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 Forum index » Meta » General META Discussion
PM safety/player privacy
Moderators: imbri, ndemeter
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

PM safety/player privacy

I've been following CTW and it looks like people have been finding the mark of the bad guys around their yard, mailbox, etc. I'm not sure if this is done by the PMs personally, or whether the players had granted permission for someone to come on their property. If I were a PM, I'd be concerned for my own safety if I were sneaking around someone's yard at night.

Does anyone know the back story on this? If it's something you'd rather not discuss until after the game ends, just say so. Very Happy

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:03 pm
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Myssfitz
Unfettered


Joined: 26 Feb 2003
Posts: 695
Location: In the pasture

Re: PM safety/player privacy

addlepated wrote:
I've been following CTW and it looks like people have been finding the mark of the bad guys around their yard, mailbox, etc. I'm not sure if this is done by the PMs personally, or whether the players had granted permission for someone to come on their property. If I were a PM, I'd be concerned for my own safety if I were sneaking around someone's yard at night.

Does anyone know the back story on this? If it's something you'd rather not discuss until after the game ends, just say so. Very Happy


Or maybe the PM's told the players what to do? And I haven't been marked, so I'm just specing along with you.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:12 pm
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Ormus
Boot


Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Detroit, roughly

hrm

renee asked if i'd seen any signs of unusual men or the circular graffiti, which i laughed off.
now, not so laughing. ;o)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:45 pm
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danman_d
Decorated


Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 233
Location: New York, NY

I, too, am somewhat interested/concerned about this. LazarusLong? Sunny? What are your thoughts?

-Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:45 pm
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terminalskeptik
Unfettered


Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 351
Location: Onboard the Groovy Purple Derigible

I know that if anyone (PM or not) came sneaking around my place at night, i live in an apartment and the guy next to me will shoot anything that makes a funny noise. He is nuts. That makes me concerned about the safety of PMs. Also, try explaining to a patrol car, that just happens to see you spraypainting some strange rune in the grass, just what an ARG is. I dont think that would go over well.

Seriously, there has to be a line drawn somewhere with these things. I just hope that people are smart enough to get a PO Box and NOT give out their home address. PMs could turn out to be casing our homes, and we practically gave them permission.

remember....trust no one. (sorry, I couldnt resist Wink )
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:16 pm
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Sunny du Pree
Unfettered


Joined: 01 Jan 2003
Posts: 636
Location: Push, Nevada

terminalskeptik wrote:
I know that if anyone (PM or not) came sneaking around my place at night, i live in an apartment and the guy next to me will shoot anything that makes a funny noise. He is nuts. That makes me concerned about the safety of PMs. Also, try explaining to a patrol car, that just happens to see you spraypainting some strange rune in the grass, just what an ARG is. I dont think that would go over well.

Seriously, there has to be a line drawn somewhere with these things. I just hope that people are smart enough to get a PO Box and NOT give out their home address. PMs could turn out to be casing our homes, and we practically gave them permission.

remember....trust no one. (sorry, I couldnt resist Wink )


The PM's are really smart. They put in a year of work into these games so that they can come and steal your tv.
OH ITS NOT A GRAFFITI RING AT ALL IT IS A THEFT RING!
They mark their victims house that they are going to steal from and then when you are not at home.... boy they are wasting their time if they come to steal from me. They wouldnt even recoup their traveling expenses.
What DRAMA! Rolling Eyes
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Sunny Du Pree
I dreamed a dream and now that dream has come for me


PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:37 pm
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

I think he was saying that his neighbor, who probably doesn't know anything about ARGs, might have a problem with a stranger sneaking around the complex at night.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that the PMs have... arrangements in order to keep homeowners, guard dogs, and police from nabbing them in the middle of the night.

The main reason I posted the question is that my husband had a minor freakout when I told him about the mailbox and yard graffiti, so I wanted to ease his mind. I think he was imagining himself as Nick van Orton and was not amused. Wink

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:46 pm
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MrDoug
Veteran

Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Posts: 74
Location: On the Outside looking in

Different?

How much different is it than receiving odd packages in the mail that you did not ask for with an address you do not know. In this day and age of rampant paranoia I know I would not sneak around Anyone's house that I knew or did not know.

If it is the work of the PM they sure must have a lot of frequent flyer miles or a personal jet to get around the way they have.

From what has been seen in this game the level of professionalism has far exceed anything to date, I would not worry to much about them, as I do not see them throwing it all away on a simple mistake.

You can just see the post: "The game is temporarily suspended until the PM makes bail. Please contribute to the get the PM out of jail fund so we can finish the game"
Wink

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:53 pm
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bill
Unfettered


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 614
Location: Tampa

Re: Different?

MrDoug wrote:
You can just see the post: "The game is temporarily suspended until the PM makes bail. Please contribute to the get the PM out of jail fund so we can finish the game"
Wink


Hahahah! Chasing the Bail Money! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:15 am
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vpisteve
Asshatministrator


Joined: 30 Sep 2002
Posts: 2441
Location: 1987

Wait officer, this isn't what it looks like!!

I can explain.......

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:22 am
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Sandra
Decorated


Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Posts: 252

Isn't the issue really the level of immersion we select? I can't remember the exact options we were offered in CTW, but when I signed up for Acheron there were many options for level of immersion. I select just about all of them (phone, mail, packages) except for face-to-face contact. There was even an option where it appeared that you could receive packages or even face-to-face contact that you would not know about ahead of time.

Knowing the identity of the main PM and how he/she can be reached is enough security for me to hand over my email, phone number, and even address.

Regarding the marking - I did get a stone and was not marked. It could have been because the stone was sent to me at the last minute, or it could be that I live in a condo and it would be difficult for someone to tell exactly which unit was mine - and I know the association wouldn't be happy with a "tag" on the front stoop or one of the garages.

Sandra aka Passion

PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:14 pm
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dmax
Unfictologist

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1387
Location: Location: Location!

vpisteve wrote:
Wait officer, this isn't what it looks like!!

I can explain.......

"If I don't spray this circle on their mailbox they'll be attacked by these guys in hoods with scarred faces and extra digits on their hands!..."
...
"The LOONEY BIN? Oh, please. Been there. Done that."
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That sounds like something HITLER would say!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:07 am
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Simulacra
Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Down the rabbithole

Ei Paranoia, I've got something for ya...

Reading this discussion gets me really worried and really happy that I do not live in the US. I have been involved in real-life larping and ARG stuff in Sweden and never before encountered this kind of paranoid attitude. And believe me, there has been some pretty hardcore stuff going on. I really don't understand this immense fear shown by this husband and the neighbor.

Please tell me, what are you people so afraid of?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:10 pm
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Ozy_y2k
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 460
Location: Carmel, Indiana

Rolling Eyes Oh, please. Spare us your smirking, more-enlightened-than-thou Europeanisms. The reality of the situation, whether you in your little self-satisfied cocoon choose to acknowledge it or not, is that the world (not just the United States) IS an increasingly more dangerous and unpredictable place, and taking a moment to be concerned about the possible misinterpretations of the motives of actors around you is not paranoia, merely pragmatism. If I, as a good neighbor, saw some random individual engaging in what -- to a random passerby's eyes -- looked like wanton vandalism of property, I too would be concerned. Possibly concerned enough to at least report the activity to authorities. To assume otherwise (without being warned or having a reasonable suspicion in advance that the activity was harmless) is not laissez-faire, it's apathetic and socially irresponsible.

Also, even if a player chooses a specific immersion experience, that gives no assurances whatsoever about the comfort or privacy level of those who happen to be in the general vicinity of the game (i.e. neighbors) but who are not "playing". What was it that someone once said? "Your right to swing your fist ends where the bridge of my nose begins?"

That said, I too hope that the PMs in games like this have contingency plans in effect for "full-immersion" experiences, just in case. Smile

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 2:33 pm
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LazarusLong
Unfettered


Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 453
Location: 93 miles SW of Ted Kaczynski's cabin

The conspiracy revealed

Well, now that the curtain has been raised, removed, and sent out for dry cleaning, I'll fess up.

As Dave noted in chat last night, neither he nor any of the BTS staff was involved planting any of the grafitti at any of our houses. Yes, there was a conspiracy involved, and if the ringleader chooses to identify him-or-herself, they can do so. But it was a grassroots conspiracy, designed to keep everyone on their toes, cause a bit of a WTF reaction from the other players, and generally blur the lines between the game and real life. While Dave admitted that he found the whole thing amusing, he was not involved, nor did not condone or sanction our actions in any way.

I refrained from posting until now because I wanted to see what direction this thread was going to take. I note that there are a lot of people getting paranoid over the idea that the PM's are going to come sneaking around their houses in the dead of night. That is an absurd idea, both from a logistical and a financial point of view, as well as placing people at substantial personal risk. As I noted in chat one evening after having been "marked" by the numbered ones, "I'll bet my .357 against their 307 any day".

So, let's end the spec right now. The PM and his merry crew did not go flying all around the country to leave grafitti ay my house, or at anyone elses home. I was not one of the BTS people in the game, who should be praised for the unbelievable jobs they did, this was just my little gift to the game. I'm sorry that it has caused so much concern among the players.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:48 pm
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