unforum

[Mima]

[UPDATE] May 23 - Sentinel - New Futures/Headlines

[cassandra]

oh, Alexander Pope...

[The First Speaker]

[UPDATE] May 23 - New Sentinal Article - PCX Stagnates

[JebJoya]

Wow... that's a tiny amount for a share index to move by to be newsworthy... Is there no growth or risk in perplex city?

Jeb

[Leeravitz]

Oh, and riddle me this, Batman,

Who is it exactly that we imagine the Perplexians are trading commodities with??

We have some estimations that there may be neighbouring towns, or maybe separatist districts of the City proper (it could be one of those gigantic world Cities - although frankly, it doesn't look big enough to me, in those terms). Clearly, also, there's a lot of internal trading goes on.

But it's still a bit of a puzzle - we have no indication whether Perplexians have any notion of nation states for a start...

And I guess they aren't trading anything directly with Earth...

Curious...

[leakingpen]

The Half-filled Jug (July 11 - August 10)
Let's recap. Money? Check. Love? Check. And coming around the corner, a touch of harmless adventure? Totally check. Spice it up, babe.


okay, thats wrong. well, funny. my ppc astrology is deader on than anything ive seen here. hehe.

[Mosestrotsky]

There is also the similarity of the Eagle words (I have suspected that some of the words in The Eagle futures have similar meanings)

Peek, Mellow - the maturing with age

or/and

Snap, Mellow - associations with sound

[Mima]

Jeb, the fact that the article is commenting on the lack of movement, makes this "stagnation" unusual.

Leeravitz, even if they are only trading within the city boundaries here are some possibilities of things that could be listed on the exchange:

1. Listed companies - shares of allsorts of different varieties, and various gambles on shares (known as derivatives). Companies issue shares, and the buyers are part owners of the company. Eg. Centrifuge's stock price decline and poor Crispy Heaven. When they had to shut all those locations, their shares dropped nearly seven percent on the news, to PCL153.37.
2. Commodities and derivatives. If you grew corn and wanted oranges, you would still need a method of buying and selling. Futures would be a common derivative trade, where someone promises to buy an amount of something eg. oranges at a fixed price on a fixed date in the future. The gamble is whether the price is higher or lower, they still pay that price.
3. Bonds. These could be issued by the PPC govening body as a way of raising money to finance a civic project, eg the building of a new hospital. People buy the bond at a price, and PPC promises to pay them back (with a bit more) at a fixed date in the future.

Basically, they don't need to be trading with another place to have need of an exchange. As far as I can remember, they also don't specifically say what type of exchange it is.

[Leeravitz]

Fair enough from the economic point of view, I guess.

Historically, of course, the main reason exchanges proper grew up in the first place was to do with long distance trade, and colonial enterprises as far as I'm aware - things like the Dutch Bourse, and the exchange centres of the Hanseatic League...

But I guess you're right that we have no clear idea what sort of exchange it is - and, indeed, if the City is to be considered more or less all that exists within the 'parallel universe', then, clearly, it has to be 'trading' internally in order to generate any kind of economic flow at all.

I suppose if your entire civilization clusters about a central civic point, then it could well gradually develop from a barter economy through a period of consolidation and central redistribution of goods to a more centrally controlled commodity economy.

But, historically, the development might still be a bit off - kilter: before you get insurance and futures trading, you probably need to have developed a notional system of banking and virtual transferals of money and ,historically, that had a lot to do with moving around to far - flung places. But I agree I'm being pedantic - its much the same argument as the idea that, technologically, the developments in the City are hard to justify as many notable developments in our technosphere were hugely catalysed through the coming of a savage war and conflict that Perplex City appears to have avoided for some 200 years (such developments include usage of nuclear power, air flight, computing technology, sailing technology, medical breakthroughs in e.g. plastic surgery and blood transfusion, satellite and radar usage etc. etc.).

Still, I'm probably being needlessly parochial in such an analysis - after all, if our society had stayed at the level of the city - state, then the situation could have evolved very differently...perhaps that's why Perplexians have such affinity for city - state cultures on earth, like those of ancient Greece??

[cassandra]

I don't see why there's a reason to assume there is no external trade in Perplex City. The minor headlines over the weeks in the Sentinel always seem to suggest the existence of other cities nearby (though perhaps not at quite the same level of development). [I'm thinking of the peace accord, VC envoy, Portside docks, Mayors' event, 'Foreign affairs,' football league, etc.]

From the history, in BC PXC had extended its patronage in a 500-mile radius to other villages and towns...I'm thinking that these developed into entities such as Gladstone. But I believe there are certainly other populated areas in the region. I don't believe PXC is a closed system.

[Leeravitz]

Having looked at all this from a number of angles now, I can only conclude that...things don't entirely point one way or another.

It *is* evident that there were once towns adjacent to the City in historic times, and that gradually the central conurbation swallowed them up. Perhaps this is, indeed, why a region like Gladstone retains a certain autonomy even to this day. Whether the City is in contact nowadays with regions beyond its immediate boundaries (if, indeed, anything *exists* beyond the City's 'natural boundaries' remains a tricky question to answer).

However, it's also clear that economic and civic progress does, in part, emerge within the City on purely internal lines. We can note that the competition between Key Surety and Centrifuge for security contracts is said to have encouraged the technological developments of the past decade. There seems to be a long tradtion of skilled Perplexians, winners of the PCAG etc. ploughing sponsorship into civic projects (perhaps including benefits to the poor). And I guess that the great know - how of the Academicians must forever be spinning off from the theoretical into the directly technologically applicable. So, there's clearly a tradition of commercial rivalry within the City, internal encouragement for product improvement in order to outsell rivals, the likely possibility of civic bonds, and an almost certain set of listed companies, as Mima pointed out.
And it's surely through the benevolent(?) combination of laissez - faire capitalism and state socialism that Perplex City has managed to reach a peak of technological sophistication beyond our own, without having experienced the catalytic influence of war, overseas exploration and so on...presumably...

So, does this prove whether or not there are places *beyond* the City? The jury's still out, I'd say...

[yanka]