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terminalskeptik
Unfettered
Joined: 05 Jun 2003 Posts: 351 Location: Onboard the Groovy Purple Derigible
Meltdown, aka Death before Birth I thought it appropriate to start a discussion on opinions on why there have been so many preemptive meltdowns lately. So many ARGs have died before they really came to birth. Why do you think that is? PM's losing interest? Poor planning? Not enough players to justify continuation? What are your thoughts?
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:18 pm
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 3651 Location: Is not Chicago
It's quite possible we're seeing an improvement in the situation, actually.
I know for a fact that several projects never even got close to launching, shortly after the Beast, and after Metacortechs. There were a few peeps that asked puppetmasters with a game or two under their belts to 'sit in' on dev boards and such, but there were a good number of these that simply dissolved in the initial workload.
Now , we're seeing games actually get through dev, and launch, and maybe even a few weeks of good, hard playing, and then they fall apart.
As frustrating as it's been for the more focused members of this forum to witness and experience this phenomenon, I tend to view these implosions as a mixture of disappointing and intensely hopeful, with an emphasis on the latter.
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:09 pm
terminalskeptik
Unfettered
Joined: 05 Jun 2003 Posts: 351 Location: Onboard the Groovy Purple Derigible
krystyn wrote:
I tend to view these implosions as a mixture of disappointing and intensely hopeful, with an emphasis on the latter.
Hopeful in the sense that maybe each new grassroots effort will get closer and closer to a full term game? I think you have a good point there. If everyone learns from others mistakes, we all progress.
As long as when a game melts down, the PMs post what they had of their full script/storyline so we can see how it ends proper, I am OK. Otherwise it is like getting half hour into a movie and the power going out...and never coming back on!
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:45 pm
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 3651 Location: Is not Chicago
It's a nice wish, but sometimes the puppetmasters don't really -know- exactly how everything would've played out, you know?
There's been a lot of meta talk about this ride "being on rails" and such, but there's still an almost inevitable organic flow that means that even if you knew how it was 'supposed' to end, it may still leave you feeling empty or unfulfilled, you know?
Plus, some games implode when writers walk away, or story dev crashes to a halt for other reasons. It may not be -possible- to resurrect those missing pieces for the audience.
_________________
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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:24 pm
MageSteff
Pretty talky there aintcha, Talky?
Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 2716 Location: State of Denial
Re: Meltdown, aka Death before Birth
terminalskeptik wrote:
I thought it appropriate to start a discussion on opinions on why there have been so many preemptive meltdowns lately. So many ARGs have died before they really came to birth. Why do you think that is? PM's losing interest? Poor planning? Not enough players to justify continuation? What are your thoughts?
Meltdowns can happen for a lot of reasons...
1. The story expands to the point that the PM's no longer are able to keep the internal connections consistent. It can happen to the nicest people, no shame in it as the PM's were just brainstorming ideas and hadn't learned to go back and trim what no longer fit. Why? Because ideas are like children, and as parents we want to see all our children succeed.
2. Too many cooks/ Not enough cooks. You need to find a balance between the two extremes. Some things only need a few people involved in the planning and others need many people involved.
3. Attrition. Planning out stories/puzzles/websites/items takes time. In grassroots productions we are talking about people working on the game after they get home from work/school/after the children go to sleep. Things like illness, accident, family concerns, acts of nature, can all wittle down the original team until there are too few left to run what was initially proposed and rather than do a less than stellar job, the remaining team sets it aside. (Example, Florida and the Gulf states have had an unusual number of large, damaging hurricanes the last few years - worry about where you will live while your home is repaired/rebuilt trumps producing a fun little game - not to mention other issues associated with a disaster).
4. Not enough players? Um... OK this can have two sources -
a) no real advertising - including word of mouth. This comes back to planning.
b) Is there another reason why players are not flocking to your game (i.e. another mega game is running or so many other games running that yours gets lost in the shuffle)
5. Technological breakdown - depending on the nature and extent of the damage, it could kill a budding game.
6. Poor planning. It happens. Suck it up and move on.
_________________Magesteff
A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:09 am
Nightmare Tony
Entrenched
Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 824 Location: Meadowbrook
World events. Some exterior factor can make a game entirely obsolete or inappropriate for its time.
_________________For this is the place where dreams and nightmares are birthed and bred
Nightmare Park
Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:10 pm
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 3651 Location: Is not Chicago
After September 11, 2001, dev sort of ground to a halt for Lockjaw, as a major portion of our plot revolved around a bunch of urban explorers finding dead bodies in D.C. subway tunnels. Also, it was hard to work on a game what with all the weirdness in everyone's lives all of the sudden.
Heh. We weren't sure how to address it, as we didn't want to encourage people to go vadding about in the red alert climate that had suddenly sprung up, but ultimately, we managed a timeline and a reasonable sense of "hi, this is fiction" that kept us on more solid ground.
At least, I hope we achieved that!
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Alternate Currency
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:21 am
Dorkmaster
Unfictologist
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 1328 Location: The People's Republic of Dork
Wait a second... Krystyn... You exist in real life? I totally bought the fiction thing. Whoa.
_________________"The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet." -William Gibson
"Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it." - PJ O'Rourke
"ACADEMY, n. A modern school where football is taught." - Ambrose Bierce
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:52 am
buff (not logged)
Guest
Somehow, I remember "The 7 Ps".
P roper P lanning P revents P issP oor P erformance.
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:09 am
Phaedra
Lurker v2.0
Joined: 21 Sep 2004 Posts: 4033 Location: Here, obviously
krystyn wrote:
vadding about
New word!!!
Thank you.
What does it mean? When I google it I get all kinds of stuff, much of it incomprehensible or having to do with locksmithing.
_________________Voted Most Likely to Thread-Jack and Most Patient Explainer in the ILoveBees Awards.
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:21 am
Gupfee
Site Admin
Joined: 22 Sep 2002 Posts: 817 Location: Massachusetts
Phaedra wrote:
krystyn wrote:
vadding about
New word!!!
Thank you.
What does it mean? When I google it I get all kinds of stuff, much of it incomprehensible or having to do with locksmithing.
It means:
playing Euchre
hitting on cute girls named Barbie
exploring subway tunnels
running away from exploding grandmas
living happily ever after on the run with your girl and a laptop
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:04 pm
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 3651 Location: Is not Chicago
Gupfee, you forgot:
eating apples
Especially that delicious apple pie at the diner, that uses home-grown Idunas.
_________________
Alternate Currency
Stories and dreams, crossing my palm like silver.
xbl gamertag: krystyn
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:24 pm
Wolf
Decorated
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 292
Wikipedia's take on vadding is pretty good, but Gup and krystyn's works, too
_________________You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:32 pm
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 3651 Location: Is not Chicago
Dorkmaster wrote:
Wait a second... Krystyn... You exist in real life? I totally bought the fiction thing. Whoa.
I am totally too pretty to be for real!
/me twirls hair.
DM, it sucks that we live so close and have never met. What's UP with that?
_________________
Alternate Currency
Stories and dreams, crossing my palm like silver.
xbl gamertag: krystyn
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:52 pm
Dorkmaster
Unfictologist
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 1328 Location: The People's Republic of Dork
Krystyn, it probably has to do with my time-consuming plans to take over the world. That, and the fact that my underground lair is well-hidden to most peeps.
But seriously, I cannot wait for ARGfestoconoramariffic Chicago. We'll totally meet up then, if not earlier! I gotta meet so many of us people living in the near-chicago area (WI, Chicago and Indiana folk...)
_________________"The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet." -William Gibson
"Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it." - PJ O'Rourke
"ACADEMY, n. A modern school where football is taught." - Ambrose Bierce
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:04 pm
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