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 Forum index » Diversions » Perplex City Puzzle Cards » PXC: Silver Puzzle Cards
[PUZZLE] #251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour
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lauriek
Boot

Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 68
Location: Kent, UK

 		I found this snippet in the google cache -

Quote:
The main project currently being run by distributed.net is the RC5-72 challenge, where a small text file has been encrypted with a 72-bit key. They're using the "brute-force" method to crack the code, which means assaulting the encrypted file with every single key mathematically possible to "unlock" the encryption. RC5-72 is also known as RC5-32/12/9 (RC5 with 32-bit wordsize, 12 rounds, and 9*8=72-bit key), but don't let that confuse you, because it's not important.


So we /could/ be looking at 64bit words, 12 rounds and 18*8=144 bit key. Whatever the hell that means! Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:00 am
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lillyplop
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Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 52

 		I have had a look on the RSA webiste and it says:

'In addition to the "real" contests, thirteen "pseudo-contests" will be posted. '

These are listed as Secret-Key Challenge Links. Under this link is has 64-bit RC5 Challengers. I know very little about computer codes but number wise it seems too much of a coincidence especially when you factor in the cow icons, the '13' contests and the 64/12/8 on the top of the card.

I also found a page that said a 64 bit challenge had been solved and the answer was:

'The unknown message is: Some things are better left unread'

I have tried this in the solve page but alas I failed dismally. MInd you I did forget to type in the apostrophe at the end. Dont know if this will help or hinder but I know I am having fun with this one.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:15 pm
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rkn_technician
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 		[PUZZLE] #251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour
This is probably really stupid, but I thought I'd throw this idea into the mix:

Quote:
Could it just be base sixteen with numbers running Quote:
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F


What if it is pure hexadecimal to be translated into decimal, and these numbers then used with a book code, starting at (guess!) page 64 line 12 word 8 of the key text, and taking the first (or second, or last???) letter of each word.

Key text could be book mentioned in:
Quote:
Looking at the distributed.net site they have a section of reviewed books
http://www.distributed.net/research/recommended-reading.php.
The books are rated in cows and only one has a five cow rating like the bottom of the card, the book is Cracking Des : Secrets of Encryption Research, Wiretap Politics & Chip Design
or else something to do with labours of Hercules, maybe a book I found listed on Amazon: "The thirteenth labour of Hercules: Stories" by Fazil Iskander, Robert Daglish (Translator), K.M. Cook-Horujy (Translator) in either original or translated version?
Does this make any sense?!!! Confused

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:48 pm
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rkn_technician
Kilroy


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 2

 		[PUZZLE] #251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour
Just to say, I have now joined: it was irritating being a "guest" (see previous entry).
Quote:
"The thirteenth labour of Hercules: Stories"
has 214 pages in the English translation paperback, which would work for 64 refering to the page. If this is the right theory, and if this is the right text, but the code refers to the original Russian version, that would certainly add another layer of complexity!

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:12 pm
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dusty2229
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Joined: 14 May 2005
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 		Re: [PUZZLE] #251 - Silver - The Thirteenth Labour
Quote:
What if it is pure hexadecimal to be translated into decimal, and these numbers then used with a book code, starting at (guess!) page 64 line 12 word 8 of the key text, and taking the first (or second, or last???) letter of each word.


Just to clarify. How do we translate the code to be used in connection to pages/words in a book?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:43 am
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rkn_technician
Kilroy


Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 2
Quote:
Just to clarify. How do we translate the code to be used in connection to pages/words in a book?


OK, maybe I wasn't clear enough!

Assuming that the card lists a series of hexadecimal numbers, these all have a direct decimal equivalent notation which could be found using a good scientific calculator or a website that can convert from Base 16 to Base 10 such as http://www.ronshardwebapps.com/Numbers.asp (I've not used this, I just found it with Google as an example.)

This would then give a list of ordinary numbers, in apparently random order, with the maximum possible number being 255 (dec) from FF (hex) - from a quick glance at the card, FE (254) was the maximum I could actually spot.

Then, having found the correct book (that is the really difficult, trial & error bit!), I would suggest finding the 64th page, the 12th line on that page, and the 8th word on that line. This would be "word number 1" (or just possibly "word number 0" - it could be worth trying both!)

Using a nice sharp pencil for preference, go through the text, numbering the words from this point on in direct numerical sequence, until you reach 255, and then stop.

Then, using your list of decimal numbers, find the numbered words in the order of that list.

The classic way this code would work is to select the first letter of each of these words in that order, to give the message, but it would also be possible for the last letter of each word to give the solution, or even the whole words themselves, depending on how the code was set up. Remember that the original text, &/or the decoded message could easily be in another language, just to add an extra level of difficulty, or (nightmare scenario!) the resultant list of letters could require further decoding using letter frequency analysis etc (though there probably aren't enough letters for that), depending on how challenging the puzzle was meant to be!

For the most famous historical example of the simple technique, see http://smd173.tripod.com/Beale/BealePapers.htm which is about the (possible elaborate hoax!) of buried treasure in the USA, the details of which were given in three long lists of numbers, the second of which, with the key being the Declaration of Independence, is the only one to have been "decoded". The 3 lists of numbers are included on that website, but I wouldn't bother trying to decode them, since people have been wasting their whole lives on doing that for over a century, with no success!

I hope this makes my idea a bit clearer? Confused

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:39 am
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Reason
Unfettered


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 408
Location: West London

 		Just a random thought on this one; a new avenue to explore possibly...

Has anyone thought that the thirteenth labour could be the thirteenth star sign: Ophiuchus?

13 Labours just reminds me of Hercules's 12 labours. Which is related to star signs. The thirteenth star sign being Ophiuchus...

My astrology skills are extremely poor but its just a thought. I haven't had a chance to test if thats the answer; I doubt it, but it could be something to think about seeing as there are a lot of star related themees in this game...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:33 pm
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Scott
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 		What? Oh be reasonable!



Oh look. You are.

Reason-able, I mean ..

*cough* .. right .. I'll just get my coat.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:03 pm
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Reason
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Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 408
Location: West London
Scott wrote:
What? Oh be reasonable!


Everyones allowed a stab in the dark sometimes Wink
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All of my PerplexCity swag is up for grabs in an attempt to fund a trip around Asia:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:15 pm
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tipimike
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Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Location: UK

 		I think my head is about to explode!!!

I've just written an RC5 64/12/8 decoder and tried every possible key i can think of related to the card and the distributed.net keys and RSA keys but it doesnt come up with anything... so i'm thinking there must be a key lurking somewhere else on another card on the web somewhere?!??! has anyone got any ideas?!??!

has anyone spotted a hexadecimal code anywere... might look like one of the following formats:
0x63DE7DC154F4D039
63DE7DC154F4D039
63DE7DC1 54F4D039
63 DE 7D C1 54 F4 D0 39
It might me in the last format with codes across various cards each one with one 2 letter hex code?!?!

There may also be two such type codes lurking as it might have an IV... which takes the same format... its not necessary under RC5 but is used in the RSA tasks so may be there too!!!!!

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:06 pm
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Riiick
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 82
Location: Canterbury, Kent, UK
tipimike wrote:
I think my head is about to explode!!!

I've just written an RC5 64/12/8 decoder and tried every possible key i can think of related to the card and the distributed.net keys and RSA keys but it doesnt come up with anything... so i'm thinking there must be a key lurking somewhere else on another card on the web somewhere?!??! has anyone got any ideas?!??!

has anyone spotted a hexadecimal code anywere... might look like one of the following formats:
0x63DE7DC154F4D039
63DE7DC154F4D039
63DE7DC1 54F4D039
63 DE 7D C1 54 F4 D0 39
It might me in the last format with codes across various cards each one with one 2 letter hex code?!?!

There may also be two such type codes lurking as it might have an IV... which takes the same format... its not necessary under RC5 but is used in the RSA tasks so may be there too!!!!!

I will keep an eye out for codes in those formats. Would it be possible to make the decoder you have written availiable for others to try keys?

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:12 pm
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tipimike
Boot


Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Location: UK
Quote:
I will keep an eye out for codes in those formats. Would it be possible to make the decoder you have written availiable for others to try keys?


Thanks riiick.... just looking at things i wonder if the large partial letters are anything to do with it?!?!? my thougths are that as its a coded message they can tell us something pretty important in here... considering the lengths that you have to go to inorder to read it!!!

the decoder is far from a distributable app... its a unix prog that uses various mods i have on there, very much chucked together to get to a solution... no point to making it all nice and pretty!!!! But just post or email any codes and i'll try them all.

PS: I havent even got this card yet... but saw it and thought it looked like a good challange!!!

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:31 pm
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lillyplop
Boot

Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 52

 		Hiya Gys

I am going to a totally different place now so bear with me. I found a website that has a set of text that was set out in the same manner (different numbers and letters) as our 'hexadecimal code' and it claims that if you translate the text into http language you get a website address. Here is the web page

http://www.softperfect.com/products/networksniffer/manual/assemble.htm

Could this be viable? Instead of having to decode it, we have to translate it into a internet link? I dont know enough about this stuff to make proper sense of it but when my IT guy is looking for stuff on my pc he enteres what looks like random figures to access it via exlorer.

For example: 168.38.52.001

Does this make sense to anyone? Bazmadoodah if you are around and have the weblink I sent you can you post it?

Shoot me down in flames if you must but it made sense to me.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:36 pm
Last edited by lillyplop on Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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tipimike
Boot


Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 11
Location: UK
Quote:
I am going to a totally different place now so bear with me. I found a website that has a set of text that was set out in the same manner (different numbers and letters) as our 'hexadecimal code' and it claims that if you translate the text into http language you get a website address. I cant find the website at the moment but I have it saved at work. I will edit this post tomorrow and put the web page in.

Could this be viable? Instead of having to decode it, we have to translate it into a internet link? I dont know enough about this stuff to make proper sense of it but when my IT guy is looking for stuff on my pc he enteres what looks like random figures to access it via exlorer.

For example: 168.38.52.001


Hi Lillyplop

i've looked into all the possible encoding methods of this... it looks like your talking of a uuencoding type thing, that is used so special characters can be entered into a browser without causing it problems... you'll them them all starting with a % then a number... which is then translated by the web app to what it is. (the number you have quoted is an IP address... every computer on a network has a unquie number ... which is this!!)

I've played arround with various hex things with it just to check they're not trying to lead us on with the other bits.. but it does appear that it is deffinitely a RC5 64 bit encoded message... the problems is what is the key.... it took quite a few years and several hundred thousand computers to crack this with brute force... so they cant be expecting us to do that!!!!

Enjoy!

PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:58 pm
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Malinky
Boot

Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 15

 		Tipimike

Could you try the key 3E CD A1 5E 70 4F B3 1C ? This is the key used to break the DES II challenge by EFF which is related to the cracking DES book (the only book on the distributed.com website that has a five cow rating).

I've been looking at this card for weeks now and everything I've tried results in a dead end, I was using openssl to try and solve but I'm inept with linux and kept screwing it up.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:00 am
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