unforum

[Atrophied]

well, yes, technically it is solveable, but it just makes it harder (as Bri is seeing with his Brute-Force approach).

Yes, you could solve it without the other cards, but it's gonna take you a lot longer.

[rose]

cards

[mobius]

But if those card symbol clues are actually irrelevant to "shuffled" as mind candy implied by saying that each card puzzle is independant then trying to take them into account is going to make it impossible to solve. Of course going by brute force isn't very elegant and I don't think that's meant to be the way either. I guess we'll only really know for sure when it's been solved.

[beglee]

Does anybody have a copy of the book that the Solitaire cipher was first detailed in, Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson. Its possible that the message on the card was encrypted using a pass phrase that was used in the book to encrypt a message or even an excerpt from the book. A list of all passphrases used to encrypt messages in the book would be useful. Ill probably go out and buy myself a copy anyway soon though.

[mobius]

I'm thinking about getting it as well. There are a few things that the cards have peaked my interest in.

[lauriek]

You should get it regardless of PPC - its a great book!

[MatthewJames]

If you want a good book, Read:

[Atrophied]

You'd get more clues if there were any more to give.

This card has not yet been solved, so we can't give you any more information than what we have already posted here.

Side note - Although your interest is appreciated, book suggestions don't really need to be spoilerised.

[MatthewJames]

Sorry Atrophied

I won't spoil what does'nt need to be spoiled with a spoiler again!

[mobius]

well I've given myself headaches now trying to do solitaire cipher by hand different ways. Wouldn't it be annoying if it wasn't a solitaire cipher after all! I mean there are no guarantees are there?

[Honest Goblin]

I think that it is a Solitaire Cipher but I believe that the bit we need to decode is centre of the message rather than the section in heat changing ink.

"If entropy wins the outward looks should leave you cold" could mean that if entropy wins within the closed system of the card then there will not be sufficient heat energy to cause the writing to disappear meaning that looking outwards (towards the ends of the message) will leave you cold (further away from the answer) because even if you have a correctly keyed deck then the answer will be gibberish as you will have carried out the first ten steps on the wrong message and will be at the wrong place in the keystream when it comes to decoding the proper message.

Also the fact that you have to do something to the card to make those letters vanish would indicate that they are an additional layer of protection for the code and not the message itself. If they were the message then whoever tried to crack it using Brute force would be able to get the first 10 letters of the message as there is nothing providing a barrier in front of them to throw the deck order out.

That's the theory I am currently working on anyway. Of course my knowledge of the second law of Thermodynamics and the Solitaire code both consist of what I have been able to glean from the internet in the last two weeks .

HG

[mobius]

Don't worry about it, I had two years of lectures in thermodynamics (and lectures in communications so I know about information entropy as well) and I'm still no better off than anyone else's views here.

[ramsfan]

Beglee
Cryptonomicon had been sitting on my shelf unread before I started reading these postings. Only 200 pages through as it's competing with the end of Anthony Powell's very long "Dance to the Music of Time". I am looking for clues as I read. I've posted a list of possible 8 letter words at 13th labour, where they were looking for them. Yours was the posting (in Riemann) which mentioned Comstock. In case Bruno Schneier's own description of the Solitaire cipher helps, it appears at
http://www.schneier.com/solitaire.html
as in the appendix at the end of the book.
He gave permission to Neal Stephenson to use the cipher and he may have given permission for its use on this card. I guess someone could approach him through www.counterpane.com, though I imagine cryptographers don't give away too many clues.

[beglee]

Ive read the Solitaire description on that page before ramsfan and have a decent understanding of the workings, i think. I also downloaded the java version of an encoder/decoder for the Solitaire cipher, i think it was from that site too. Ive been using it to try out many, many, MANY different words/sentences as keys over the last week or two, with no success so far. I'll try those words you mentioned on the 13th labour card discussion now, although ive tried one or two of em before...

...nope, no luck. If i had been smart, i would have kept track of all the things ive tried as keys, but alas i didnt. If anyone else has suggestions for the key phrase, i'll gladly try em if you post them up, and ill keep track of all my attempts from now on.

Im getting a copy of Cryptonomicon from a friend in the next few days, so i can start reading it and maybe stumble on a clue or an idea.

[chichiri]

Reminds me of another terrible crash bandicoot pun, (dr N Tropy)

not really relevant but I thought I'd note that he controls time with an odd magnet on a stick.

why am I writing this (brain fizzles into nothingness, but not before saying)

no da