigued" at this point is riduculous! And just a bit insulting to all of us who have played along so far. It's like someone asking for crib notes before a final exam.


sjct wrote:
I'm just saying it's a little too late to catch up on the story. Missing a couple of weeks like you did is not the same as jumping in at the end.


I agree with anyone else that feels that your posts are malicious and not intended to be helpful in any way, shape or form. Your opinions about the CTW experience are well noted and people have responded in spades. If anything, you provided an interesting conversation on a Wednesday night.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:12 am
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Varin
I Have No Life


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 2456
Location: South of where I used to be
Quote:
I know of many people who joined the Jawbreakers Yahoo group late into the game who still got a lot of enjoyment out of it.


Hehe, I just joined a couple of months ago. I just discovered ARGs during Push and felt like I was missing out when everyone was talking about ARGs of days past. So I caught up after endgame. I think you can jump in and catch up at any time you'd like. It makes no difference to me. I'm not the one that would have to read 5 months worth of CTW posts Wink More power to ya! Very Happy


Quote:

Surely Magesteff and Varin are not basing what they are writing on pure speculation -- there has to be some sort of fact to back it up.


My daily update is almost completely comprised of emails, chat logs, and facts. I only included spec ocassionally for interests sake and I labeled it as spec only. If a spec was later found out to be true, I included it as fact on the day we found out it was fact.

And sorry sjct, I love ya and all the help you've given in this game, but your posts did sound a little malicious, which surprised me coming from dear sweet sjct. I don't know if they were intended that way or maybe we're all just reading them wrong due to a lack of smilies. Question

Also, I'll back up Sunny's offer to help anyone who wants to catch up. I don't have as much experience in the character interaction, but I can try to help.
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"I still miss him to this day and probably always will." - Todd Keeler, Chasing the Wish

"meta meta meta, I made you out of play..." ~ j5

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 2:36 am
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial
sjct wrote:
Well, you know, magesteff, I really credit you for coming in late to the game and catching up but you still don't know how to spell "synthasia" correctly. Good luck to you and I hope your spec is right on. But encouraging someone to be "intrigued" at this point is riduculous! And just a bit insulting to all of us who have played along so far. It's like someone asking for crib notes before a final exam.


Sally, what does spelling Synthasia correctly have to do with my enjoyment of the game? Or your enjoyment for that matter?
I did not ask for crib notes, Imbri did not ask for crib note, what was requested is, in my opinion, more along the lines of "what chapter are we in and how the heck did we get there?"

And honestly, the way you phrased your response, if I was someone who was a bit shy and not certain I wanted to get involved with this or not... I'd be gone, and who knows, I could have been the one person in a thousand that could solve the GW LOGIN puzzle, but not now, because now I'm off to do something more rewarding, like watching idiot shows on television, ones that don't require me to think, respond to others or react.
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A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:24 pm
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vpisteve
Asshatministrator


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

 		Being Newbie Friendly
Well, I'd like to jump in on this thread, since I feel kinda strongly about this, but I'm wondering if I'm too late to actually contribute something, and I have missed the chance since I was away on vacation? Razz

Anyway, as far a jumping into a game near the end, I'd say two things. First, the PMs of any game usually don't want to shut anyone out of the game, at any point, thereby limiting their audience. Second, you'd be surprised at how much newbies can contribute, and how quickly they can get up to speed.

This can be accompished in a couple of ways. In the Beast, the PM's maintained a "story so far" page to help, and the Cloudmaker moderators did a bang up job of documenting everything so completely in the form of the Guide and the Trail. They were very insightful in welcoming and helping people out who came along late in the game, and created some posting guidelines to actually help that process and provide a minimum of frustration for newbies and veterans alike.

I missed the first month of The Beast, but got up to speed almost completely thanks to their efforts. Sure, I missed the fun of a couple things early on, but I sure enjoyed everything. The folks at Cloudmakers were very kind and tolerant, not to mention mindful of helping, which is one reason I think the group grew to over 7000 people.

As far as newbies contributing to The Beast, I actually was the first to solve one late puzzle, and even got to solve the very last puzzle found after endgame. I even attended a CM post-game party and got to meet other players, who were all very nice to me even though I wasn't there from the very beginning. A very tolerant and friendly bunch. Very Happy

Folks plugging in late in the game can very often offer great insight on things from a fresh perspective. In Lockjaw, we had a couple all-stars join toward the end who provided invaluable input and helped us solve a couple of things we were really stuck on. One of these players ended up being one of the top cryptographers in the world. Boy were we glad he came along!

So, I guess I just am wondering where all this hubris comes from. Criticizing a moderator/admin for attempting to help a newbie just seems rather odd to me. That's the moderator's job, after all: to help facilitate players and make sure they're getting the most out of the experience. I know in Imbri's case that she's extremely sensitive to new players, and tries to help them whenever she can. She's always really welcoming and does a great job at making someone feel included.

Good mods answer questions, point newbies in the right direction, organize threads, deal with problems behind the scenes, maintain reference material, and basically organize and administrate. If they're doing their job well, their work will be almost transparent.

I think I can speak for SpaceBass when I say that we have an open-arms policy around here. We work very hard to make it as easy as possible for a newbie to dive right in and become a part of things.

If someone doesn't want to take the time to help a newcomer out, that's fine. But being critical of someone for doing so is just bad form, imho. I applaud the efforts of the CTW players who have taken the time to document things to keep folks up to speed. It's a serious investment of time, believe me!

So just remember. The new guy in chat just might hold the keys to the toughest puzzle. One just never knows, does one? Wink

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 10:00 pm
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MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?


Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 2716
Location: State of Denial

 		Re: Being Newbie Friendly
vpisteve wrote:
Well, I'd like to jump in on this thread, since I feel kinda strongly about this, but I'm wondering if I'm too late to actually contribute something, and I have missed the chance since I was away on vacation? Razz ....Wink


Steve, I'll take you jumping in any old time Wink

And how could there be any missed chances when we still haven't figured out the GW wpfe LOGIN! Laughing
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A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead


PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2003 10:11 pm
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