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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Last Call Poker » LCP: General/Updates
[SPEC] - The gun, the characters, the whole overall story
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CoffeeJedi
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j5 wrote:
6. Don't discount some form of mysticism tied to the gun. We are playing poker with dead folks after all.

yeah, i'm still thinking that the gun is cursed somehow, allowing it allow the dead to return to this world through it.

Lucy's possession of it could have given her the praternatural luck that she exhibited before meeting Pikar at the table (maybe it was around that same time that she put it into storage)

rose wrote:
5. Hidden stuff- Maybe. That would be a new one. Very Happy

perhaps something hidden in it is what gives it that power, see Trigun, Briscoe County Jr., et al.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:07 pm
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yanka
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rose wrote:
Quote:
Could somebody please give a hard link to wherever it is that Lucky says that Maurice was the last person to kill with it?


Go to the trail archive for week one and mouseover the last tombstone on the trail- bottom right.

Thank you, rose!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:29 pm
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Silverkun
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CoffeeJedi wrote:
j5 wrote:
6. Don't discount some form of mysticism tied to the gun. We are playing poker with dead folks after all.

yeah, i'm still thinking that the gun is cursed somehow, allowing it allow the dead to return to this world through it.


Well, if that were the case, we'd have a neo-nazi at the tables or on a character card profile, yes?

CoffeeJedi wrote:
rose wrote:
5. Hidden stuff- Maybe. That would be a new one. Very Happy

perhaps something hidden in it is what gives it that power, see Trigun, Briscoe County Jr., et al.


Or Appleseed, if you wanna get all stuff-hidden-in-the-grippy.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:39 pm
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Phaedra
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KermieD wrote:
That being said, Nazi hunting was a semi-sanctioned occurrence for the Mossad. Maurice may have had a bit of a Mossad career after his war days, which could have led into the arms dealing either independently or as a semi-retired agent.


Um. Not this kind of Nazi-hunting. There are plenty of arguments to be made about Mossad's actions, especially with respect to kidnapping Eichmann from Argentina so he could be taken to Israel and tried, but I think most reasonable people can agree that there is a significant ethical difference between forcing a war criminal to go to trial, and deciding, on one's own, who should die and carrying it out without trial, a chance at defense, or any sort of approval from an official governing body.

The term "Nazi hunter," used in reference to Mossad agents or private individuals to whom the term is applied, refers to someone who tracks down and gathers information on Nazi war criminals so that they can be brought to trial, not someone who covertly kills them.

What Maurice was doing was quite different.

KermieD wrote:
While you or I may not take offense at making Judaism a central plot point in a story about criminal dealings, I'm not sure everyone would take the same laid-back approach in this day of "hey, you cant portray us like that" from every socioethnic (is that a word?) group in existence.


Well, first, I don't think it is a "central plot point." It just seems to be relevant backstory for two characters in one of a number of plots. My whole point in starting the discussion was just to back up my SPEC that Simon's going to meet his Maker in the not-too-distant future, or at least play some poker. That said...

Kermie, believe me, if I thought this were a slam on Jews or Judaism, I'd be up in arms about it.

But so far all I've seen is a diverse cast of characters, none of whom seem to lead particularly pure or innocent lives. Unfortunately, people of all religions, races, ages, national origins, sexual orientations, and so on commit crimes, Jews included, alas.

In this case, I'd say that Simon and Maurice are two of the less unsavory characters we've seen: pious, polite, dealing with their enemies "without rancor," and sharing what appears to be a genuine and warm friendship. I may strongly believe that what they're doing is wrong, but that doesn't make me unsympathetic to them. I'm completely sympathetic to the desire to bring Nazis to justice; I just differ, strongly, on what constitutes "justice."

In other words, I don't think this is an objectionable portrayal of Jewish characters. There are, unfortunately, some Jews who do bad things. But we're also seeing Hispanics doing bad things, Germans doing bad things, Asians doing bad things -- the criminal enterprises appear to be equal-opportunity. Wink The fact that Maurice and Simon are Jewish isn't irrelevant to what they've chosen to do, but it's not what makes them criminal, as it is in the case of, say, Shylock or some other antisemitic portrayal of a Jewish character.

I think it's okay. Smile

KermieD wrote:
I do think Simon's safe for now. Call it a hunch if you will, but I think the fact that he signed the bail bond for Lucy will be expanded a bit before Simon joins Maurice at the poker tables. Also, Maurice seemed to think Simon would be okay at the tourney.


Yup, that just might blow a hole in my theory. Oh well, we'll see next week.

In unrelated news, I'm intrigued by the idea that the Gun was the source of Lucy's luck.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:27 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:07 pm
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KermieD
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:47 pm
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Abraxas
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Phaedra wrote:

Yup, that just might blow a whole in my theory.

Good to know that native speakers get it wrong. Razz
Every 1.5 times I write "whole" instead of "hole", it's annoying...
But never the other way around. Hm...

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:32 pm
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Phaedra
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Abraxas wrote:
Phaedra wrote:

Yup, that just might blow a whole in my theory.

Good to know that native speakers get it wrong. Razz
Every 1.5 times I write "whole" instead of "hole", it's annoying...
But never the other way around. Hm...


Bleh, typos. Thanks for pointing it out.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:55 am
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yanka
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 		Re: [SPEC] - The gun, the characters, the whole overall stor
rose wrote:
Spider adds a new element. How did she know where Lucy was? Was Lucy put in the cell with Shaylee purposefully? Anyway, it seems that the cops (and probably the Buyer) have spread the "word on the street" to everyone to try to find the gun. And that Lucy was the last person known to have it.

Wild random speculation regarding how Spider found out about the Gun: what if Robert, who was so fond of Sunset hookers, accidentally and in the heat of passion told something to someone like Shaylee? Well, maybe not in the heat of passion, but somehow the conversation revolved around guns -> Robert mentioned his Dad has an antique Navy Colt -> the prostitute happened to mention it to Vaquero or Spider -> and that's how they're now after the gun?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:05 am
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RPGgame
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 		I agree with the spec on the death of simon. Looks like I got beat to the idea of it since my rabbi this morning asked me how shimon and the spider was doing. I was caught off guard and forgot what he was talking about. After realizing I figured it out and told him about Maurice. He was wondering the same thing about what he was doing out of shul. He mentioned well if they kill off maurice then they might as well kill off shimon on yom kippur. I didn't want to correct the rabbi that it was actually Simon.

Anyway he mentioned something interesting. We might need to speak to Maurice and convince him to save Simon by having him help with repentance for those sins that need to be rectified for. I am not sure what happened over shabbos but I am catching up. But it just might be an angle that we want to go for.

Nice job explaing the high holy days btw, i couldn't do any better.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:36 pm
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Phaedra
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RPGgame wrote:
my rabbi this morning asked me how shimon and the spider was doing. I was caught off guard and forgot what he was talking about. After realizing I figured it out and told him about Maurice.


Is this the same rabbi who recently dismissed the whole thing as a "waste of time"?

Heheh. Very Happy

RPGgame wrote:
He was wondering the same thing about what he was doing out of shul.


Well:

Quote:
Rosh Hashanah. After dark, but he knew Simon would disapprove if he knew Maurice was working. It was hard to change the habits of a lifetime.


Sometimes, apparently, his business instincts win out over his piety.

RPGgame wrote:
Anyway he mentioned something interesting. We might need to speak to Maurice and convince him to save Simon by having him help with repentance for those sins that need to be rectified for.


It's an idea. However:

1) We don't know what Simon has actually done; we know Maurice has killed people, but so far, we've only seen Simon act as Maurice's bodyguard, and mess up someone's home looking for the Gun. I'm not saying that being an accessory isn't a crime, but we don't necessarily know how bad Simon actually is.

2) Narrative symmetry aside, I'm not sure that -- if Simon's in danger (and his recent encounter with Lucy, taken with Maurice's comment that he'll be all right, seem to suggest that my prediction was wrong) -- repentence will help him any. I can talk about themes and foreshadowing 'til I'm blue in the face, but the fact remains that Maurice's death was by human agency, not divine, and I don't think people like Kerry really care if you're sorry or not. Smile

RPGgame wrote:
Nice job explaing the high holy days btw, i couldn't do any better.


Oh, thanks. Embarassed
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:58 pm
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rose
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 		Continuing: the gun and the whole story
Now we know more. Some more spec.

1. The Colt (may have) belonged to JEB Stuart at some point. Though I am from New York, my family is from the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia, so I am very familiary with this famous civil war general. I think a gun of his would be valuable to collectors. We still don't know who Maurice shot with it, or which of our living characters know the gun's history.

The dead characters seem to know all. Victor knew Kerry Tucker's name, even though they had never met.

2. Kerry Tucker is working for McPherson. Who is behind McPherson, controlling the assignments of police, is unknown. McPherson became interested in Maurice because Maurice was interested in the Colt. Kerry may have killed Kink. But I don't think that Kerry was involved with or knows about the Colt yet.

McPherson is in a perfect spot to cover up and protect Kerry. I did think these broad daylight shootings were so risky that Kerry would only do it if he just didn't care, or worry about, gettting caught.

Prediction: Kerry, smart and a stone cold killer, will die trying to do something honorable... a la Darth Vader.

But, that would be pretty obvious, so who knows? Maybe Kerry dies earlier...not sure who would kill him. No way that Kerry gets out of this alive...just my spec.

3. I dont think McPherson is the Buyer. I still think there is another unknown person. Why the person wanted Robert killed ( because they had met?) and Lucy -- not killed-- and the gun taken with her is not known.

4. I think Lucy was put into the cell with Shaylee on purpose by the cops. Whoever is after the gun arranged it. From Shaylee to Spider to Lucy is an obvious connections.

(more later. about the gangs and the cops.)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm
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RPGgame
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Phaedra wrote:

Is this the same rabbi who recently dismissed the whole thing as a "waste of time"?


yep, he was fascinated that this might be a way to get more jews to pay attention to the holidays. Wink

RPGgame wrote:
Nice job explaing the high holy days btw, i couldn't do any better.


Oh, thanks. Embarassed[/quote]

no prob

Anyway im gonna still keep an eye out for the Jewish side of Last Call. Cool

PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:13 pm
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konamouse
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 		Benito Rojas, the FBI guy. Too quiet.
Govt conspiracy to get the gun back to the Smithsonian????

Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:36 am
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rose
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 		more nattering
This story is fragmented.

A summary of what I think is happening:

The Buyer is after the Colt. The Buyer is not McPherson, but McPherson know about the Colt. The Buyer killed Kink (and nothing was said about a canoe;: - so probably not Kerry.)

McPherson has Kerry kill Victor because of something in Victor's saftey deposit box probably relating to the Colt. McPherson has Kerry kill Maurice because he is asking about the Colt.

Either McPherson, Kim or the Buyer directly hire Vaquero to help get the Colt from Lucy. Lucy was set up in jail to meet Shaylee. Vaquero sent Spider to beat up Lucy and find the Colt.

One of these people will trace the Colt to Clay eventually...

The gang story is less compelling to me. I am still trying to see how the gang story will intersect with the Colt story. This is one idea:

McPherson seems to also be in the employ of Mi Casa. But he could be using Kerry to kill people in both gangs.

Rojas will find out that Matt Viet is hiding with Tony and find him there. Nakagawa already knows about the switching of the tape and knows that Tony has a hacker working with him. Matt can ID Kerry as Sam's killer. Kerry has been seen with McPherson. Rojas will unwind the story of Kerry and McPherson which will lead back to the Colt.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:48 am
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