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eating the future by what is done today
Moderators: Giskard, imbri, ndemeter
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Katsurame
Veteran


Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Perpetual Motion
Wishi-san wrote:
Mantis wrote:
I am somewhat insulted by that statement.

How?



When people swear to never play your games again, then start giving other games a second chance, you feel a bit miffed.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:37 pm
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Wishi-san
Unfettered


Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 602
Location: UK. Southwards.
Mantis wrote:
Wishi-san wrote:
How?

When people swear to never play your games again, then start giving other games a second chance, you feel a bit miffed.


Edit: Misread. Maybe they thought your mistakes were unjustified whereas others didn't know what they were doing.
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Given that God is infinite, and that the universe is also infinite... would you like a toasted tea cake?
Wishi-san x Wishi-san x Wishi-san

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:39 pm
Last edited by Wishi-san on Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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skilletaudio
Unfettered


Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 515

 		*edit* Removed. I'm not going to argue about anything in here, I'm asking a question. Can we start fixing a problem, together?

Lots stop being offended and start FIXING things. I've presented a particular concern, can we do something about it, or do we declare the case closed?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:40 pm
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Katsurame
Veteran


Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 113
Location: Perpetual Motion

 		Personally, I think that we should do something about it, but at the moment, the genre is one giant misunderstanding. If you can think of a solution that everyone will agree to, more power to you.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:47 pm
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas
Quote:
First, don't register a second account just to post your trailhead or rabbithole. Duplicate accounts are a no-no and really not worth it anyway, as you'll see when you read my next point.

Next point, once you've posted your initial clue, stop posting about it. I look the other way for trailhead posts, even though they're about as clichéd as a launch can get (along with spamming your trailhead to random members of the community), but I won't look the other way if you keep coming back. That's just bad form and in a way a little insulting to your players. This includes posting under your regular account as if you're playing your own game when you're really just prodding people along. It also includes posting under anonymous unregistered nicks or creating new registered nicks to masquerade as players or in-game characters.


Let's see - theflamingheart has three posts on the board, all about "The Flaming Heart". Why should we (as in Unfiction readers) show him consideration when he showed us none? He blatantly disregarded the board rules. To me that indicates that he does not care about the board. Why does the board need to care about him?

He broke the rules. He did something wrong. If a kid does something wrong, you punish him. If you do not, the kid learns that it is ok to do wrong stuff all the time. If a PM does something wrong, he gets punished (in this case, his game was not played because he broke the board rules), and hopefully learns a little more about the people he's trying to reach before his second attempt.

And Mantis - I'm not sure at all what you mean. Wouldn't you have been miffed at the "never playing your games again" rather than "maybe I'll give you a second chance"? That seems backwards to me.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:49 pm
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Ehsan
Entrenched

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992
Mantis wrote:
So....this is how things work here? Honestly, if you don't have anything constructive to say, get out of the thread.

Tony is right. My game was my mistake, but the way that other games have been treated is downright appalling. People cry for innovation in the genre, yet here you are tearing apart the very games that try that.


You're kidding right?

Nobody is tearing apart anything, we're free to give our opinion and I think 8 out of 10 ARG's I've seen this year SUCK. That's an "opinion". If anyone is offended by opinions they should stay away from the Internet.

As for innovation in "the very games that try that".. well, here's your innovation:

    SUX0RZ has joined #unfiction
    <SUX0RZ> I NEED YOUR HELP!
    <SUX0RZ> CAN YOU DECODE THIS PLZ
    <SUX0RZ> fhk0em.oybtfcbg.pbz
    which is rot 13 for sux0rz.blogspot.com
    Which then asks for help to unveil a government alien time travel conspiracy.
    Which then MIGHT lead to a poorly designed website which insults our intelligence.
    OR hours and hours of chat logs which only 3 people bother to read.


INNOVATION? WHAT INNOVATION

But nobody is even stopping anybody from doing that.. we're MAKING FUN of stupid poopmasters that suck.. AGAIN, if anybody can't take a light hearted insult, log off the Internet now, or go to the disney.com forums.

Does any wannabe PM have something to say about the above? PLEASE don't say it in this thread. PROVE ME WRONG, make a game that DOESN'T suck. Make a game that can grab my attention for more than 5 seconds. THEN you will have my respect. Until then, vulva puppets will rule your wanna poopmaster illegal rabbithole initiating posts.

Read this:
http://cargo.smirkbox.com/

Now focus and understand this:


CARGO wrote:
The Truth

We're tired of all the bitching and whining we hear about the conspiracies against grassroots gaming. Folks, no one has anything against you. If you are going to continue to get so upset over a four-word phrase which becomes more and more relevant as more and more unprepared PMs implode their games without concern for their actions, well... we're then forced to continue to poke fun at you. Some of you (yes, you in particular) need to grow up and realize that this is supposed to be a fun place to be a part of, and that your continual crybaby antics are seriously annoying. There is no CARGO, needless to say, and there should never be. Games are games, so as long as they are quality games, which some games aren't, sadly. Have some fun, and stop bringing us down.



And yes, I did wake up on the wrong side of the bed today, but that has nothing to do with anything :p.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:49 pm
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skilletaudio
Unfettered


Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 515
Mantis wrote:
Personally, I think that we should do something about it, but at the moment, the genre is one giant misunderstanding. If you can think of a solution that everyone will agree to, more power to you.


Im trying to. Im trying to show that we have the power to actually get over misunderstanding and give things the chance to shine. If this is possible, I will believe that we can accomplish anything. Too many people go home when they get their feelings hurt. Lets gut this one out, show that we can do wrong to each other, and still come together.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:51 pm
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Ehsan
Entrenched

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 992

 		I've been here long enough to earn the right to troll....

...in verse!

Code:

There's no   misunderstanding;
    some args suck,
       some args rule.

If your arg sucks,
   people will say
you
           suck.

If your arg rules,
         people will say
you
            rule.

Either way,

                  Life
        goes
on.

And so should you

The                               End



PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:58 pm
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skilletaudio
Unfettered


Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Posts: 515

 		Some ARGs do suck. Thats not the point. THe point is we're being called out on the mat for assuming. Good point, we are chagrined. Lets play it then. Have some faith, I feel that if we can all grow up just a tad, we can see it as it really is. I dont think it will be a farce, I think we have the collective power to not bring these bad feelings over, and let it be what it is.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:03 pm
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jamesi
Sentient Being


Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 2195
Location: Canadia

 		Re: eating the future by what is done today
Nightmare Tony wrote:
If you want a brighter future in what you love, you nurture and support your up and coming growing talent.

(emphasis added was mine) Yes. Yes you do. Talent would be a terrible thing to waste. Talent. Now, how much talent was involved in this:
theflamingheart wrote:
the flaming heart ... free ...

Care to speculate? I don't want to sound spiteful or full of malice, but your basis of arguments of late are in sympathizing with an individual who is now giving up (or so you say) because of a negative reaction to something they did. I'd like to think that a mature, eager-to-impress type of person would instead learn from this experience and work to make their next experience better. I personally don't want a thin-skinned easily-offended PM creating the next game I decide to play, because that might just decrease the amount of mileage the game is able to endure before the PM loses it and yanks their game in an emotionally stressful situation.
mantis wrote:
People cry for innovation in the genre, yet here you are tearing apart the very games that try that.

I'll take credit where credit is due. I openly stated that the launch was, in my opinion, crap. Not innovative -- crap. The majority of the contributors veered the convo off-topic, and while that was probably not the most constructive way to do things, it certainly wasn't in any way, shape or form "tearing apart" the game. I suggest you watch where you point the blame stick, Mantis, because your argument was weak at best.
Nightmare Tony wrote:
A sad day for the ARG world, indeed. For what was now, and what could have been. what wonders of the future we will never experience.

Ack. No future in ARG. I guess we should all quit now. However, I'll wait to see who goes first. There a few people I'd like to see go before me.

As a side note, I'd love to see this Flaming Heart PM pick his sorry self off of the floor and relaunch this game. If it truly is the Next Big Thing, I want to be right there. Incessant whining about the treatment of his/her trailhead isn't helping the problem. If you are such authorities on the world of ARG, Tony and Mantis, then perhaps you could step up to the plate and help that person out? Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:19 pm
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taozero
Veteran


Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 87
Location: Back in Alaska...
Ehsan wrote:
I've been here long enough to earn the right to troll....

...in verse!

Code:

There's no   misunderstanding;
    some args suck,
       some args rule.

If your arg sucks,
   people will say
you
           suck.

If your arg rules,
         people will say
you
            rule.

Either way,

                  Life
        goes
on.

And so should you

The                               End



Beautiful. Just.......beautiful
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Trying to Play: WIBS?

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:27 pm
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Phaedra
Lurker v2.0


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: Here, obviously
Mantis wrote:
Wishi-san wrote:
Mantis wrote:
I am somewhat insulted by that statement.

How?



When people swear to never play your games again, then start giving other games a second chance, you feel a bit miffed.


Rolling Eyes

Wow. Just...wow.

Let's see, you treat the community like your own personal plaything, unload a stinkbomb on us then say it was an experiment, NEVER APOLOGIZE for your behavior, and now you're miffed?

Are we in Bizarro-Land, now?

/me tries to find a way back Through The Looking-Glass.
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World Champion: Cruel 2B Kind

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:29 pm
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strife777
Guest


 		I had a big spiel in the chatrooms the other day on how I felt that even if we didn't like the way a particular launch was handled, we shouldn't bust into a thread and rip it apart because it wasn't totally "innovative". If we felt the need to complain, take it to META, and don't scare potential players away. Almost everyone agreed that this was fair to everyone. Truth is, not every new launch is going to be the next great thing. Some people just want experience, to see how the player base reacts first hand. If its a negative reaction, they learn, and next time they'll do better hopefully. I don't, however, feel its fair to bash a GAIM, or a cliched trailhead post to Unfiction (within the board rules!!), inside the launch thread just because you feel like being the ARG Gestapo. If you don't like how its launched, how its played, etc. its simple, DONT PLAY. Not every movie that comes out will come close to being picture of the year, and honestly sometimes I like watching cliched Kung Fu flicks where people fly around like jello in a tilt-a-whirl. It may not be innovative, but it can still be fun.

On the other hand, the flaming heart thing was dead in the water to begin with, and it didnt deserve a smackdown. You get one trailhead post in Unfiction, thats it. Not multiple posts in the same thread, once and your done. The inital post told us NOTHING. Could've been spam for all we knew (other than the I am the moderator crap). If they followed up with more, they'd of been breaking the rules, and again, would deserve the smackdown. I don't expect them to come up with super innovative launch where we all get Buick LeSabres in the mail...but at least know the rules and regulations of where youre planning your launch at.

And finally, lets please quit the melodrama. If you put your product out to the public, they may love it, they may hate it. Its the risk you take in this world with showing anything to the public. Just because this is a "baby" genre, doesn't mean everyones beyond criticism just cause. Again, I agree the place for complaints isn't in the trailhead thread, but I honestly don't understand why people feel that new PM's should be above any criticism at all.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:42 pm
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addlepated
Unfictologist


Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 1885
Location: Austin, Texas

 		Spare the rod and spoil the puppetmaster!

Sometimes you can learn a lot more from criticism than you can by praise.

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:56 pm
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GuyP
Unfettered


Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 584
Location: London, UK

 		OK, I've been convinced: I'll take my snark away from game threads. I'm sure I'll be able to find somewhere else for it! Smile

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 11:02 pm
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