Author
Message
LazarusLong
Unfettered
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 453 Location: 93 miles SW of Ted Kaczynski's cabin
Post-chat Caretaker email - 9/19 Just received the following email from caretaker:
Quote:
My intention last night was to provide you a bit more background information. It seems that intention was subverted a bit.
Having worked in the U.S. Intelligence community for many years, I've seen some pretty strange things. I retired a few years ago with 27 years of service to my country. Compared to my tenure, the old guard had it pretty good. They existed when the world was black and white. Well, let's say red and white. Everyone knew who the bad guys were and our men had the balls and the support to do what needed to be done. But eversince Nixon got busted with his hand in the cookie jar, we've had to deal with more and more crap from Congressional oversight committees, watchdog groups, left wing human rights groups, and the media breathing down our necks. They donít realize democracy continues to work because guys like me slug it out in the trenches and do what has to be done. It isnít always pretty. I swear if I had still been with the company during 9/11, we'd have nailed that Osama bastard by now instead of running around covering our asses. We haven't had such a major, public screwup since Jack decided to play Russian Roulette in '61.
During my service, the majority of my assignments consisted of gathering intelligence from Soviet scientists. Our primary mission was to assess and appropriate their military research, but we also had opportunities to hamper their efforts through various forms of psychological and industrial sabotage. One of my favorite tricks was to infiltrate the black market for high end equipment, supplies and chemicals. Everyone knew the Russkies produced crap. Consequently, Western goods were always in high demand. By infiltrating their black market, I was able to obtain valuable contacts in the research community and exert leverage with key scientists through extortion and blackmail. Once in a blue moon, I would encounter individuals who were so disenfranchised by the Soviet system that I was able to turn them into assets.
Imagine my surprise to wake up one morning recently and discover one of those assets on C-Span testifying before Congress on some budget appropriation bill. I later found out he's working at some research university in Arizona. Now I'm not normally the kind of person to ever forget a face, but this guy was unforgettable. I remembered helping him defect. I remembered him working on some really bizarre physics project. I remembered how willing he was to destroy his life's work when he fled his homeland. But mostly I remember his sadness. He never confided in me, but I sensed a dark secret - something terrible - something he regretted. To find him now in a position of prominence is remarkable.
I only recently discovered the root of his sadness. The human cost of his research was astronomical. To discover that he is continuing his research at New River U. absolutely astounds me. Iím going to try to liberate some additional documents regarding the original project. Youíll know what they are when you see them.
Our specs about caretaker being a spook were well founded. And it appears that Jake's disappearence may have been another "experiment".
_________________"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:23 am
dishboy
Unfettered
Joined: 02 Sep 2003 Posts: 399 Location: Atlanta
2 things:
a. It seems to me that Caretaker left the chat last night feeling like he hadn't done enough to earn our trust (probably because he hadn't ). This email strikes me primarily as a method to do that. Like Sin_Vraal mentioned in #acheron a minute ago, he finally answered the question of why all of this is so important.
b. The person he's talking about could be Zeladzny or Turgenev, but evidence is strongly in Turgenev's favor. Not only because he's a Russian scientist, but because of this statement from the tabas document:
"2. Turgenev should be considered a candidate for immediate defection and given incentive to leave USSR by either threatening exposure or negotiation. "
_________________-- dishboy
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:37 am
LazarusLong
Unfettered
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 453 Location: 93 miles SW of Ted Kaczynski's cabin
dishboy wrote:
The person he's talking about could be Zeladzny or Turgenev, but evidence is strongly in Turgenev's favor. Not only because he's a Russian scientist, but because of this statement from the tabas document:
"2. Turgenev should be considered a candidate for immediate defection and given incentive to leave USSR by either threatening exposure or negotiation. "
And what's to stop the government from giving him a new name, like Zeladzny, and putting him to work here.
We'd never have put a man on the moon if it we hadn't co-opted Werner Van Braun and his group of Nazi scientists after WWII.
_________________"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:07 am
MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?
Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 2716 Location: State of Denial
dishboy wrote:
2 things:
a. It seems to me that Caretaker left the chat last night feeling like he hadn't done enough to earn our trust (probably because he hadn't ). This email strikes me primarily as a method to do that. Like Sin_Vraal mentioned in #acheron a minute ago, he finally answered the question of why all of this is so important.
Hmmm... makes me wonder DB, if he knows all that, why not give us a bit of it the other night. Something is Odd here... and I can't quite put my finger on it, I just know that it feels wrong.
Quote:
b. The person he's talking about could be Zeladzny or Turgenev, but evidence is strongly in Turgenev's favor. Not only because he's a Russian scientist, but because of this statement from the tabas document:
"2. Turgenev should be considered a candidate for immediate defection and given incentive to leave USSR by either threatening exposure or negotiation. "
Looks Like Turgenev may be Zeladzney. As LL pointed out what is to stop them from filing off the numbers and assigning him a new one?
_________________Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:56 am
Caterpillar
Unfictologist
Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 1887 Location: cem's otherbody
Magesteff wrote:
Hmmm... makes me wonder DB, if he knows all that, why not give us a bit of it the other night. Something is Odd here... and I can't quite put my finger on it, I just know that it feels wrong.
The chat was a bit chaotic, maybe this was a more appropriate medium for him to collect and disseminate his thoughts and intentions.
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:43 am
sauceykat
Decorated
Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 251 Location: BC>Canada
cemgate2002 wrote:
Magesteff wrote:
Hmmm... makes me wonder DB, if he knows all that, why not give us a bit of it the other night. Something is Odd here... and I can't quite put my finger on it, I just know that it feels wrong.
The chat was a bit chaotic, maybe this was a more appropriate medium for him to collect and disseminate his thoughts and intentions.
I agree with Cemgate, and also I'm sure a few of us emailed him after the conference...I sure did. I gently hinted to him that I'm shaky about trusting him because he didn't give us much to go on...
Laz, I agree with you on the point that perhaps Zeladzny is Turgenev...it makes sense, if he was a Russian asset to the CIA/NSA and defected to the US he would have had to change his identity, which is why Caretaker was surprised to see him on CSPAN, and makes his comment about "I never forget a face" make more sense if the guy had a different name.
That's my 2cents.
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:42 am
ramiles
Unfettered
Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 362 Location: Chicago
Guys... Something just doesnt add up.
if Turgenev is Zeladzny
That would mean that his death was a fake.
Ivan Turgenev (1818-1883)
he would be way too old...
your theory is there but not quite.
_________________The TRUTH lies beneath the LIES
The Consparicy Theorist
Now Playing: BodyMindChange & Extrasolar XRI
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:33 pm
LazarusLong
Unfettered
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 Posts: 453 Location: 93 miles SW of Ted Kaczynski's cabin
ramiles wrote:
Guys... Something just doesnt add up.
if Turgenev is Zeladzny
That would mean that his death was a fake.
Ivan Turgenev (1818-1883)
he would be way too old...
your theory is there but not quite.
Unless, of course, the spec about time travel is true...
_________________"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:53 pm
MidKnight978
Boot
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Posts: 25
Turnegev LL is right, though I have been thinking a bit on all this and I think I know where we might learn more about the Prof. If someone is willing to toil through all the info that is Back in the 1950's, once WWII was over instead of imprissoning or killing Nazi scientists, they were brought here to America to continue research (hopefully using less drastic measures) as well as bring all the data they collected to the U.S. It was known as Operation: Paperclip. I think perhaps it may have also been done after the fall of communism if anyone wants to check it out.
_________________"We all pay for who we are." - Tim Doyle
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:29 pm
enaxor
I Have No Life
Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 2395
If I remember correctly from the SPECTRUM doc. isn't the name of the Russian scientist Ivar Turgenev, not Ivan Turgenev.
_________________10/05/2007, 04/23/2009, 07/02/2015
The world is a much dimmer place.
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:41 pm
dishboy
Unfettered
Joined: 02 Sep 2003 Posts: 399 Location: Atlanta
enaxor wrote:
If I remember correctly from the SPECTRUM doc. isn't the name of the Russian scientist Ivar Turgenev, not Ivan Turgenev.
I do believe it was transcribed that way, but after looking at that document, I think the supposed "r" in "Ivar" is just a faded-out "n". But I could be wrong....
_________________-- dishboy
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:55 pm
Caterpillar
Unfictologist
Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 1887 Location: cem's otherbody
dishboy wrote:
enaxor wrote:
If I remember correctly from the SPECTRUM doc. isn't the name of the Russian scientist Ivar Turgenev, not Ivan Turgenev.
I do believe it was transcribed that way, but after looking at that document, I think the supposed "r" in "Ivar" is just a faded-out "n". But I could be wrong....
I transcribed it, and it was IMO an "R". I could be wrong...but I checked prior to transcribing it as an "R" and I didn't see any other broken or faded "N"s. It looked like a typewriter was used and usually if there is a problem with a letter it is consistent, or at the very least duplicated in a document of that size. (I may have missed something though...so feel free to correct my assumption )
Possibly they changed it to Ivar for game-purposes?
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:10 pm
dashcat
Entrenched
Joined: 09 Dec 2002 Posts: 816 Location: Under the bed
I looked at the document again with my trusty magnifying glass and it looks like an 'r' to me. It doesn't appear to be faded or broken in any way. I think it's an 'r'.
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:15 pm
mysteryjones
Veteran
Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 89 Location: London
Turgenev vs Zeladzney Alright, so I know its a long shot to pull this stunt - but it just seems too obvious not to mention. If it's the 'face' he could never forget, then we might as well compare photographs... Here's some mugshots to compare.
As a side note, in my search for Zeladzney's photo, I stumbled across this page , which is a blank Press Release with the title "New School Year Begins Still No Sign of Missing Student". Can't remember if it's new, but it certainly caught my attention.
Description
Turgenev Image 2
Filesize
13.39KB
Viewed
113 Time(s)
Description
Turgenev Photo 1
Filesize
12.86KB
Viewed
121 Time(s)
Description
Zeladzney Photo
Filesize
42.4KB
Viewed
128 Time(s)
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:19 pm
enaxor
I Have No Life
Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 2395
I croped the name out of the document and reversed the image. It looks like an "r" to me, but you can check the attachment and decide for yourself.
Description
Filesize
17.19KB
Viewed
127 Time(s)
_________________10/05/2007, 04/23/2009, 07/02/2015
The world is a much dimmer place.
Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:33 pm
Display posts from previous: All Posts 1 Day 1 Week 2 Weeks 1 Month 3 Months 6 Months 1 Year Sort by: Post Time Post Subject Author Ascending Descending