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[RobPal]

Okay, so let's say 'Archer' is the right answer. That doesn't mean that the way we came up with it is correct. There could be a much cleverer way of getting to the answer that makes complete sense, we just haven't found it yet. Instead we've stumbled upon the answer in a round-a-bout, convaluted, lucky fashion.

Either way, if we've found the right answer, does it really matter how we got there?

[wintermute_au]

garr, loathe as i am to defend this puzzle as i agree it's pretty stupid, i should explain why i think it works....

in short, this isn't a suffix/prefix puzzle as we thought originally

its simply that the words and the signs are related -- either because the words fit together as a common phrase, or theres some image that links the two... This actually makes them work slightly better as a puzzle, because if you knew the futures signs and recognised their order, you'd be able to get the links. So each of the words represents a sign, and so it's a sign thats missing, not just some other word (that would be even more stupid, as it could be any associated word)... If we break away from the suffix/prefix idea it's actually much easier to cope with the answer

and though i don't like violet's excuse for not solving it (didn't think of the futures, whats wrong with this girl?!), she does say that they make all sorts of links with old mystical systems...

i also want to clarify what i think the use of this puzzle is, as it seems to bother people that its either too easy or too hard, and thus not good security... I suspect it comes down to violet's note that its there to "reflect on the words of Gyvann" (where only the first line is Gyvann, the words are simply riddle); it's not supposed to be a strong security system, as the Recons are either not worried about security or they have other layers of security before an outsider can even reach this room -- violet only got there escorted, and will only get any information because of Kurt's knowledge of old exploits, certainly not common knowledge that the Recons are likely to worry about! I'm also willing to bet that not many recons actually use the keys -- being a cult they probably discourage contact with the outside world

i realise some of this is pure spec, but figure its worth having here as it goes toward justifying the 'quality' of this puzzle...

And I don't think there's any reason to worry that the cards will be this badly thought out -- they are being made by puzzle-setting masters from the academy after all

[victor7060]

it is only that which is absent which must be sought.


the letters absent from the words supplied are

bijmpquvxz

can they se "sorted"

[Violet]

I think we've exhausted the missing letters idea now

[Leeravitz]

I still think that maintaining Reconstructionist religion, simply because it has a theological basis, is directly connected in some way to astrological portent is a stretch in itself. There are a number of reasons I'd argue this:

1. Simply by analogy - the Christian Church, in our world, for instance, tended to consider astrology heretical, because there is a big theoretical problem about how far belief in astrological portent compromises the granting of Free Will. It's not unproblematic in relation to Islam either. True, there were certain religious systems on earth, particularly the more ancient and polytheistic ones, such as ancient Babylonian, Roman etc. religion, where the astrological portents were held in high regard. But, oddly, inasmuch as the Recons. come over as anything comparable to an Earth religion, I'd say they were fairly monotheistic (worshipping the Cube as the root of all being), and hence might be more likely to be *anti* atsronomy. Admitedly, this is no binding argument, and might even be considered rather too 'high - flown' and doctrinal, but I think it's worth a thought.

2. We seem to have picked up on the fact that Violet mentions somewhere that she's not very capable at working through puzzles related to ancient belief systems. Fine. This implies, perhaps usefully, that the riddle has something of the archaic about it. But then we also know that, for a woman who loves words, Violet is remarkably cavalier about her usage of them. We spent a day on fruitless speculation about whether the Recon's comm. system was literally 'prehistoric', because Violet spoke of it as if it could be. In actual fact, it's about 40 years old, prehistoric in the sense only that the Enigma machine is prehistoric compared to a PC. Therefore, I don't know how far to trust her attitude towards an 'ancient' belief system. What is ancient for her? I strongly believe that the Reconstructionists are *not* an old - established religion. This is because:
a) it seems unlikely they would have been Cube worshippers before the Cube actually came, and that's only 200 years ago but even more importantly b) the Sentinel talks about them as if its readers won't have any idea who the Recons. are and what they stand for - they are much more akin to, say, Heaven's Gate or The People's Temple or something than to the Catholic Church. So, how 'ancient' are their beliefs likely to be anyway?

I realise that this is a slightly false construction, inasmuch as there is no reason why a religious group formed in recent times cannot draw upon a well of exceedingly ancient Scripture - that's precisely what happened in, say, the case of the Branch Davidians, although Heaven's Gate or Aum were genuinely new 'religions'. But I suppose what I'm saying is that assuming the chain of thought that: Recons. are associated with ancient belief, astrology is an ancient belief, ergo. an astrological answer to a Recon. puzzle must be correct, is a bit of a logical short - circuit.

We don't know *what* the Recons. actually believe; we have no idea what the history of astrological development was like in this parallel world; we have no notion of how astrology ties in with Cube worship etc. etc.

This is not meant to be a criticism of the *answer*, as it could well turn out to be correct...but it's just another aspect of why I find it an unsatisfactory and slightly suspect puzzle - it doesn't even seem hugely logical in *context*, let alone as a riddle.

[QBKooky]

Just as a side note, I don't think "Jughead" is that bad of a prefix-suffix combination. It was a popular comic book for ages (although I don't know how many Perplexians read "Archie") and is a fairly common phrase, in my experience, even though it's not in the dictionary.

As for spider-work... I don't know. Yes, it's odd, but perhaps "web" would be much too obvious? Yes, spiderwork is strange, but it's certainly not unheard of; I mean, just google it.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Archer was still the wrong answer and Violet is going to fall into misfortune. [/img]

[Kirjava]

Just for interest's sake, because I like words as well as wasting time trolling for stuff on the Internet, I looked up examples of 'spiderwork' and found a surprising number of uses of the word. Here's just a few:

[Mikeyj]

Well..it is a very nice word. In a similar vein have a look at the Archerfish Toxotes jaculatrix...how do they come up with these preposterous animals?

And the very definition of Jughead.

[Nogwater]

What I like about this puzzle is you have to be in-game to solve it. If you found it in any other situation, it would be meaningless. This ties in nicely with what MC has said about finding the cube. We'll need to be familiar with the game world to find the cube.

[mattlock]

I would just like to point out my effort in solving the puzzle.

[invfish]

I have the biggest feeling that when Violet enters the password it is going to fail. Luckily thought she has mentioned that they will change the riddle in a week or so, so when/if it fails we will have another attempt =) This riddle/puzzle is set up to fail. For all we know there could be one word that is missing from the list that we do not know and only the recons know and when the list changes we will see a word added and another word removed.

[dopefiend]

ok time for some controversy:

I think Archer is the right answer, and I think that the suffix solve is completely right- I know that you could interpret the riddle as meaning that the answer is a suffix to "archer" but you could equally say that it's asking for what is missing from the list of futures rather than the list it gives us.

remember the actual wording doesn't say "My children, it is only that which is absent from the following list which must be sought".

also shouldn't we be happy that those bloody futures we've been poring through for months in search of a puzzle or hidden meaning actually have been useful for something?! hopefully there'll be more of this type of puzzle where our knowledge of Perplex City actually counts for something, rather than ones where you need to be an egyptology scholar to understand them (fun though those ones are!)

having said that I WOULD LOVE IT if violet got nabbed by the recons- this game needs a bit more action after all. And we've kind of forgotten about that random "phantom post" by violet- she never mentioned it again and we still don't really know what she meant by it... could it have been a mistake- somebody skipped a page in the script and put the wrong entry in maybe?

finally, just want to congratulate mattlock on the solve and well done to peter howard for emailing it- i was convinced someone would've already sent it but it shows it pays to spread any spec/ideas around as soon as we have them- we may think they're wrong, but it's always worth a try...

[firefox]

hmm, well i do think its a bit iffy, but if it works it works. as everyones mentioned above it could work, if you looked at it from the- well once you made the futures link the rest is obvious point of view...

to add my noodles to the broth,

who's to say they dont read archie comics? badumchich


edit: archie > archer .. get it get it huh huh?

[misteraitch]

I feel a bit guilty for suggesting the word association route - but I must admit I have to agree with the answer being ARCHER - for the plot line at least - as I also think that Violet is about to be captured.

I wouldn't be suprised if Madame Bianca was a Recon - just you wait and see!!!

[Muffin]

Right, I think everyone is agreed!

Solved it is!