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[cerulean]

Setec Astronomy

[imbri]

Re: Setec Astronomy

[cerulean]

We're probably going to end up arguing the same point from different perspectives, but in the name of intellectual (well, sort of) debate, here goes...

1. TINAG
It depends again on what the definition of TINAG is. Does it mean the players don't realise it's a game, or does it mean that the game doesn't realise it's a game. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that the game world must be as complete as possible. You should be able to google a character and have a whole lot of sites come up that flesh out the character's background but which do not even have to relate to the storyline.

I don't, however, think that it's necessary for the player to be unaware that it's a game. It is, of course, a good thing during the pre-game or early game phase if it can be built into the game, but after that I don't think it matters. And in fact, I think more people would be interested in playing a game that involves registering their details with a mysterious agency rather than actually registering in a mysterious agency that they believe is real.

2. Puzzles
The main issues I have with puzzles are :
a. They sometimes don't seem to be realistic. Why would a pharmaceutical company have a secret message in semacode on it's corporate website? Or have secret messages in the web page source code?
b. They tend to be difficult to solve. While that's what the hard core ARGers want, I think it makes ARGs less approachable for people just getting into the genre. How many times have we come across puzzles that require finding a password that's hidden in a stegged file and then using that to unlock a document that's written in hexadecimal code backwards and then finding that the decrypted text is a cryptic clue in Armenian that gives the Amazon.com code for a book title that you need to e-mail to the person you're trying to help (who is actually the bad guy in disguise)? Experienced ARGers will know exactly how to approach the problem because they've done it several times before. Have pity on the newcomer though, who will probably give up and watch Desperate Housewives instead.

3. Competition
Look at football players (any code). They are simultaneously members of rival teams but are all football fanatics. I don't think that competition is necessarily the anathema of community

[rose]

examples

[buff]

Look on advertisement online before The Beast came along.

Rules that seemed to be cast in iron were suddenly chucked out of the window.

Can't see why the same thing can't happen again.

[vpisteve]

To me, there aren't rules as much as there are things that have been proven to work, things that have proven to be problematic, things that have proven to not work at all, and things that haven't been tried yet. On top of that, there's responsible game design, which takes into account all of these, and irresponsible game design, which takes none of these into account and doesn't bother to try to foresee consequences. I've seen instances of all of these.

But rules? Nope.

[PokeKiller]

Darn it, cerulean, if I've told you once, I've told you a million times: Stop spying on my plans!
I should explain. For a while I've been working on my very own ARG. It's called ForkFinders. No other name. I plan on making that abundantly clear by putting a banner with that name on it on the top of every ingame site, all of which will have the letters "ARG" in their URL.
I was collecting funding for a commercial, and it'll be great! There will be a fork in the middle of the screen, and then, it'll start talking! It says "Dude. I'm not even real. But talk to me and find my fellow forks with me. Even though I'm not real." And then it shows the URL for the meta site, which I imagine will be www.argforkfindersarg.com, although I can't decide between that and www.argforkargfindersargargarg.com. Oh, wait, did I say meta site? I guess that's a little broad, considering the main page of every site will give a long and detailed description of ARGs and what the game is about.
Of course, there will be plenty of interaction, especially on AIM. I expect a typical conversation will go something like this:

[krystyn]

Just figures, I have ten thousand spoons, when all I need is a fork.

[buff]

What is the going-rate between a fork and a pair of chopsticks?

[i_monk]

[strife777]

1) I think (and correct me if I'm wrong), that TINAG refers to the in-game world being able to blur into our world and being whole. It doesn't mean that we as a community believe this stuff is really happening, it just means that there are no "holes" to allow us to prove that it ISN'T happening.

2) If you don't like solving puzzles/have trouble with them...let the rest of the group that enjoys them do it. Might sound silly, but I think each of us have our own preferences and favorite thing to do with ARG's. Some like interacting with the characters and firing off 20,000 emails/calling numbers. Some like speccing. Some like puzzles. I personally don't like the whole "Everybody e-mail all the main characters, and they all respond as if they didn't randomly get 10 million emails, thing." but at the same time I realize, what can you do, people like doing it. Some people like challenging puzzles. If it isn't for you, focus on the stuff that is. ARG's are like a delicious watermelon-strawberry-broccoli-beer combination, where you can sink your teeth into what you prefer and let the others handle the rest.

On the other hand, I do agree with the puzzles needing to make sense. Puzzles for the sake of puzzles can be disconcerting, at least try to make up some legitimate reason to have them please.

3) I'm not really sure about you comparing football and ARG's. Football is a competitive game, ARG's are generally interactive media. There no "Winner" to an ARG, IMHO, just a means to the end. I have a few issues with competition though. For one, you're generally setting it up so one group or the other isn't getting the whole story, especially if its side vs side, and not a race to the end type. My mega-government wants to stop your rebel troops, so I know the governments ideas, you know the rebels....within 3 days I'd be signing up with your side too to get the whole story. Thats the main draw to an ARG for me, the story. Why would I purposefully limit myself to half of it?

[cerulean]

2. I don't mind broccoli beer. And most of the people here would eat the whole thing. I just worry about new players who have stumbled upon an ARG and who just want a cup of tea. But yes, I see your point.

3.

[i_monk]

An ARG can have a winner/winners without dividing the player community against itself rather easily: reward player/s out of the blue, preferably towards or at the end.

Maybe it's not fair, but then how fair is it to launch a national or global ARG but cater to one timezone or a handful of payphones in one region? Not everyone can take a few weeks off work to ensure they get a chance to call a certain number released in a puzzle at 2pm local time, change their sleep schedule, or cross the continent to answer a phone. We accept (more or less) that not everyone will be able to participate in every aspect.

[strife777]

The only problem I see with a "Points" system is it totally kills people being able to walk in Mid-Game. ARG's generally pull people in throughout their cycles...a lot of people won't even try something if they know they can't win.