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 Forum index » Archive » Archive: Last Call Poker » LCP: General/Updates
[SPEC] - The gun, the characters, the whole overall story
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Abraxas
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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Location: Cologne, Germany

I'd focus on Lincoln County. Johnson County is really just a desperate idea to get the link between Wild Bill Hickok, Dakota Territory and Ambrose Bierce. Razz
As you said yourself, Sherman seems to be something to consider for the last week, as 15th November seems to be an important date, plus it's 14 days after Day of the Dead. Since the Wednesday update started with Tuesday, there's a good chance that will happen again in two weeks from now.

I think 1864 is too far back with another week left. And it seems logical that the Civil War will be the topic in the last week of LCP rather than now.
Plus, the time frame for next week would lead up to the one in GUN if it was Lincoln County. So I think there's plenty that speaks for it and you are just one week too early with your spec, mapmaker. Wink

Edit:
Here's something interesting on 7th November 1877 (that would be the Tuesday prior to update-Wednesday) from this incredibly bad designed web page (no links to previous and next page!!) (it might contain spoilers, thus the spoiler tag):
Spoiler (Rollover to View):

Nov. 7, 1877---A drunken Sheriff Brady enters the Tunstall store and begins accusing him of giving credit for the arrest of the members of the Evans Gang to Dick Brewer rather than himself. Brady goes on to call Tunstall a fool, and Tunstall does the same to him. Brady then accuses Tunstall of trying to help Evans, Hill, Baker, and Davis/Graham escape from jail. Tunstall takes offense to this and states that Brady knows full well that the outlaws have cut holes in the logs over their heads and have filed down their shackles, but has done nothing about it. Brady then begins to pull his pistol, but McSween, who is also present, restrains him, saying that it wouldn't look very good for the sheriff to kill and unarmed man. Brady apparently agrees and holsters his pistol. As he leaves, he tells Tunstall that he won't be sheriff forever and Tunstall doesn't have long to run.

Looks like a nice little scene for LCP.
The problem is that Tunstall isn't killed during this timeframe, thus Morton isn't a perfect fit for The Killer.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:13 pm
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konamouse
Official uF Dietitian


Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

From the wikipedia for Lincoln County War:

Spoiler (Rollover to View):
In the fall of 1877, shortly after Bonney was hired by Tunstall, violence broke out. The House proprietors Dolan and Riley obtained a court order to seize some of Tunstall's horses as payment for an outstanding debt. When Tunstall refused to surrender the horses the Lincoln County sheriff, William Brady, formed a posse led by deputy William Morton to seize the horses. After protesting the presence of the posse on his land, Tunstall was shot in the head by Morton and Bonney vowed revenge.


I think we have our time period and major players. I'm sure there will be some fictionalized characters to round out our playing cards.

Other notible dates in November:

Doc Holliday died Nov 8, 1887
We may want to bone up on our knowledge of the American West.

And for next week:
Nov 14, 1862 - American Civil War: President Abraham Lincoln approves General Ambrose Burnside's plan to capture the Confederate capital at Richmond, Virginia, leading to the Battle of Fredericksburg.
Nov 8, 1864 - Abraham Lincoln was re-elected (by a landslide)
Nov 11, 1864 - American Civil War: Sherman's March to the Sea - Union General William Tecumseh Sherman begins burning Atlanta, Georgia to the ground in preparation for his march south.
Nov 10, 1865 - Major Henry Wirz, the superintendent of a prison camp in Andersonville, Georgia, is hanged, becoming the only American Civil War soldier executed for war crimes.

Here is some more info on JEB Stuart (where this may have all started):
James Ewell Brown Stuart(February 6, 1833 – May 12, 1864) was an American soldier from Virginia and a Confederate Army general during the American Civil War. He was known to his friends as "Jeb".



/me spec's we're going back to 1877 after NY, 1864 after Atlanta, and back to 2005 in LA.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:56 pm
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Abraxas
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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@konamouse
You italicized Tunstall so I guess you think it is important? I'd agree if only Tunstall was shot in November, but he died in December...
Anyways, I still think it will be 1877 in Lincoln County and Tunstall will be the Banker.
Why do you think going back to 2005 is special? We are doing this all the time. I agree with the rest of your spec (as per what Shad0 and mapmaker already found out and posted).

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:55 pm
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konamouse
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
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We know that the PMs have sometimes taken liberties with historical accuracy to help the story. They may very well change the names to create some fictional character that fits the time frame. I was just going off the spec of "November" (since the previous events happened around the right month, just previous years in history).

As for "going back to 2005" - I think that the Poker Tables and home page will resort back to the present after the LA event. Just fits. We should have our final showdown with the gangs, Don, Lucy, etc over the GUN. The story started in an LA cemetery, so it is fitting that it will end in an LA cemetery (and if it's at Hollywood Forever, they have hookups for internet broadcasting).
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:54 pm
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Abraxas
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Crap, I was wrong. Although Billy The Kid is mentioned having shot (P, I guess) Sullivan - but Grouard was the real killer - we are indeed in Deadwood and not in Lincoln County. Did Lucky bluff? Laughing

Our deck for 1876:

Colton White - The Kid
Ned White - The Preacher
James Butler "Wild Bill" Hickok - The Sheriff
Martha Jane Canary aka "Calamity Jane" - The Drunk
Thomas Hollister - The Gambler
William Massie - The Banker
Mary Alice Chambers aka "Snow Falling" - The Half-Breed
Frank Grouard - The Killer (Ned and Don call him half-breed, but he is not Indian at all...it's mentioned somewhere...whereas Snow Falling is a true half-breed)

Edit: SuperJerms helped me clear this up. Thank you! Smile
I think we worked out the best match and I'll just remove the points of indecision. Wink

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:59 pm
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hidamari
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Joined: 29 Oct 2005
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Abraxas wrote:

Colton White - The Kid
Ned White - The Preacher
James Butler "Wild Bill" Hickok - The Sheriff
Martha Jane Canary aka "Calamity Jane" - The Drunk
Thomas Hollister - The Gambler
William Massie - The Banker
Mary Alice Chambers aka "Snow Falling" - The Half-Breed
Frank Grouard - The Killer (Ned and Don call him half-breed, but he is not Indian at all...it's mentioned somewhere...whereas Snow Falling is a true half-breed)


Snow Falling describes herself as a "Lakota orphan" raised by whites. In real life (i.e., in addition to the several descriptions of him as a half-breed in LCP), Grouard claimed to be half-Pacific Islander.

Admittedly, the only such description we have of Snow Falling is in Don's Western novel, and I don't have a better archetype for her.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:20 pm
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Shad0
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Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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Re: 1876 archetypes

Abraxas wrote:
Colton White - The Kid
Ned White - The Preacher
James Butler "Wild Bill" Hickok - The Sheriff
Martha Jane Canary aka "Calamity Jane" - The Drunk
Thomas Hollister - The Gambler
William Massie - The Banker
Mary Alice Chambers aka "Snow Falling" - The Half-Breed
Frank Grouard - The Killer (Ned and Don call him half-breed, but he is not Indian at all...it's mentioned somewhere...whereas Snow Falling is a true half-breed)

I disagree with a couple of these. True, Grouard isn't half-Indian, but he's still half-something, according to Four hundred and eighty bits of flesh:

Cole wrote:
His father said Grouard wasn't part Indian. He'd lived with the Sioux for a long time but he was maybe colored because he came from New Orleans. Cole didn't know about colored.

More importantly, Ned -- who is the one who told Cole that Grouard wasn't part Indian -- still explicity refers to Grouard as "the half-breed" in Face-to-face with my maker:

Ned wrote:
Ned gave the half-breed a gratified look.

Finally, the Western paperback novel on Don's page also expressly calls Grouard a half-breed, in Be the shooter:

Some unknown author wrote:
The half-breed's eyes had tracked it [the Gun] when they first played cards with the fat planter, he and Sullivan and the rest.

[META]I just don't see the PMs giving us that many false cards.[/META]

I also suspect that Hollister is going to turn out to be the Killer, not the Gambler. We know that he wishes Ned were dead, from Wild Bill's bullet in your liver:

Hollister wrote:
Ned White hadn't died and he was bored, and that was all the reason he needed.

We also know that Hollister's been spreading the rumor that Ned was shot by a Sioux Indian, from Every other halfwit finds gold here:

Hickok wrote:
Nobody knows [who shot Ned], but Hollister's been saying it was Sioux.

And we also know that Hollister's tale is false, from Face-to-face with my maker:

Ned wrote:
That fellow who bushwacked me— he was not an Indian.

I'll bet that Hollister, who has a pretty unsavoury reputation already, is the one who shot Ned. [META]Plus, didn't I read something somewhere about Hollister being a baddie in Gun the Game?[/META]

Now, I know what you're thinking. "That leaves Falling Snow as the Gambler! That can't be right!" I agree, she's not. But... I think the Gambler is our luckless friend J. McCall.

[aside]Historically, Wild Bill Hickok is already dead by November of 1876. He died on August 2, 1876, shot in the back of the head by one Jack McCall...[/aside]
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:39 pm
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SuperJerms
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Those are the exact points Abraxas made when I talked him out of it. It hinges on the fact that we only have 8 cards, and 8 archetypes. If you wanna go outside those cards, you'd have to consider Sitting Null, Crazy Horse, Custer, Charlie Utter, etc.

Sure, Gourard is a half-breed, just like Martin Halder was a kid. But what does that make Mary Alice? She doesn't make sense as anything else, even if she is a true-blooded Souix. Process of elimination makes that list shape up that way.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:46 pm
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ThaJinx
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I asked if the possibility of a Civil War jump was mentioned in IRC, and was told that it had, but I don't see a lot in this thread regarding, so I figured it'd be safe to bring it up.

I'm wondering if the name Sullivan is amounting to an ambiguous pun due to Lucky's recent update, and I've got the feeling that we're heading to the Civil War this weekend. A lot of us are looking at Sullivan as a last name, mainly because we've had two characters with said last name. Did a bit of research following said update.

Lucky wrote:
We are nearly back to Genesis, to the very Cain and Abel of the story of the Gun, while all the time, today, Sullivan's curse and Sullivan's stolen gun now lie at last in the hand of his descendent, Kerry Tucker, as he walks, bleeding from many wounds, through the bodies of scattered Mi Casa henchman.


First off, the Civil War was American vs. American, making Cain and Abel the perfect comparison. Secondly, Sullivan? We've been thinking the Gun's line began with J.E.B. Stuart.

Probably one of the better known stories of the Civil War is that of a Sullivan Ballou, a Union soldier from Rhode Island who wrote a beautiful final letter to his wife, Sarah, before going off into the battle that would ultimately end his life. After a week, he died from the wounds he'd received at the First Battle of Bull Run.

The Virginia Cavalry was led by none other than James Ewell Brown Stuart.

We're heading back to 1861 Virginia, methinks.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:10 pm
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konamouse
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Joined: 02 Dec 2002
Posts: 8010
Location: My own alternate reality

konamouse wrote:
* konamouse spec's we're going back to 1877 after NY, 1864 after Atlanta, and back to 2005 in LA.


Maybe we are looking for Col. Peter John Sullivan except this P Sullivan is noted to have died in 1883 at age 61.
According to the family tree that Don got from Lothar, our PSullivan was killed in 1875 (to get his gun).
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:53 pm
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