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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Perplex City » PXC: General/Updates
[UPDATE] Scarlett Kite 8 April
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Muffin
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Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 306
Location: UK, Leicester

dead weight wrote:
menace1 wrote:
Sorry to bang on...if these people were serious about getting the cube back that they'd be a little more direct.


Bang away - I agree completely. But I don't see that we have any other options at this point other than watch her and the paper though.


Consider that thirded! We have communication - tell us about the cube!

However...

I suppose we must consider that they may not trust us. Therefore their plan must be to teaching us slowly about their culture, building up our familiarity so we will want to find it for them.

So, after starting to write a whole hearted agreement - I think I'll stay on the fence!

Edit: Grammar!

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:54 am
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erekose
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Quote:
3. The realities are similar enough that they share a language (very unlikely)


On the contrary, I believe that this is the most likely probability. The presence of latin in the academy motto indicates that there was a roman empire in existance, and the use of middle english in the 'history of the academy' text,well known personas from our world exist (Newton and Avorgadro) as well as similar cultural and social values and development. All this indicates that until relatively recently (perhaps as little as 1200 years ago) our world and theirs were one historically.
Tentativley, and with almost no evidence to back me up, I suggest that the divergence date be placed during the final break-up of the roman empire, but after the Saxon invasions of England. This allows for the placing of the seeds of the english language ( latin and germanic, with a smattering of celtic and greek) while allowing for maximum possible time to allow for the changes in history, technology, and culture apparent in the history text to appear. Of course, this is spec and they could be altering everything, including historical references and language. but I think there are just too many similarities between our world and theirs to accout for this.
In the 'emperors new mind' Roger Penrose calculates the number of possible universes based on our laws of physics alone to be 10^100^121 (sorry about the akward notation but I cant double superscript). thats one with 100 zeros behind it times itself 121 times. I think theres room for a lot of universes that speak english and have a culture not too dissimilar to ours. (And alot more that bear absolutely no resemblance to ours at all) .
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You have dreamed too well, O wise archdreamer, for you have drawn dream's gods away from the world of all men's vision to that which is wholly yours-H.P Lovecraft


PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:22 pm
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Centipede
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Joined: 17 Sep 2004
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I read an alternate history novel where the Black Plague wiped out 90% of the European population, what if it did a lot less damage in their world? That would account for the similarity in language and their more advanced technology.

Just random thoughts, but that's all we have to do right now.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:26 pm
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StarryNight
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menace1 wrote:
Sorry to bang on...if these people were serious about getting the cube back that they'd be a little more direct.


I think that we are not only going to have to find the cube, but we are also going to have to figure out who stole it, why, and how. My spec is that Sente either knows or suspects who did it, but can't do anything without proof (perhaps for political reasons).

There are probably going to be several suspects and many dead ends that we'll go down before we figure it out, and that's why we need the cultural background before we really get started.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:39 pm
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filmguy1013
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Media

I love how she says her site is for "keeping track of what the media over there [Perplex City] is saying about it..." But all we get are articles about what the media on Eaerth is saying about it.

Any possible relevence to the links within the articles being sent to us? i.e. the Yellow Arrows or are they totally unrelated? (Perhaps we can use the texting through yellow arrows as a means of communication.... am i just way off here???)

'nough ramblin for now..

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:42 pm
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erekose
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There were probably distinct differences in tech long before the plauge became a major problem. The electromagnetism experiments were being conducted around 1300AD our time and that's well before the black plague became a problem. It's an interesting point though, when did they break off from us? I'm focusing my theories earlier though. Maybe Atilla completed his conquest of Rome and reinvigorated the western empire, Maybe the historical Arthur was more effective at his fights against the Saxons, and managed to achieve a lasting peace, Maybe King Harold won the Battle of Hastings. Until we get some definitive proof (I've sent a few questions to Scarlett on these topics.) there are any number of possibilities for the breakage point. It is, however, fun to speculate what exactly caused their world to become so different, and yet so similar, to ours.

Maybe we should start a new thread on this topic, I dont think the history one
quite covers the spec on alternate timelines.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:48 pm
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Scott
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and fFrom a pragmatic point of view, it wouldnt be very interesting fFor sente to email us and say "The cube is at 123 main street. could you be ever so kind as to go get it fFor me?" well that was a mighty short arg!

anyway. their world doesnt work like that. read the sentinal and think "Games and puzzles are the most important thing in these people's world. they wont tell anything without it being creatively interpretted." Which is what makes the paintings so tantalizing. a photograph only captures what is in fFront of the lens. a painting captures a fFluttering image of what takes place in the space between subject and object.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:50 pm
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dead weight
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erekose wrote:
I think theres room for a lot of universes that speak english and have a culture not too dissimilar to ours. (And alot more that bear absolutely no resemblance to ours at all) .


I agree on this point. However the odds of us happening to encounter another race looking (supposedly) almost exactly like us, who also share our history, who also speak English (both formally and with the same slang, which doesn't even happen here), and just happens to be the one the cube came from, would be huge, as an understatement IMO.

Of course it's possible, but not very probable at all. (Yes, quote Holmes if you must, but still...)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:52 pm
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erekose
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Quote:
Of course it's possible, but not very probable at all. (Yes, quote Holmes if you must, but still...)


I agree in principle, the odds of randomly finding a world with such similar values and culture is astronomical (as is finding humans, as is finding a universe that is even habitatble by known forms of life.). But these people may have deliberately seeked out a univese sutible for communication. (one might imagine Sente thinking "I wonder if THIS had happened differently", booting up his quantum wormhole projecter, and finding a world that was remarkably different, but still similar enough to comprehend without difficulty.)As for the slang and language structure being the same, we must remember that these people have been exposed to us for some time. Earth is in vogue over there, and to see a young person from their world using a somewhat exaggerated use of contemporary earth slang
while communicating with people from our world is hardly unusual.

their world seems to have only a few differences to ours, from a many-worlds theory point of view, that makes them 'closer' and perhaps easier to get to. And if you had stolen the cube, you wouldn't want to escape to a universe populated by 40 foot tall beings straight out of a Lovecraft novel.
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You have dreamed too well, O wise archdreamer, for you have drawn dream's gods away from the world of all men's vision to that which is wholly yours-H.P Lovecraft


PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:14 pm
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Scott
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Let's refer back to the preamble, shall we?

Quote:
There is a theme that has risen again and again in our studies across all relevant disciplines. The similarities between our peoples are truly profound, And consequentially serve to make the differences all the more shocking. It is as though our modern day societies took our collective cultural experiences -- All of our shared histories -- and learned from it completely different lessons. One could expect then A feeling of alienation upon the subjects of our studying. This is not so. Our researches have instead come to identify very strongly with their counterparts on the other side of the curve. The rhythm we seem to occupy seems to be a long period of comfortable familiarity, with a counterpoint of sudden and often shock. Culture shock.


Ok, so we have a lot of similarities. We have some differences too. But mostly we have a great deal of similarities. I would very much expect the similarities to include language. The perplexians are apparently fFairly bedazzled by our culture, so it seems reasonable to expect them to emulate some of our slang, just as we have started to emulate theirs (how many people have adopted Madame Bianca's fFutures in their sig?)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:45 pm
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neophoenix
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Re: Media

filmguy1013 wrote:
I love how she says her site is for "keeping track of what the media over there [Perplex City] is saying about it..." But all we get are articles about what the media on Eaerth is saying about it.


Actually I don't think she was referring to the media in Perplex City.

Scarlett Kiteway wrote:
this is my blog all about the excitement over the search for the Cube. I'll be keeping track of what the media over there is saying about it


I guess that when she says "over there", she is referring to Earth, IMHO.

Moreover, I think that instead of "excitement" the Perplexian media has shown signals of "dissatisfaction" due to the apparent "lack" of positive results in the search for the Cube (remember the articles about Sente Kiteway published a few weeks ago in the PPC Sentinel).
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:50 pm
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neophoenix
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Scott wrote:

(how many people have adopted Madame Bianca's fFutures in their sig?)


You can count me in. Go Madame Bianca!!! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:59 pm
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Kensuke
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Wow, my first post (after the one in introducitons ^^)

As it seems to my by this topic, the whole language thing still hasn't been covered. Sorry if it has, and what I'm going to speak here was already discussed.

When all those newspapers ads were revealed on the perplex city site's movie, there was one in french, right? So, not only they know english, but french, too. It's coherent with the shared history theory, although it doesn't confirm it or exclude any other theory.

If they, on other side, "learned" our languages, I think it's safe to assume the first one they would learn is english, as it is now the most international language of Earth. So why french? Nowadays, chinese would probably be a more important language worldwide than french. Well, french was the international language before english, so it may be related.

Again, sorry if it was already discussed (although I didn't find anything using the Search feature)

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:24 pm
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jbd
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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Kensuke wrote:
When all those newspapers ads were revealed on the perplex city site's movie, there was one in french, right? So, not only they know english, but french, too. It's coherent with the shared history theory, although it doesn't confirm it or exclude any other theory.

If they, on other side, "learned" our languages, I think it's safe to assume the first one they would learn is english, as it is now the most international language of Earth. So why french?


Welcome to the game! Very Happy

Three points:
a.) The ads were most likely set up by Mission Control, that is, Sente's Earth counterparts. They probably did the French translation themselves.

b.) Even if they did not, the French is a bit awkward (there's nothing strictly speaking wrong once you realize it's a sentence fragment, but a phrase is translated literally which doesn't have a good match in French) so the use of machine translation is a possibility.

c.) They're smart cookies in Perplex City and probably have already grasped a whole bevy of languages if they're really trying to learn them.

Asking what language(s) are spoken in Perplex City (and if they have the same names as ours) would make a good question for Miss Kiteway.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:43 pm
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dead weight
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Scott wrote:
Let's refer back to the preamble, shall we?


I may be way off base with this, but was the preamble OOG or from someone from Perplex City? If it was from them, then I'm still not convinced. Of course they'd say that, if they're up to something. If this wasn't something they sent to us then it's a different story.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:32 pm
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