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Shad0
I Have No Life
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 2180 Location: Southern California, USA
[META] More themes We've been having so much fun identifying the eight archetypes, so I thought I'd throw this out there:
thedealer wrote:
The lynching and the bar-room brawl, the stage-coach stick-up and the showdown at high noon.
1929
Lynching: Palmer Strauss's fate, we can presume
Barroom brawl: Pete Schwimmer's beating
Stagecoach stick-up: McGurn's attempt to rob an armored car
Showdown: Two-Gun Hart takes out One-Eyed Mickey
1945
Lynching: The hanging of the German officer
Barroom brawl: Mitzi shooting Ernst
Stagecoach stick-up: Polaris and Whitecloud attempt to steal a train
Showdown: Could be either Maurice shooting Father Mueller, or poker with Svetlana, depending on your point of view -- I prefer the poker game
2005
Lynching: Don hangs Tony
Barroom brawl: Lucy and Spider fight
Stagecoach stick-up: Spider holds up William's limousine
Showdown: November 19?
(All I have for 1914 so far is the showdown. Help?)
_________________These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:22 pm
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 3651 Location: Is not Chicago
Dang, Shad0. Trust you to take the little glimmerings I felt when I read the text, and actually extrapolate it out all neat like that.
Nice work.
I swear, you all make my brains melt like microwaved gummi bears.
_________________
Alternate Currency
Stories and dreams, crossing my palm like silver.
xbl gamertag: krystyn
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:56 pm
SuperJerms
Unfettered
Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 537 Location: indiana
Well, it's weak, but I think this time the subplots were more metaphors of the themes, since there obviously wasn't a literal hanging. Here's the possible things we could reconstrue as liberal theme adaptations (in no specific order after the first ones, which I see as most plausible)...
stick-up:
- Hearst intercepts Bierce to get the manuscript.
- Major Damon intercepts Pancho Villa to get W.R. Hearst.
lynching:
- When Patton hears that Abel has shot a priest, he hopes it will end with a firing squad -- a period specific lynching.
- Villa's men hold Hearst up by his arms, so he is "hung up" while Pancho squares off to shoot him.
- Michaels killed a lot of Boxers...not too far from lynching considering how little chance they stood in the rebellion
- Caldwell is always dragging Rosita around by her hair
- Caldwell kills Rosita's brother for treason
- Someone mentioned that Bierce's death scene is a retooling of an old Twilight Zone story where a fella fantisizes that he's escaped and made it back home to a loving family (just as his neck breaks while he's being lynched)
- Soapy said he ran with lots of folks that ended up lynched, such as Billie the Kid.
brawl:
- Bar fight between Villa/Hearst/Michaels.
- Bar fight between Hearst and Soapy (Bierce's story).
- Bar fight killed O'Grady's father.
showdown:
- Patton draws on Caldwell
- O'Grady draws on Caldwell
- Michaels draws on Villa
- Hearst draws on Bierce
- Hearst draws on Soapy
Hey, if the Matrix is an adaptation on the themes, then we know these themes aren't 100% literal.
_________________"If we could make your toaster print something we would." - Jordan Weisman
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:24 am
Shad0
I Have No Life
Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 2180 Location: Southern California, USA
SuperJerms wrote:
stick-up:
- Hearst intercepts Bierce to get the manuscript.
- Major Damon intercepts Pancho Villa to get W.R. Hearst.
The thing is, neither of these involved any sort of vehicle or other mode of transportation that could be likened to a stagecoach -- unlike the other three time periods, all of which have obvious direct parallels. The closest thing I can come up with in 1914 is that the whole "moving guns across the border" scheme might be a metaphor for the stagecoach... but I don't really like it.
SuperJerms wrote:
lynching:
- When Patton hears that Abel has shot a priest, he hopes it will end with a firing squad -- a period specific lynching.
Hmm. That's somewhat related to only the idea I had: the Dorados shooting Hearst full of holes in Bierce's fantasy. I rejected it because it didn't really happen... but in retrospect, why should we do that? It's still part of the story.
SuperJerms wrote:
- Someone mentioned that Bierce's death scene is a retooling of an old Twilight Zone story where a fella fantisizes that he's escaped and made it back home to a loving family (just as his neck breaks while he's being lynched)
Although this is an interesting idea too. (The "Someone" was thunderclap8 , by the way, and it was a brilliant find.)
SuperJerms wrote:
brawl:
- Bar fight between Villa/Hearst/Michaels.
I think that's gotta be the showdown, not the brawl.
SuperJerms wrote:
- Bar fight between Hearst and Soapy (Bierce's story).
Aha! I like it! Bingo!
_________________These were the puzzles that would take a day, these were puzzles that would take a week, and these puzzles they'd probably never figure out until we broke down and gave them the answers. ... The Cloudmakers solved all of these puzzles on the first day.
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:29 am
Arana
Unfettered
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 353 Location: shallow grave
Anyone else notice this parallel?
Tough girl in trouble is called out of the blue by a yong technogeek who says that he can help her. She thinks he's a crank, but is then convinced to listen by his apparent inside knowledge. They team up and work together.
The description fits both Lucy and Matt in Last Call Poker AND Jan and Jersey in ILoveBees!
_________________If it's *spec* you never have to say that you're sorry.
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:02 pm
krystyn
I Never Tire of My Own Voice
Joined: 26 Sep 2002 Posts: 3651 Location: Is not Chicago
And Laia and the Red King, too, in a pinch.
_________________
Alternate Currency
Stories and dreams, crossing my palm like silver.
xbl gamertag: krystyn
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:06 pm
sapagoo
Charter Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2002 Posts: 1213 Location: Atlanta, GA
2005
Bill: William Shiner
Cross-dresser: Corazon
1945
Bill: Capt. William Reed
Cross-dresser: Martin/Maria Halder
1929
Cross-dresser: J. Edgar Hoover
1914
Bill: William R Hearst
1877 ?
Bill: William Bonney
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:10 pm
Dorkmaster
Unfictologist
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 1328 Location: The People's Republic of Dork
I'm willing to bet it's actually Bill Hickok, not the kid. They've already mentioned Hickok previously, (or am I making that up? ) so I think that's your oldest-timey Bill. Anyway, nice catch
_________________"The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet." -William Gibson
"Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it." - PJ O'Rourke
"ACADEMY, n. A modern school where football is taught." - Ambrose Bierce
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:21 pm
missphinx
Unfettered
Joined: 02 Oct 2003 Posts: 395
It's not exactly a full-fledged, capital-T Theme, but I like the way Lucy's bath is mirrored by Jenny's bath in GUN (see http://www.gunthegame.com/ --> "The Game" --> "Screenshots" --> left side, fourth down)
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:50 pm
Astald
Unfettered
Joined: 01 Aug 2004 Posts: 747 Location: Just outside of Pittsburgh (Go Steelers!)
missphinx wrote:
It's not exactly a full-fledged, capital-T Theme, but I like the way Lucy's bath is mirrored by Jenny's bath in GUN (see http://www.gunthegame.com/ --> "The Game" --> "Screenshots" --> left side, fourth down)
Yeah. I saw that on a trailer on tv(think I was watching Spike) and was going to say something about it.
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:16 pm
CoffeeJedi
Unfictologist
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 1327 Location: Charlotte NC, USA
SuperJerms wrote:
Hey, if the Matrix is an adaptation on the themes, then we know these themes aren't 100% literal.
Kid - Neo at first (straight from Lucky's mouth) - or the character "The Kid" who makes an appearance in the Animatrix and the sequels
Preacher - The Oracle
Gambler - Morpheus, took a "gamble" on Neo on blind faith
Sheriff - Agent Smith
Killer - Cypher
Drunk - Persephone, addicted to human emotions
Banker - Merovingian
Halfbreed - Neo, bridges the gap between humanity and the matrix
edit: made some revisions
_________________seeker > !seek canoe
!splotch
Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:26 pm
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