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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Perplex City » PXC: General/Updates
[SPEC] [QUESTION] Tech Talk
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DogsHead
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tanner wrote:
ok -- just a thought -- could these plates have anything to do with the Casimir Effect?

The Casimir Effect (in quantum terms) involves the use of plates to produce an attractive force which if constrained could, in theory, produce a directional force without any energy being expended.

Hmmm, jinks Tanner. I was thinking the same thing - I vaguely remember someone (Penrose? Hawking?) talking about the possible use of the casmir effect to open the mouth ( or hold open) of a wormhole for teleportation purposes... is that ringing any bells, you theoretical Physicists?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:26 pm
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Mosestrotsky
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 		I have to disagree with the whole breaking in twice idea. Not exactly the most practical way of placing a duplicate. It tends to get created first.

I am not saying they were not going to create a duplicate - the thieves could be creating one to give to the folk that hired them and keep the real cube for themselves to sell on to another bidder. Or even to try to confuse those seeking to find it. If you do have two cubes then the only way to find out which is which is to use that which reacts to the Cube.

If this was part of a 3D plotting machine then I feel would be for afterwards.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:20 am
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Macavity
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Mosestrotsky wrote:
I have to disagree with the whole breaking in twice idea. Not exactly the most practical way of placing a duplicate. It tends to get created first.


Granted. But if it were the Reconstructionists who heisted the Cube in the first place, they wouldn't have needed to break into the Academy a second time - they could have given the duplicate to (dun dun DUNNNNN!) . . . .

AIKO ENTRESCORE!

My reasoning:

Fact:
Aiko worked at the Academy (I get the feeling she doesn't work there anymore - see Quirky Acuity, June 29: 'Oh no').

Fact:
Aiko had , until recently, some pretty impressive security clearances (again, see Quirky Acuity, June 29).

Fact:
Aiko has Recon ties.

Therefore:
IF the Recons were responsible for the theft, and IF they had been able to make a replica, THEN the most likely route to use for the return of the replica Cube would be Aiko Entrescore.

Quote:
I am not saying they were not going to create a duplicate - the thieves could be creating one to give to the folk that hired them and keep the real cube for themselves to sell on to another bidder. Or even to try to confuse those seeking to find it. If you do have two cubes then the only way to find out which is which is to use that which reacts to the Cube.


Also a likely plan - but given our knowledge of the Reconstructionists, only likely if those responsible weren't the Reconstructionists.

As it stands, there are many suspects we know of who had the opportunity (the weak security on the night of the Academy ball).

Several of those had the means (high-ranking Academy scholars and scientists).

But only one (so far as we know) has the motive: the Reconstructionists.

Means (Aiko's connection to the Recon movement and her knowledge of the Academy securioty systems), motive (a desire to liberate the Receda Cube from the 'heathen Academy' [sic]), and opportunity (the weakened security around the Cube the night of the Academy ball): it all adds up.

Quote:
If this was part of a 3D plotting machine then I feel would be for afterwards.


Um, might I inquire what this has to do with the case (aside from being a possible use of Klebold plates)?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:49 am
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Mosestrotsky
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 		Right so what you are saying is that - they would create a cube overnight by whatever means ( my mention of a plotting device generally means that the Klebald plates are not the only thing needed to recreate the cube. Hence it is part of another device perhaps ... ionizer other things found in Holyoke's place).

Then in the morning Aiko would waltz right in, obviously hoping that none of the patrols (okay one maybe two people) in the museum, actually noticed the greatest historical find held in there had gone missing that night, and replace the cube. Secondly I believe the only reason she has high clearance is because she is on the cube retrieval team not for anything else (though as an academician she may well have).

Also The Advisor has hinted about the people who hired to get the cube were those of a more secretive society than perhaps the Recons. It was them that paid for the theft as they wanted it. Now this society still may have connections in the Recons and still Aiko may be involved but at the moment she is out of the picture until other eveidence arises.

I like the idea of creating a replica - it's as good as any. It just doesn't make any practical sense the method you have of replacing it. Most would bring a replica with them. Therefore only one break in needed and no need to get anyone else involved apart from the thieves.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:11 am
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erekose
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Quote:
vaguely remember someone (Penrose? Hawking?) talking about the possible use of the casmir effect to open the mouth ( or hold open) of a wormhole for teleportation purposes


I think it was probably Thorne who first said it (he first proved that General relativity permitted traversable wormholes). However prettly much every famous physicist worth his salt has weighed in on this (especially the string theorist Michio Kaku, who's book hyperspace should be required reading for the layman interested in the subject). the casimir effect might be used for keeping a wormhole mouth open, but since the plates have to be close (about 100nm) the wormhole would probably not be traversable (this might be used for inter universe communication or a small nanobot however). It also doesn't explain how they get the energy to open a wormhole in the first place, especially since I don't hear of any particle accelerators the size of earths orbit around the sun in ppc Smile .
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:26 am
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Macavity
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Mosestrotsky wrote:
Right so what you are saying is that - they would create a cube overnight by whatever means ( my mention of a plotting device generally means that the Klebald plates are not the only thing needed to recreate the cube. Hence it is part of another device perhaps ... ionizer other things found in Holyoke's place).


No, not overnight - yes, they'd scan the Cube with the Klebold plates, but it would take time to get the replica made. And while they're making the replica, the Academy's in an uproar, paying attention to the lack of security and investigating the breaches . . . and leaving the duplicators alone.

Quote:

Then in the morning Aiko would waltz right in, obviously hoping that none of the patrols (okay one maybe two people) in the museum, actually noticed the greatest historical find held in there had gone missing that night, and replace the cube. Secondly I believe the only reason she has high clearance is because she is on the cube retrieval team not for anything else (though as an academician she may well have).


Well, some time after all the furor has died down, she'd walk in witht he replica Cube, hide it behind/under/inside some immensely complex piece of scientific equipment, wait a few hours, then go back and conveniently 'find' the replica.

At least, that's my theory. (It's what I'd have done, were I in Entrescore's place.)

Quote:

Also The Advisor has hinted about the people who hired to get the cube were those of a more secretive society than perhaps the Recons. It was them that paid for the theft as they wanted it. Now this society still may have connections in the Recons and still Aiko may be involved but at the moment she is out of the picture until other eveidence arises.


It's likely that this mysterious organization played on the beliefs and desires of the Reconstructionists to incite them to steal the Cube. However, that makes this organization guilty of conspiracy to commit criminal acts, incitement to commit criminal acts, and (had the Cube been given to them) receipt of stolen goods.

It would still have been the Reconstructionists who actually pulled off the dirty deeds, and it would be the Recons who took the greatest hits: commission of criminal acts and commission of murder (most l;ikely second degree, as I doubt they had planned to kill Fran Mendling specifically - just "anyone who got in the way", which Mendling unfortunately did).

Quote:

I like the idea of creating a replica - it's as good as any. It just doesn't make any practical sense the method you have of replacing it. Most would bring a replica with them. Therefore only one break in needed and no need to get anyone else involved apart from the thieves.


Problem is, they needed a replica that would fool the people most familiar with it, namely the Academy staff.

They wouldn't have been able to make such a replica without having the source object for duplication and the equipment to make such a high-accuracy replica (Klebold plates, etc.), and isnce the source object was locked up in the Academy, theoy would have needed to get it out in order to copy it - for one thing, they're less likely to be disturbed by nosty students/staff if they're duplicating it outside of the academy, and for another, if you were working at the Acadmy and you saw someone (or several someones) making a copy of the Cube, wouldn't you be a mite suspicious and report it to the proper authorities?

(Which leads me to another theory for why the Cube vanished the way it did: perhaps it was a copy-protection feature, to put it simply. Anyone who tries to make a copy of the Cube winds up with no Cube, no copy, and a bunch of useless equipment.)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:43 am
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Mosestrotsky
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Quote:
No, not overnight - yes, they'd scan the Cube with the Klebold plates, but it would take time to get the replica made.


That would be a risk as

Quote:

As is well-known, the Cube is a unique object, with certain unusual properties. We have full confidence that, using our knowledge of its composition, we will be able to trace it without difficulty, wherever it may be.


It would be a race against the academy to see of the object could get made before they tracked it.

I can understand to idea in creating a complex object to fool the staff but the fact that it was in the museum meant that study of it was not being done. Therefore it only had to be something that potentially looked like the cube. - As long as you had the right dimensions and colour then it would fool them. Of course there could have been something that checks the cube on a regular basis but I doubt it.

I mean the specs would be stored on computers so anyone that could have hacked or used the virus that infected the Academy to get that information about the cube.

Just a thought - how big do people think the plates are? Could they be faily small and fit into a hand - held device? What was Aiko's 'singing ringing tree' made of? She said Electronic Components but that's it?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:15 pm
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DogsHead
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Erekose wrote:
especially the string theorist Michio Kaku, who's book hyperspace should be required reading for the layman interested in the subject.
Heh, Erekose that's like the forth or fifth time someone has mentioned that book on these forums! I will definitely have to get me a butchers at it, thanks man...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:45 pm
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Scott
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 		I just started a wiki page with Kurt's interactions with people. He's something of a chatty cathy. relatively speaking. So if anyone else gets any other mail fFrom him, either post it on the wiki, or point me at it and I will.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:39 pm
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zaeil
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 		Got another message from Kurt, this time in regards to the Reynolds ionizer:

Kurt McAllister wrote:
Hi Stacy,

I did a little research on Reynolds Ionisers this morning. I didn't get very far. The first - and only - thing I did was to conduct a search of the databases that I can access with my Academy privileges. The results came up totally blank, but my Key's security system detected a military-grade trace; it's only because I use custom security systems that I designed myself that the trace was automatically blocked. All I can conclude is that a Reynolds Ioniser is some sort of classified military item, and that it would be a very good idea to stop poking around in such things.

Kurt


(I hope he isn't mad at me now...)

So, the big question now is...How did a piece of classified military equipment come to be at the Academy anyway, and could such an item be so lightly guarded as to be easily stolen? (And I have to wonder: Was it really even stolen from the Academy in the first place, as the Sentinel said?)

This whole deal with the Five of Cups reeks of being an insider job at the Academy. Both items that we know of are so specialized that it would be difficult for them to go missing without anyone knowing. Whoever got this equipment to Holyoke must work at the Academy and have high-level clearance, maybe even working on whatever projects these instruments relate to.

...Unless the thieves can just teleport in, which I doubt. Confused
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:47 pm
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Scott
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zaeil wrote:
...Unless the thieves can just teleport in, which I doubt. Confused
well, there was that certain incident with the sofa at last year's fFounder's ball....

This is pretty interesting stuff! thanks fFor the updates Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:45 pm
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Macavity
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 		Gee, that letter just screams

CONSPIRACY/GOVERNMENT COVERUP!!!

in large, unfriendly letters.

In light of which I sent the following message, encrypted using the Enigma cipher in all its puzzling glory.

Here for your perusal is the plaintext:

Quote:

DEAR MISTER MCALLISTER STOP
JUDGING BY YOUR LATEST LETTER TO STACY IT APPEARS THAT THE MYSTERY BEHIND THE THEFT RUNS DEEPER THAN WE SUSPECTED STOP
CONSIDERING THE MILITARY TRACE ON YOUR KEY I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IF YOU WERE TO CONTINUE POKING AROUND LOOKING FOR INFORMATION THAT YOU USE A SERIES OF DISPOSABLE KEYS AKIN TO THE DISPOSABLE CELLULAR PHONES THAT ARE SOLD AT EARTH TRUCK STOPS STOP
THESE CELLULAR PHONES ARE OFTEN USED BY VARIOUS POLITICAL ACTIVISM GROUPS TO PROVIDE A RELATIVELY SECURE YET EASILY ACCESSIBLE METHOD OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN ITS MEMBERS DURING PROTESTS CONCERTS AND SIMILAR EVENTS STOP

ALSO JUDGING BY THE MILITARY TRACE IT WOULD SEEM THAT THOSE INVOLVED IN THE THEFT OF THE CUBE HAVE SOME VERY POWERFUL CONNECTIONS STOP
BEING EXMILITARY MYSELF I WAS PART OF THE SECURITY DETAIL ABOARD THE UNSC RECONAISSANCE VESSEL APOCALYPSO I KNOW HOW PARANOID HIGH RANKING MILITARY OFFICIALS CAN BE ESPECIALLY IF THEY OR THOSE UNDER THEIR COMMAND HAVE BEEN IN OLVED IN UNAUTHORIZED ACTIVITIES CRIMINAL OR OTHERWISE STOP
I WILL BE PERFECTLY FRANK WITH YOU KURT STOP
I SMELL A COVERUP STOP

THAT IS ALSO THE REASON WHY I HAVE SELECTED THE ENIGMA CIPHER FOR THIS MESSAGE STOP
AS IT IS AN OLDER CIPHER TECHNIQUE IT IS UNLIKELY THAT MANY OF TODAYS CRYPTANALYISTS WILL BE FAMILIAR WITH IT STOP
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU UTILIZE THE SAME CIPHER IN ANY REPLY YOU MAY SEND STOP
I HAVE BEEN USING THE ENIGMA SIMULATOR MARK FOUR AVAILABLE FROM HTTP COLON SLASH SLASH FRODE DOT HOME DOT CERN DOT CH SLASH FRODE SLASH CRYPTO SLASH SIMULA SLASH DR SLASH ENIGMASIM DOT ZIP STOP
I RECOMMEND IT OVER MOST OTHER ENIGMA SIMULATORS AS IT IS THE MOST ACCURATE ONE I HAVE USED SOFAR STOP
IT CAN SIMULATE BOTH THE EM THREE VERSION USED BY THE GERMAN ARMY AND AIR FORCE AS WELL AS THE EM FOUR VERSION USED BY THE GERMAN NAVY STOP
I HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON STOP


(Note: Some parts of this message have been trimmed away. Also, apologies for the caps and lack of punctuation, but Enigma machines don't support lowercase letters or punctuation.)
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Consider whose fault it could be, with no match or torch in your inventory...
NP: Erase The Truth

PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:51 pm
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