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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Perplex City » PXC: Puzzles
[PUZZLE?] Maze
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Axys Denyed
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 456
Location: Houston, TX, USA

 		Re: simon?
nynxer wrote:
and one other thing, who is simon? why is he a guest? he seems to know alot. Simon who are you? post again please. Perhaps you are a puppet master wanting us to know the answer?


No, he is not a PM. Adrian Hon knows better than to go against the forum rules

#syzygy wrote:
<brat-sampson> About Simon the poster
<brat-sampson> he's mys stepdad

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:33 pm
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SteveC
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Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 381
BriEnigma wrote:
I am not 100% sure that your program's output is correct. When I first ran across the RLE encoding of the bitmap, there were not those two long lines extending to the edge. I also think that perhaps the X and Y axes are swapped.


Sure, perfectly possible that x and y are swapped. The extensions seem valid though, assuming simon's numbers are correct.

BriEnigma wrote:

Now, if each scanline came from a level in the mazes, we can think of those levels as a Z axis: stack the levels atop one another, look at the cross-sections, and see the symbol. This leads me to wonder if there are perhaps other symbols in the cross-section, too. (I think I already know the answer to this, but I thought I would pose the possibility.)


No chance, unless the original information is incorrect. the x axis doesn't contain any changing data, it's frozen at 80,119 ends of a line. Simon also stated that the rest of the maze is random.

This is the only symbol defined in these parameters, and as it's symmetrical it's a choice of it being as I've put it, on it's side, upside down or on the other side. W, E, M, 3 being the three looky likeys..

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:20 pm
Last edited by SteveC on Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cassandra
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Joined: 25 Mar 2005
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 		and omega! Razz

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:22 pm
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am520dj
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 135
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 		Re: simon?
nynxer wrote:
and one other thing, who is simon? why is he a guest? he seems to know alot. Simon who are you? post again please. Perhaps you are a puppet master wanting us to know the answer?


besides knowing adrian wouldnt do that, he/we didnt get the solve the way we were supposed to. Embarassed I think we were supposed to gather all of our random level answers (7 and beyond), and piece them together. but what has been done is done.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:41 pm
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Enigmaster
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 274
Location: Jersey, CI

 		This is conditional spec, and therefore probably inapropriate in the puzzle thread but.......

If the symbol turns out to be not only a 3, but a reference to and small 'cubed' 3 (³), this could mean we are directly conected to TA. How? Well, we have used the ³ when refering to ourselves - see this thread on what we should be 'called'.

Sooooo, if this rings true, TA was trying to convinces Salk that we were the thiefs! What motive he/she might have for doing this would obviously be guesswork, but perhaps he is a recon, trying to turn the people against the Academy? It could be a whole number of other motives too...

I know, not very logical, and I'm sure some of you will find flaws, but this is just my attempt to make sure we don't mistake some info for something it's not. TA could be anyone; Sente, a work of fiction by Salk or even The Cube itself for all we know - we should remember that not everything we read is 100% true.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:52 pm
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BrianEnigma
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Joined: 05 Oct 2003
Posts: 1199
Location: Pacific Northwest
SteveC wrote:
BriEnigma wrote:
I am not 100% sure that your program's output is correct. When I first ran across the RLE encoding of the bitmap, there were not those two long lines extending to the edge. I also think that perhaps the X and Y axes are swapped.


Sure, perfectly possible that x and y are swapped. The extensions seem valid though, assuming simon's numbers are correct.

I guess that now this is all pretty much "solved," I can release the stuff I discovered a few hours(!) after the initial maze release.

If anyone is interested in less obfuscated, better commented, and annotated code, the source that I have been working from is here:
http://perplexcitycardcatalog.com/notes/maze/tilt-src.zip
The class, variable, and function names are much more understandable in this version.

Checking out the mysterious array of numbers (using this driver program) ended up giving me a giant 3 without any extensions to the edge, using x and y axes that are consistent with my map file decodes:
http://perplexcitycardcatalog.com/notes/maze/3.txt
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:58 pm
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Seej
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Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Enigmaster wrote:
If the symbol turns out to be not only a 3, but a reference to and small 'cubed' 3 (³), this could mean we are directly conected to TA. How? Well, we have used the ³ when refering to ourselves - see this thread on what we should be 'called'.

Well I, for one, am putting all my eggs in the '3' basket (as opposed to an equal distribution between the W/E/M/omega baskets). Yeah, I play it fast and loose.

*ahem* anyway, I thought your spec was quite interesting Enigmaster because it lends credence to the notion that PPC is somewhere in our future. Maybe it's us that wrote the symbols on the ceilings of the catacombs, having been finally driven insane by this game (and shortly before the attendant collapse of our civilisation).

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:23 pm
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Scott
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Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 1140
Location: 390 Chestnut Ridge Rd, Rochester NY, 14624, USA

 		May I summarize?

I've been tidying up the wiki, building off of spugmeitress' work

http://wiki.incognitus.net/ppc/index.php/Pietro_Salk
http://wiki.incognitus.net/ppc/index.php/Pietros_maze
http://wiki.incognitus.net/ppc/index.php/Salk_logs
http://wiki.incognitus.net/ppc/index.php/Salklogs.doc (did the most to this one; gave section headers; added fFormating; included the one section which was previously considered missing)

Here's the trail:

The Logs
* Michiko Clark made a comment on her radio interview
* She reported Salk's death, mentioning old files hidden in the maze.
* This led Brian Enigma to try some of the sentences from the message on the Salk Family website.
* Every sentence of the message, from the one in Maze 1 to the 'time for me to go' leads to a URL containing various pieces of the Salk logs.
* The complete conversation can be read in Salklogs.doc (http://wiki.incognitus.net/ppc/index.php/Salklogs.doc)

The Shape
* Simon gave us coordinates for a closed off shape in some of the later mazes.
* This may have something to do with Pietro talking about the room at the heart of the maze.
* SteveC mapped the entire empty space in every map, and came up with this shape ( http://wiki.incognitus.net/ppc/index.php/Image:Salksymbol.gif ).
* Brian Enigma did a similar task, and got a more familiar shape ( http://perplexcitycardcatalog.com/notes/maze/3.txt ).
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Balance of Powers is a game whose only rule is: There must be a political party.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:15 pm
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cronogenesis
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
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Location: Notts UK

 		have we unlocked the other files yet, we kinda know where they met (see logs) and I can contact adam about the others.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:28 am
Last edited by cronogenesis on Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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cronogenesis
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 201
Location: Notts UK

 		Is it just me or shouldnt we tell sylvia and adam about the logs yet. Look what happened to Pietro, and he didnt mmake anything public. Chances are that THEY are watching them, so their lives are alrealy in danger, if they find these logs then they might not be around any more.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:58 am
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invfish
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Joined: 09 Oct 2003
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Location: Sydney
BriEnigma wrote:
I can release the stuff I discovered a few hours(!) after the initial maze release.

http://perplexcitycardcatalog.com/notes/maze/3.txt


Yes I noticed =) I kinda went snooping through your directories when you posted the first link Embarassed Razz

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:04 am
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SteveC
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Joined: 05 May 2005
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BriEnigma wrote:
Checking out the mysterious array of numbers (using this driver program) ended up giving me a giant 3 without any extensions to the edge, using x and y axes that are consistent with my map file decodes:
http://perplexcitycardcatalog.com/notes/maze/3.txt


OK, just a couple of things here, your picture appears to be the same size as mine, just offset by 50. NOW, the other point is that where you have

36, 38, 67, 87

I have (From simon's post, I've not revere engineer anything Smile )

86, 38, 117, 137 (36, -12, 67, 87 in 50 offset)

Can you check your data to see which is correct?

edit, added some more questions soon after posting

with regards to the orientation, not saying that you are wrong (if I try to contain more than a couple of numbers in my head at the same time I get a headache), but in order to make a "3", wouldn't there need to be three sets of numbers at a few points (the top, middle and bottom arms of the number) From how my brain is currently parsing it (fallable, fallable, fallable), you'd have to be treating the "Z"/time axis as the Y axis.

All that said, of course your suggestion that results in a nice clean "3" makes a hell of a lot more sense. Smile Just doesn't make for a very distinctive symbol!

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:55 am
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noone
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Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 3

 		Regarding the orientation: unpack both maze.jar and controller.jar to the same directory. From there run java tilt.test.MazeViewer. You can view the mazes and almost "see" the 3. The queswtion is was this left in the jar on purpose?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:18 am
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tanner
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 		if its a 3 then all of us who tagged our sigs/nicks with a cubed are members of a dangerous secret society
oooooooh
Very Happy
whats our handshake?
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"And the princess and the prince discuss what's real and what is not,
But it doesn't matter inside the Gates of Eden" - BD

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:57 am
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SteveC
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 		OK, conceded and conceded, it's a 3, I've updated my graphic and application if anyone fancies seeing it drawn for them Smile

Garbage in, garbage out Smile

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:01 am
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