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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Chasing the Wish » CTW: General/Updates
Spec: The Numbered Ones
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Caterpillar
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
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 		Spec: The Numbered Ones
SPEC:

The Numbered Ones (affectionately known as the DEGs)
From turingprinciple:
Quote:
The numbered ones are the servants of the ones above.
They seek to contain knowledge of their existence.
They are in the place that bears their name
The ones above - Human beings.


In a chat with Dale he stated in ref. to Wes:
Quote:
He (Wes) seemed to think he may have found out who the "numbered ones" are (you know, the obscure book reference).
Which is why Sam went to poke around the Library records tonight


Sam's Email:
Quote:
Speaking of Wes' place, one last thing I just remembered. I looked around for anything that might fit the "obscure book" reference Wes made about the dead eyes or "numbered ones." I couldn't find anything that looked like a book he had been currently reading, but this after all his office, not his home. There was one of those deskpad calendars on his desk, recently switched over to May, but the only thing written on it was the name, "DALE" and the words "CASTLE GREEN RD", which isn't an address I recognize from around here. I did manage to find the figurine people had asked me about, the one made by Sarah Wyatt. It was on top of his filing cabinet. Someone had suggested looking at the bottom of it but there was nothing there. It was sitting on top of a small piece of paper with this written on it however. "Mais si c'était vrai ?" I haven't had time to try and figure it out yet but I brought the paper with me to make sure I got it copied correctly.


Quote:
We found that: Mais si c'était vrai = But if it were true


Dia wrote:
Quote:
Thought I would mention that Castle Green Rd anagrams to "Le Grand Secret". This must be the obscure book.


I've spent hours researching/translating this book further and have come upon many different "reviews/plot points" and have put together a collage of everything I've translated and come accross.

Le Grand Secret by René Barjavel
It is the secrecy of the greatest fear and the greatest hope of the world.
Quote:
Immortality is one of the biggest fantasies of humanity.But if, by chance, it emerged from the bottom of a test-tube? Would it be really so desirable?

For immortality is awkward. This is a virus, maybe the most terrible one ever discovered. This virus it is that of immortality... and it is contagious!

Imagine... A population in exponential growth while the harvests would not ripen anymore, equally having become "immortal". Facing this danger, the Heads of State (concerted in the greatest secrecy in spite of their ideological differences ) come to an agreement. To avoid the propagation of the plague, the people infected are isolated on an island in the greatest of secrecy where they will live enclosed for... eternity.

In this paradisiac island, two young people's love will transform the life of the island and the fate of the world. They decide to break the interdict and to leave the island.

(Note: This part was in a snippet that talked about the need for mankind to reproduce and have children. Of course being immortal would render that impossible in some books...hence the reason for the couple wanting to leave the Island of quarantine)


Quote:
But if it were true


So my thinking is this:
As per Dale's chat, Wes found out who the Numbered Ones were via the above mentioned book. When I started reading more about it, it reminded me a lot of a penitentiary type situation where people are tagged/tattooed (numbered) to mark and keep track of them.

We're not "acting out" this particular book, so I doubt the political stuff I read bears much scrutiny (And it was difficult to translate what exactly was being said in that arena). And I'm not sure if the part about the two lovers escaping means much to our story but if the inhabitants want to protect themselves from discovery it would fit with TP's explanation of The Numbered Ones

They seek to contain knowledge of their existence.

Not sure how the Guides or Nine fit in...but I think the Nine are Good, and maybe the Guides are in-between?

The Nine
According to TP they are The Keepers of Immortality

And when looking at a snippet of Dale's "dream" - said to him by little girl who called Meaghan "My little sister". (Sarah?):
Quote:
The nine can move between but have lost their way
Restore them to what they were and you shall be rewarded


Quote:
The path between worlds
Lies in the power of belief
The nine who exist here and beyond
With them in hand the way revealed


Sound like Good Guys to me:)

~cem

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:05 am
Last edited by Caterpillar on Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:37 am; edited 8 times in total
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dmax
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 		Sweet. I always wondered what would happen if we were to take the ragged scraps of information that we've gotten over the last 5 months and put them in an annotated format. Would understanding come easier with the data, minus the dross?

cemgate, this is really nice. Thanks.
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That sounds like something HITLER would say!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:19 am
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Caterpillar
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Location: cem's otherbody

 		Thx Dan.....I believe I can now speak French. Smile

Sidenote: I don't want to get hung up on this book, as I don't believe it's our story, but it's interesting that the book uses an island and Avalon is also an island. Perfect for "containment" of sorts.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:50 am
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dmax
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 		Containment:

Read Ira Levin's wonderful "This Perfect Day."

He's a geek's dream. This is one of my favorite light reading books.
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That sounds like something HITLER would say!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:55 am
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Caterpillar
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 		It could be that when Wes referenced this book, he wasn't necessarily referring to the "immortality virus", maybe he was only referring to the "immortals" themselves. That the Numbered Ones are immortal, but by the hand of Man. Originally normal Human Beings.

The Nine might be the True Keepers of Immortality who know the true secrets of it and that in the hands of Mankind, immortality is more of a punishment than a gift. That Mankind is not worthy to possess such knowledge and knows not how to use it for good.

The Guides....well I dunno. Anyone have any Spec that might fit in here?

~cem

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:24 am
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Shelina
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cemgate2002 wrote:
It could be that when Wes referenced this book, he wasn't necessarily referring to the "immortality virus", maybe he was only referring to the "immortals" themselves. That the Numbered Ones are immortal, but by the hand of Man. Originally normal Human Beings.

The Nine might be the True Keepers of Immortality who know the true secrets of it and that in the hands of Mankind, immortality is more of a punishment than a gift. That Mankind is not worthy to possess such knowledge and knows not how to use it for good.

The Guides....well I dunno. Anyone have any Spec that might fit in here?

~cem


What about the Guides as the group helping human beings to become inmortal?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:29 am
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Caterpillar
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 		Here is an interesting Nine, although Trithemius isn't listed...Arthur is. Although I don't see anything "mystical".

The Nine Worthies
http://faculty.smu.edu/bwheeler/Ency/nine.html

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:58 am
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Caterpillar
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Shelina wrote:
What about the Guides as the group helping human beings to become immortal?


Could be.....

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:59 am
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konamouse
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cemgate2002 wrote:

The Nine might be the True Keepers of Immortality who know the true secrets of it and that in the hands of Mankind, immortality is more of a punishment than a gift. That Mankind is not worthy to possess such knowledge and knows not how to use it for good.


Just an off-the-wall Spec (which I would usually only do in chat): Don Marzano is one of the Nine. Dale has "seen" him as a younger man and we have previously spec'd that he might be "immortal" (if given help). Trimethius is one of the Nine. Linked to the Missing Manuscript. Professor Richard Whiting studies ancient manuscripts. Could the professor actually *be* Trimethius???
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r u a Sammeeeee? I am Forever!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:17 am
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Valas
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konamouse wrote:
cemgate2002 wrote:

The Nine might be the True Keepers of Immortality who know the true secrets of it and that in the hands of Mankind, immortality is more of a punishment than a gift. That Mankind is not worthy to possess such knowledge and knows not how to use it for good.


Just an off-the-wall Spec (which I would usually only do in chat): Don Marzano is one of the Nine. Dale has "seen" him as a younger man and we have previously spec'd that he might be "immortal" (if given help). Trimethius is one of the Nine. Linked to the Missing Manuscript. Professor Richard Whiting studies ancient manuscripts. Could the professor actually *be* Trimethius???


Hmm.. Well we have a pic on him. Suggest someone sticks a beard on him in a paint program so we can run a rough facial compairson. Very Happy

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:54 pm
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Steffeny
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 		SPEC The nine
cemgate2002 wrote:
It could be that when Wes referenced this book, he wasn't necessarily referring to the "immortality virus", maybe he was only referring to the "immortals" themselves. That the Numbered Ones are immortal, but by the hand of Man. Originally normal Human Beings.

The Nine might be the True Keepers of Immortality who know the true secrets of it and that in the hands of Mankind, immortality is more of a punishment than a gift. That Mankind is not worthy to possess such knowledge and knows not how to use it for good.

The Guides....well I dunno. Anyone have any Spec that might fit in here?

~cem



I'm at work stealing minute to read and post... I think Ursulla (MyssFitz) posted a link some time ago regarding the Eastern thoughts of the Nine Worthies- each one was in charge of conservation of information in different scientific areas; mathematics, Microbiology, philosophy, physics, etc.

SO if indeed these are the conservators of information, to see that the knoledge is always available to mankind. What if instead of conserving and SHARING the knowledge, they are conserving and HIDING the knowledge?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:56 pm
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Caterpillar
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 1887
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konamouse wrote:
Just an off-the-wall Spec (which I would usually only do in chat): Don Marzano is one of the Nine. Dale has "seen" him as a younger man and we have previously spec'd that he might be "immortal" (if given help). Trimethius is one of the Nine. Linked to the Missing Manuscript. Professor Richard Whiting studies ancient manuscripts. Could the professor actually *be* Trimethius???


I think Marzano seems too "self-serving" to be one of the Nine. I think the Nine are somehow probably the most benevolent of the groups we're dealing with. Everything that I've read suggests they need to be restored in order to "put things right" and obtain "balance".

~cem

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:39 am
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Steffeny
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cemgate2002 wrote:
konamouse wrote:
Just an off-the-wall Spec (which I would usually only do in chat): Don Marzano is one of the Nine. Dale has "seen" him as a younger man and we have previously spec'd that he might be "immortal" (if given help). Trimethius is one of the Nine. Linked to the Missing Manuscript. Professor Richard Whiting studies ancient manuscripts. Could the professor actually *be* Trimethius???


I think Marzano seems too "self-serving" to be one of the Nine. I think the Nine are somehow probably the most benevolent of the groups we're dealing with. Everything that I've read suggests they need to be restored in order to "put things right" and obtain "balance".

~cem


I think the good Richard Whiting, is not one of the nine. If he were I don't think Wes would be talking about using him as a useful source of information given that his son Todd is one of them.
Kona, I aslo think we have been told that the Nine have "fallen off the Path" so to speak, and are not behaving in the manner they should be. Could it be that the Nine are the stones, and those who possess or control each stone become a member of the Nine? In that case, if we could get our hands on the stones (or get Sam or Phyllis) then the new people would become the Nine - especially if the stones take on the personality quirks of the users?
Marzano is an evil man, he may have been an evil man long before becoming one of the nine. If he took the stone from someone else, and has played with it, maybe he has tainted it, and perhaps the others by the strength of his personality?

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:48 am
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Valas
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Steffeny wrote:


I think the good Richard Whiting, is not one of the nine. If he were I don't think Wes would be talking about using him as a useful source of information given that his son Todd is one of them.
Kona, I aslo think we have been told that the Nine have "fallen off the Path" so to speak, and are not behaving in the manner they should be. Could it be that the Nine are the stones, and those who possess or control each stone become a member of the Nine? In that case, if we could get our hands on the stones (or get Sam or Phyllis) then the new people would become the Nine - especially if the stones take on the personality quirks of the users?
Marzano is an evil man, he may have been an evil man long before becoming one of the nine. If he took the stone from someone else, and has played with it, maybe he has tainted it, and perhaps the others by the strength of his personality?


Todd is a DEG not a member of the Nine.
According to ST1, The Don was/is a member, as was/is Trimethius.
And who says that that it's impossible for him to be a member just because he's evil??

He could be Saruman, the Nine being akin to the Istari in this symbolical comparison.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:34 pm
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Caterpillar
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Valas wrote:
Todd is a DEG not a member of the Nine.
According to ST1, The Don was/is a member, as was/is Trimethius.
And who says that that it's impossible for him to be a member just because he's evil??


I don't think anyone is saying anything is impossible at this point. I think Steffeny was actually agreeing with the fact that Marzano could be one of The Nine. I (for the purpose of my formed opinion...lol) would like to believe he's not.

I think this conversation from ST1 as to whether or not Marzano is one of the Nine leaves a lot open to interpretation. But it's always a safe bet believeing the opposite of what I do, because I'm generally wrong. Smile
Quote:
dmax801: is don marzano human?
Shadowtalk: he is like the others of his kind
dmax801: what is his kind?
Shadowtalk: calculating
Shadowtalk: nine
dmax801: who are the others of the nine
Shadowtalk: you do
Shadowtalk: not
Shadowtalk: understand
dmax801: please explain so that i can
Shadowtalk: listen
Shadowtalk: they are here
dmax801: explain Marzano and nine so that i can understand
Shadowtalk: they have found


Maybe someone could ask TP to see if we get a definitive response.

~cem

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:01 pm
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