unforum

[jshall]

IRC chats

[JMilton]

Here's a very long one....it's attached for your viewing pleasure...

Basically, I chitchatted with Uriel for a bit, Darkstar told Jibril that the easiest safe way to send the evidence found at Megiddo to us humans would be via the post, then Jibril announced that there is going to be a joint session of the Angelic Conclave and Council of Perceptions tonight, in about 12 hours, to discuss a bunch of different things.

Then it got good. Jibril called Azrael in about Raziel's soul. Azrael got mad at Misery and me and Jibril, so he left in a huff. Jshall defended Azrael, and then said that Mikhail had more motive to take out Raziel than Azrael did, so Jibril kicked Jshall, then PMed me saying that Jshall could come back if he stopped all the blasphemy....

Then everyone went away...

[Darkstar]

Wow, I missed all the drama.

[jshall]

<jshall> Hello
<jshall> I dont think Ive met you before Malik
<jshall> Im James
<Malik> Hello James
<jshall> So what do you do?
<Malik> I am the Guardian of Hell
<jshall> I guess you know alot about the daemons then....
<Malik> Haha! You could say that, human.
<jshall> Any idea on which one uses a talon like weapon?
<Malik> Most of the Fallen Ones use talons on their corporeal forms, when they shift.
<jshall> Daemons are allowed to go to earth?
<Malik> They do so every day.
<jshall> So what exactly do you gaurd then?
<Malik> The Gates of Hell
<jshall> I mean if the daemons are allowed to go to do what they want.... What are you preventing from escaping?
<Malik> I do not prevent escape.
<jshall> What do you do then?
<Malik> I keep track of things.
<jshall> Like....
<Malik> In this way we know the whereabouts of every soul in Hell at
all times.
* Phaedra|Bath is now known as Phaedra
<ZaZen> hello Malik
<Malik> Hello ZaZen
<jshall> Why would you want to know that?
<Malik> Human...are you serious?
<jshall> Yea....
<ZaZen> it's obvious that if ur in hell ur meant to stay there hence Malik's role
<Malik> No
<jshall> HAHAHHAAHA NOOB
<jshall> go on Malik
<Malik> Daemons can shift into corporeal at all times.
<Malik> The regular denizens of Hell cannot.
<Malik> I keep track of all of them.
<Malik> Daemon and sinner
<ZaZen> by regular denizens u mean?
<Malik> If you die and your soul goes to Hell, you aren't a Daemon. You are one of the denizens.
<Phaedra> Has anyone ever gotten out?
<jshall> If you keep track of all daemons how do we not know who killed Raziel?
killed Raziel?
<Malik> Daemons get out all the time. They are allowed to because I and my angels know where they are at all times.
<Phaedra> Perhaps it wasn't a demon.
<Malik> A daemon did not kill Raziel.
<jshall> so what did? An angel who shifted into the form that daemons usually take.
<jshall> possibly...
<Malik> It is possible. Not for me to say.
<Phaedra> But have any humans ever gotten out?
<Malik> No.
<Phaedra> Are you sure?
<ZaZen> the question is why though...if an angel did kill Raziel
<Malik> Quite.
<ZaZen> sorry
<jshall> This proves Azrael is innocent. If a daemon didnt kill Raziel it must have been an angel.
<Malik> When a sinner dies, his or her soul goes to Hell and they stay until the Day of Judgement arrives.
<Malik> Until that day....they burn.
<jshall> Well... thats not to happy now is it
<ZaZen> mmmm, sounds fun
<Malik> Hell is not a happy place
* Brain\[afk] is now known as Brain\Storm
<Malik> nor is it fun
<Phaedra> How just. Could a talon possibly have been detached from a demon or an angel?
<Brain\Storm> Hello Malik
<Malik> From their corporeal form? It is possible. Our forms must obey the rules of Earth. Anything that may happen to a human may happen to a shifted Angel or Daemon.
<Malik> Hello Brain.
<Phaedra> So, is it possible that something that is neither Angel nor Demon could have killed him using the talon?
<Malik> Possible? Yes.
<Malik> Probable? No.
<Phaedra> I see.
<jshall> So an angel in the form that daemons usually take killed Raziel/
<Phaedra> How strong are angels' corporeal forms?
<Malik> We obey Earthly rules during our shifts, but that does not mean that we are weak, as many humans are.
<ZaZen> what does it take to kill an angel in corporeal form?
<Malik> Even Raziel would have been able to kill a dozen humans
<Phaedra> So basically, in corporeal form, you're about as strong as a strong human?
<Malik> Stronger, Phaedra.
<Phaedra> Ah.
<Phaedra> So it would be impossible for a single human to overpower an angel, even if the angel was taken by surprise.
<Malik> It would be...very unlikely.
<Phaedra> But not impossible.
<Phaedra> I'm just trying to establish boundaries, here.
<Malik> Anything is possible.
<Malik> Of course.
<Malik> It would be within the realm of possibility, but it would not be probable under any circumstances, surprised or not.
<Phaedra> I see.
<Phaedra> When angels take corporeal form, are the more powerful ones physically stronger?
<Malik> Most times, yes.
<Phaedra> So it's *likely*, even if it's not *certain,* that Raziel was killed by an angel that is more powerful than he is?
<Brain\Storm> Trouble in paradise?
<Malik> Yes, though the power of Raziel is unknown in a corporeal form, as this last shift was his first.
<Phaedra> Ah.
<Malik> No paradise for me, Brain\Storm.
<Phaedra> But, say, Mikhail would probably be stronger than he was, yes? And Jibril?
<Malik> Mikhail, definitely. Jibril most likely.
<Phaedra> Anyone else?
<Malik> Metatron, definitely. Raphael, Uriel, Azrael would all most likely be stronger.
<Malik> Myself.
<Phaedra> But we've ruled out Azrael.
<Phaedra> Ah. Indeed?
<Malik> Yes.
<Phaedra> Do you know why anyone would want to neutralize him?
<Malik> He is the Keeper of the Sacred Mysteries.
<Phaedra> And if he is neutralized, other angels would have easy access to them?
<Malik> No.
<Malik> There is a chance they would be able to find out some of those Mysteries.
<Phaedra> Ah.
<Phaedra> I have a somewhat unrelated question: do angels know death?
<Malik> No...the only Angel that can be said to know anything of death is Azrael. The rest of us...no.
<Phaedra> What else don't you know? I'm assuming most knowledge is accessible to you. You don't know the exact time of the end times, yes?
<Malik> No, we do not.
<Malik> Israfil will know when the time has come, and we shall learn of it from him.
<Phaedra> But what else don't you know?
<Phaedra> Any specific areas of knowledge that are off-limits to you?
<Malik> How can I outline what I do not know when I do not know it?
<Malik> The Sacred Mysteries are unknown to all but Metatron and Raziel.
<Phaedra> Ah.
<Phaedra> Do angels know hate?
<Malik> The Fallen do.
<Phaedra> But not the Unfallen?
<Malik> It is possible for us to know it. We would then Fall.
<Phaedra> How do you tell when another angel has Fallen?
<Malik> They are in Hell.
<Phaedra> So *you* would know.
<Malik> Yes.
<Phaedra> Would other angels, if the Fallen angel was outside of Hell?
<Malik> As would Camael and Azrael.
<Malik> Could you be more clear?
<Malik> I do not understand.
<Phaedra> All right.
<Phaedra> Let's say that a random angel -- we'll call him George -- conceives of a hatred for someone, and Falls.
<Phaedra> Now, the Fallen angels can come and go from Hell, yes?
<Malik> Yes.
<Phaedra> So let's say that he's outside of Hell.
<Phaedra> And he runs into Uriel.
<Phaedra> Would Uriel immediately be able to recognize that he had Fallen?
<Malik> Yes.
<Phaedra> Ah.
<Malik> I think you also misunderstand what I was saying earlier.
<Phaedra> Oh? Could you clarify?
<Malik> Camael, Azrael, and I are not the only ones who know when an angel Falls.
<Malik> We are among the first to know.
<Phaedra> Ah.
<Phaedra> So the knowing isn't instantaneous.
<Phaedra> But all of you can sense it?
<Malik> Mikhail is always notified, and through him it is let known throughout Heaven what has happened.
<Malik> It isn't what you humans would call instantaneous, but it is close.
<Phaedra> Has anyone Fallen recently?
<Malik> No.
<Phaedra> So, if it was an angel that killed Raziel, it could not have been out of hate?
<jshall> So if Mikhail didnt want anyone to know he could keep it from being known that someone is fallen?
<Malik> It is sometimes possible to conceal things, but I do not think that an angel who killed Raziel out of hate would survive in Heaven unknown.
<Malik> Not from me, human.
<Phaedra> So what sort of negative emotions can you experience without Falling?
<Phaedra> Clearly anger.
<Phaedra> Greed?
<jshall> So it wasnt a daemon and a fallen angel would be discovered quickly... Then who or what could it be?
<jshall> Can you kill another angel and not be fallen?
<Malik> Greed...it can be concealed for a time.
<Malik> No, James.
<Malik> I do apologize, but I must go.
<Malik> May God be with you all.
* Malik is now known as Malik|Away
<Phaedra> heh.
<Phaedra> So
<Phaedra> Conceivably, an angel could kill another angel out of desire for the Sacred Mysteries, and not immediately Fall.
<jshall> I dont know it all seems fishy
<jshall> it cant be a daemon cause he knows where they all are and it cant be an angel cause he would fall and Malik would know
<ZaZen> so, who are our suspects at this time?
<jshall> zazen go to #angels_arg
<ZaZen> ty
* Phaedra has left #angels