unforum

[Daffy889]

Re: [Spec] BC/AC new information

[yanka]

[Leeravitz]

Ah, I hadn't paid enough attention to that - still, maybe it does imply that the Council was initially a Republican type institution or some such.

It's clear from what little we do know that the City has had a progressive development over time in some sense - otherwise, the disparity between its 'modern' and its pre - industrial states wouldn't be worth mentioning. In other words, the accretion of technology has emerged in the City gradually, as it has in our world, although, presumably, at an earlier, faster rate, relative to us.

Its interesting that City history does seem to have been marked with conflict and probable political and religious shifts also, but we don't know nearly enough about it to understand this process of development in full.

I may take a closer look at the Wiki again, and see if I (trained historian that I am) can detect any useful parallels here...

But, hey, BC/AC remains as mysterious as ever...

[Scott]

has anyone asked scarlett what BC / AC stand fFor? she's right dismal at answering questions, but maybe if we give her something simple, she'll be more willing. I suggest a lot of people mail her this one question. (This means you.)

[Leeravitz]

OK. I've had a proper look at the timeline now. Whether the following is actually at all relevant or not is another question...

We know that scholars like Coralhouse were developing a 'Convergent Development' theory, which leads me to ask whether this means that, literally, historical developments in and around Perplex City were *very broadly* similar to those that occurred on Earth at similar times (although there may - repeat may- be a technological imbalance in the City's favour somewhere along the line).

We don't know much about the great stretches of early time BC, although it appears as if they were basic, in the same way that prehistory and the ancient period were basic. We've had brief mention of sabre - toothed tigers and cave painting, and, although I forgot the name of the pottery wares, there are clearly artefacts from much earlier eras held by the Academy (the civilizations which created such artefacts *might* have been comparable to ancient states or empires of our world, perhaps - the Classical Greek, the Roman, the Egyptian, the Han Chinese etc.).

We know that significant development towards a more 'modern' world begins c. 700 BC. Allowing for the fact that our definition of 'modern' can remain very broad to start with, the start of this period seems to me comparable to the High - Late Middle Ages, which ties in fairly well with the equivalent Earth dates. The fact that the Academy was founded around this time may be a parallel to the formation of university centres in Europe between c. 1100 - 1500, including great institutions such as Oxford, Cambridge, Paris, Bologna etc - although, of course, it would not then have been very like the Academy community we see today.

The Cube was found at the point in time which approximates to the middle of our 18th century - a date that isn't easily comparable with anything much. Perhaps the 'conflicts' in the years leading up to the institution of a more peaceable, and workable, Perplexian society, however, are an approximate analogue to the religious and dynastic convulsions which shocked Europe (and the wider world) through the 16th and 17th centuries.

Broadly speaking, even in our world, up until the final decade which ushered in the French Revolution, the coming of Napoleon etc., the 18th century was curiously peaceable and law - abiding compared to the ages that had immediately preceded it. It was also the era in which philosophical designs for transforming Europe (and the wider world) into a technological and sociological utopia really became widespread for the first time. What all this may have to do with the Cube is another question.

That the dating system shifted at this point still makes little overt sense; interestingly, though, near the end of the 18th century (thus later than in the City), the Jacobin revolutionaries of France attempted to put through a reform of the then - prevailing dating system in the hope of 'rationalising' it, so that it accorded better with the working week, the passage of the seasons, and the revolutionary spirit more generally. It lasted for a few years in France, until Napoleon disposed of it. Perhaps (and this *is* a big stretch - there is at least a parallel in the idea that the dating system was rationalised...)

Of course, another comparison that even's closer to home here is the adoption of the Gregorian system by the English in 1752 (the Cube appears in 'our' time - 1757). Gregorian dating was hardly new in the 18th century (introduced, in fact, by Papal decree back in the 16th century), but England had previously stuck with the far more ancient Julian system, and dropped ten days from the year reckoning in order to come in line with the rest of Europe, at this mid - 18th century point.

Maybe it was the case that the cult of 'rationalism' won adherents in the City more solidly than in our world, where the French ethos of liberty, equality and fraternity, was contested savagely in the early 1800's, so Perplex City got the head start upon us at this point.

Known dates equivalent to the mid - late 19th century our time appear to imply that the development of the City, its considerable industrialisation, and the furtherance of its technological efficiency occurred principally in this era, and it was a time when, for instance, the Sentinel was first flourishing (the Pulitzer - Hearst parallel seems striking to me)...

Whether the City technologically raced ahead of 'us' at this point is hard to gauge - maybe, and then again, maybe not. In 'our' world, the 19th century was also an era of great invention, discovery and development, and everything from telegraphy to radioactivity to prototype plastics was being put to productive use.

But what Perplex City appears to have been blessed with (that this world, of course, wasn't) was a pretty peaceable 20th century equivalent. The City, presumably, went on developing idyllically (it can't help but put you in mind of one of those 1930's visions of the great metropolitan future...), and technology continued to keep pace with development (whereas, over here, there were the slight matters of a couple of World Wars and a Cold War to deal with!).

Thus, by the time we reach 'modern' times, the City appears pretty Earth like in lots of respects (they, too, have stock market economies, rock and roll, and fast food joints) as well as a tech that seems to be somewhat in advance of our own (ceretin, keys, driverless vehicles etc.)

They appear to have been picking up on contact with Earth since at least the early 70's (our time) and maybe earlier, which might well imply that their knowledge of us first came courtesy of Internet or satellite developments over here. Earth culture has evidently been infilitrating Perplex City society as a 'fad' since the 80's (a consumer boom period??!), although whether the two cultures are actually very alien to each other anyway appears to be a rather moot point.

If we look at the City itself, it does appear to have accreted over time: we are aware of things like the Ruins and the Catacombs, which belong to periods ancestral (it would seem) to the expansion of the City. The Old Town is (presumably) much more antique than the rest of the City, and, indeed, its cramped alleyways and slightly seedy reputation seem to indicate that it was an original nucleus from which the rest of the City emerged, gradually 'opening out' to incorporate properly landscaped vistas, parks, theatre buildings, and latterly, one must assume, skyscrapers. It wouldn't surprise me if we find that the Academy is a mixture of old and new buildings (and already we have some hints that this might, indeed, be the case) and so on...

Overall, it appears as if, barring certain difficulties with controlling blackmarket activities, smoothing over political quarrels and so on, Perplex City is a fairly utopian construct for the most part - certainly, rather more so than, say, New York or London or Tokyo actually is. Then again, perhaps we haven't seen much of its real face yet - it could still be an Orwellian dystopia under the demure facade...

I wonder if any of that theorising is, in any way, correct ??!

[sledgecallier]

I'm officially a Newbie, so please don't trout me but...

My impression has been that Perplex City was not the utopian society that they would like us to believe it is. From the small amount we have been told there has been the reports of 2 murders. (The Corolla case and the murder of Holyoke at the Five of Cups.)

Equally telling is the fact that the Defence budget for the city is 40 Billion, possibly rising to PLC43 with extra spent on research. (Research on what I wonder?) The report quotes Councilor Earlywine, saying that the defence bubget covers crime fighting within the city - "We all know his jurisdiction includes fighting organized crime, illegal drugs, [and other] threats to our metropolitan character and security." The report also says that Commander Isaac Sui deneid any foriegn threat, meaning that a majority of the budget could be going on crime fighting within the city?

Hardly a picture of quiet, peaceful, utopian society but of a city with a seedy underside. Perhaps one that has grown more prevelent since the theft of the Cube?

A final thought is that the Holyoke murder is more important to the theft of the cube than people currently seem to be letting on?

[The First Speaker]

[oliverkeers13]

Here's what I think:
The cube is made of an unearthly substance; the logical conclusion is that it came from outer space. The AC/BC could stand for Before and After Comet, a date when a comet passed next to PC. IT took seven years to find the cube after this.
Alternatively it could be collision, similar to the extinction of the dinosaurs on our world, when the comet hit their world.
Just spec I know, but seems probable

[<PSH>]

[Leeravitz]

OK - I've *really* had a proper look at the timeline now. I wasn't looking properly before. What is obvious here is that Perplex City's 'convergent development' in relation to Earth was not as convergent as I thought.

The Academy site indicates four major stages of City history:

1. Circa 3000 BC
2. 2000 to 1250 BC
3. 1250 to 700 BC
4. 700 to 0 BC

With apologies for my mathematical incompetence, I assume that the approximate parallels 'our' time are:

1.Circa 737 BC?
2. 263 BC to 487 AD
3. 487 to 1037
4. 1037 to 1737.

It would appear that, in the earliest period, there was a sort of nomadic population living on the site of the city, at a level akin to that of Earth's Neolithic (New Stone) Age. These people appear to have possessed earthenware pottery (maybe unbaked - which is called Tronten ware - whether after a group of people, or its discoverer remains uncertain to me), they hunted for food (possibly sabre - tooths and deer), had some kind of simple glyptic writing and, perhaps, developed the first traditions of puzzling/riddling in City society through geometric inscriptions and oral traditions. They lived alongside the river, which, no doubt, supplied them with considerable sustenance.

Broadly speaking, little of this fails to fit with the models of Neolithic era people existing at the equivalent time on Earth in places like Europe. We learn that the Perplexians seem to have been involved in cave painting at this time (maybe earlier - although 'earth wise', cave painting is a paleolithic, rather than Neolithic, tradition) and they created a writing system seemingly earlier than it was developed in the equivalent civilizations on earth.

The only peculiarity not fitting this model well is the suggestion, on the Academy site, that a mosaic of considerable delicacy is within the grounds, and has been dated back some 4,000 years - it seems odd to credit these simple nomadic people with the creation of such a thing...

We know much less about the next stage, but, broadly, it may have marked a 'Classical' era for the City, akin, perhaps, to Greco - Roman times. The City would appear to have inherited an amphitheatre from this period, the ancient Hausam theatre (in which 'classic' works are performed). It appears that a patrician class first initiated the Council (in moves reminscent of the Roman state) during this period, and moved on to subjugate their neighbours' lands (again akin to the activities of the Roman Republic). Silver mining may have become more extensively developed in this period, and thus contributed to the further formation of both the Catacombs and a monetary local economy. Hinterland agriculture (of which the last remnants today are perhaps on the Northside?) supported the rapidly urbanising centre (again, a very common pattern in the Classical era city - state on earth). There was also a flourishing of literature and art (again, very Greco - Roman with one particular author, 'Lemnal', who with work extant in numerous versions, each of which may actually be by a differing author, but with all of the corpus attributed to him, is clearly an analogue of Homer).

The next period seems curiously under - described, although it has been suggested that, rather than Classical culture collapsing at about this point as it did in our world, Perplexian culture continued to evolve onwards.

This means that, by the time we reach what, in 'our' terms, is the High Middle Ages, the Perplexians are readying to set up the Academy, with what sounds like a prototype Royal Society garnering knowledge together, initially in fairly informal meetings. They are already attempting to combine occult and scientific reasonings something like 500 years before the Europeans catch up. Or, at least that's what seems to be the case. The Academy is formalised as an institution by what are (to us) the 1400's, and we know that industrial development of note is going on right up to (our date) 1737, when the Cube is discovered. Although indsutry and technology progressed in leaps and bounds in our world from the 15th - 17th centuries, the developments were as nothing compared to what took root between the 18th and 20th centuries. In Perplex City, they seem to have reached our 18th - 20th century stage back in the 1500's. So, their 'industrial revolution' far outpaces our own, and may have been complete even before the Cube arrived.

This all appears to go some way towards explaining how Perplexians can both identify a pattern of 'convergent development' in our respective histories, but also why their society so effortlessly outstrips us in technological terms. They've had the head start for a long time. Whether what has actually happened since the Cube was discovered is a bit of a slow - down (whilst earth has, to a considerable extent, caught up) is another question - but I think that this shift in the balance might be worth considering. If Perplexians feel their society is stagnating in relation to Earth, then it might explain their fascination with it...and maybe even have supplied some kind of motive for the relocating of the Cube??

[Daffy889]

Since there are no complete timelines of Perplex City history out there that I could find, I have been developing one myself, which can be found here.

Events are organised into categories, with each category viewable seperately or all events in one big list. Extra information on events is included where available, and the source of all dates is listed.

It is database driven, so I can easily keep it updated with new dates as we are given them. Note that it's only a timeline of the history of the city, so I won't be including in-game events since they would all be listed for the same year. The timeline effectively stops where the game begins.

Hopefully this will be of use to people. Any feedback and suggestions are always welcome.

[tanner]

[Scott]

excellent work!! I have been contemplating something akin to thebruce's ilb timeline; but this is very much better than anything i had been thinking up! well done!

Might i suggest making the "sente kiteway" category into a "Kiteway fFamily" category? we dont know a whole lot about the daughters, but we know violet is 25 and scarlett is 19, fFor example. Only a suggestion.

Again: Looks great

[Leeravitz]

Excellent stuff!! I guess it's always bound to come in for updating in fits and starts, though!

But seriously, great...yes, I see now that, for some reason, I got some of my early dates wrong, but most historical analysis done thus far bears with these dates.

The most important point appears to be in relation to how the evolution of Perplex City and Earth 'converged' or 'diverged': It appears that, initially, Perplexian society was *less* sophisticated than some of the societies in existence on Earth at a parallel time, but this may be misleading information, based on Academy references. There is also the intimation that a civilization or civilizations may have flourished in the area *before* the coming of nomad tribes, and these may have been a highly sophisticated people.

Thereafter, it would appear that City development and developments on Earth kept a closer pace, until about the 5th century (in earth terms). The Perplexians do not appear to have suffered the 'Dark Age' setbacks that afflicted Europe especially (and much of the world generally) in this period, and this may explain how they were able to continue to develop a more 'advanced' heritage over a longer period.

Thus, by what was to us the High Middle Ages (c.late 1100's), the Perplexians seem to have already had a fairly sophisticated science etc. in place (this is the time of Academy foundation).

This may go some way towards explaining how City technology has overtaken Earth technology in recent centuries, although I wonder if the situation is not now threatening to reverse again. The Perplexians seem to have become aware of possible contact with Earth people as our technology began to reach levels of attainment comparable to some of their own: Coralhouse and Flynn recognised some of the first 'transmissions'(?) in, to us, the early 1970's. Thereafter, it appears that, as our mediasphere has become more and more sophisticated, Perplexians have learnt more and more about Earth, but only very recently (i.e. since Sente's shock announcement) has formal contact been established.

Although this is pure spec., it may be the case that Perplex City has now reached something of a technological plateau and attainment is slowing down, whilst Earth technology may still have room to develop, and perhaps (ultimately) even overtake Perplexian achievement.

This still doesn't help to put the coming of the Cube into much of a context, though...more's the pity...

[Violet]

That timeline's amazing, thanku so much, you've cleared up loads of confusion for me! (it doesn't take much, sadly) I'm still speculating that they shared Ancient History with us and then broke away at some point because they never have a dark-age type dip in progress...