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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Last Call Poker » LCP: General/Updates
[SPEC] Playing Card History, Mythology, and Symbolism
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Phaedra
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 		[SPEC] Playing Card History, Mythology, and Symbolism
Since cards seem to be somewhat important in this ARG (and also since The Dealer mentions what sound like archetypes -- from a Western movie), I thought perhaps we should have a place to discuss playing cards themselves and, hopefully, how they fit into the stories/relate to the characters.

SUITS

DIAMONDS -- In French, carreau. The suit represented merchants and tradesment. The symbol may have originally represented a paving-tile; there is also an obvious connection between diamonds and money. In fortune-telling, diamonds represent worldliness, sex, intrigue, and business. Bartle test correspondence = achievers (they are always seeking treasure). Relates to Tarot Suit of Pentacles -- money. Supposedly represents Julius Caesar.

SPADES -- Originally a sword, or pique in French, espada in Spanish. The suit represented the nobility. In fortune-telling, spades is the suit of darkness, despair or death. Bartle test correspondence = explorers (they dig around for information). Relates to Tarot suit of Swords -- struggle and animosity. Also supposedly represents King David.

HEARTS -- In French, coeur. The suit represented the clergy. Supposedly represented courage and virtue, which were supposed to be characteristics of the clergy. In Italian decks, the heart was originally a cup or chalice -- a more obvious symbol of the clergy. In fortune-telling, hearts symbolize happiness, friendship, or love. Bartle test correspondence = socializers (they empathize with others). Relates to Tarot suit of Cups -- love and happiness. Supposedly represents Charlemagne.

CLUBS -- In French, trefle. The suit represented the peasantry. The origin of the symbol appears to be disputed: it may have represented a cudgel or walking-stick (the peasantry was forbidden to own swords), or it may represent a clover, evoking agriculture. In fortune-telling, clubs represent labor, cleverness, the community and family, generosity or debt. Bartle test correspondence = killers (they are intensely competitive). Relates to Tarot suit of Wands -- enterprise and distinction. Supposedly represents Alexander the Great.

SPECIFIC CARDS/HANDS IN FOLKLORE

ACE OF SPADES -- often thought to represent death.

(help me out, here, people, and I'll update this)

DEAD MAN'S HAND -- Two pair: black aces and black eights. The kicker has been suggested to be the following: five of diamonds, nine of diamonds, queen of clubs, king of spades.

CARD MEANINGS IN DIVINATION Not sure of the reliability of my various sources. If anyone who actually *does* card divination wants to help out, it'd be appreciated.

RELATIONSHIP TO STORY Different characters in the story have been labelled "cards." Do we think this means there will be 52 card-characters in all? Do they relate to various cards in the deck and their meanings/symbolism? Should we be looking into Tarot?

I'll update this top post as people suggest things, just to have the info/most recent card-related SPEC in one place. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:57 pm
Last edited by Phaedra on Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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urthstripe
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 		I thought the Dead Man's hand was Full House Aces over Eights? Hmm.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:44 pm
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SpaceBass
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urthstripe wrote:
I thought the Dead Man's hand was Full House Aces over Eights? Hmm.

Rec.gambling.poker seems to agree with the above.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:53 pm
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Dr_Pangloss
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 		I do tarot divination, but I doubt that this game would be that deep. I think this is about good old card sharking.

Any card lore might help.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:15 pm
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Phaedra
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Dr_Pangloss wrote:
I do tarot divination, but I doubt that this game would be that deep. I think this is about good old card sharking.

Any card lore might help.


Don't underestimate the PMs. Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:17 pm
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CombatEagle
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 		Any info on what the Red Spade on the chip for LCP may represent, or is this just a typical habit of casinos?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:27 pm
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krystyn
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Phaedra wrote:
Dr_Pangloss wrote:
I do tarot divination, but I doubt that this game would be that deep. I think this is about good old card sharking.

Any card lore might help.


Don't underestimate the PMs. Wink

Conversely, don't over-anticipate, either. Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:31 pm
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TremereBear
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 		Re: [SPEC] Playing Card History, Mythology, and Symbolism
Phaedra wrote:
CARD MEANINGS IN DIVINATION Not sure of the reliability of my various sources. If anyone who actually *does* card divination wants to help out, it'd be appreciated.


I have a book of cartomancy that either Ursos or myself can look stuff up in. Let me know specifics if you like, and I can post them.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:40 pm
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krystyn
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 		That does remind me: I have a deck of Gypsy Witch Cards, which use the 52-card standard deck.

The female being read is represented in the layout by the 2 of Hearts. The male, the 2 of Diamonds. Each card has an accompanying symbol, and the cards are numbered sequentially, as well (as in, the 2 of Hearts is No. 18, and the 2 of Diamonds is No. 19).
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:44 pm
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urthstripe
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SpaceBass wrote:
urthstripe wrote:
I thought the Dead Man's hand was Full House Aces over Eights? Hmm.

Rec.gambling.poker seems to agree with the above.


Ah, forgive me, I need to brush up on my poker mythology.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:06 pm
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sequoya
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 		This isn't mythology as such, but it's sort of related to the cards and whatnot.

I was pondering about what all the suit symbols above our heads meant, and then I remembered the Bartle test which is normally used in MMORPGs to determine what kind of a player someone is. It categorises players into 'suit' types with different personalities.

From here:

Quote:
So, labelling the four player types abstracted, we get: achievers, explorers, socialisers and killers. An easy way to remember these is to consider suits in a conventional pack of cards: achievers are Diamonds (they're always seeking treasure); explorers are Spades (they dig around for information); socialisers are Hearts (they empathise with other players); killers are Clubs (they hit people with them).


The reason it sort of vaguely fits is that the people who have found cards have a spade - they dig out information. And most of the rest of us have diamonds because all we do is play poker Wink Not sure about the clubs.. how do you player-kill in Poker? .. and I haven't seen anyone with a heart, but perhaps if you reach a stupidly high amount of buddies, you get one.. or something. Anyway, it's all total spec, but I thought I would share Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:15 pm
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Dr_Pangloss
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 		Ok...here's the info for what it's worth...and I'll try to keep it simple.

Modern playing cards are based on ancient Tarot divination cards (Cabala). The suit and number correspond to the following:

MINOR ARCANA -

CLUBS = Wands. Enterprise and distinction.

HEARTS = Cups. Love and happiness.

SPADES = Swords. Struggle and animosity.

DIAMONDS = Pentacles. Money.

The cards are then divided into numbers, and for each suit the number influences the energy surrounding the suit.

1 - The beginning...Father...Individuality.

2 - Form...Unexpressed crativity...Cooperation.

3 - Seed...Birth...Self expression.

4 - Foundation...Solid...Discipline.

5 - Uncertainty...Activity...Freedom.

6 - Equalibrium...Stability...Harmony.

7 - Soul Development...Completion of circle...Wisdom.

8 - Earthly progress...Judgement...Executive power and ability.

9 - Attainment of Man...Experience...Completion.

Jack (Knight or Prince) - Youth...Opposition between King and Queen...Struggle/conflict.

Queen - Woman...Nassive...Emotion.

King - Man...Active...Creative.

_____

If you guys think there's something to this, I'll do the Major Arcana (Fool - World). I hesitate only because I'm afraid it will serve to confuse even more.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:16 pm
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colin
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 		These famous kings of history are represented in a deck of cards: King David (Spade), Charlemagne (Hearts), Julius Ceaser (Diamond), Alexander the Great (Clubs)

source

edit: of course wikipedia has some history as well

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:42 pm
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Sariel
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sequoya wrote:
The reason it sort of vaguely fits is that the people who have found cards have a spade - they dig out information. And most of the rest of us have diamonds because all we do is play poker Wink Not sure about the clubs.. how do you player-kill in Poker? .. and I haven't seen anyone with a heart, but perhaps if you reach a stupidly high amount of buddies, you get one.. or something. Anyway, it's all total spec, but I thought I would share Smile


Ooh. I hadn't noticed the changing suits, but that makes sense; the people I've recognized with clubs (myself included) either just signed up (yesterday or the day before), or don't seem to have played any of the games very seriously yet.

Maybe they're using club to mean "newbie", spade to mean "ARG investigator" ("done enough investigation to find cards"), diamond to mean "poker player"?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:30 pm
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Varin
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 		I've got a diamond and all I've done is play a few practice games. Hrm.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:37 pm
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