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 Forum index » Diversions » Console/Video Game Discussion
[Nintendo Revolution] Controller Revealed!
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vortech
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 465
Location: Atlanta, GA
Pluvius wrote:
vortech wrote:
This controller keeps making people talk about to powerglove as an example of a nintendo failure. this confuses me for two reasons:
1. it was a Mattel made controller.


It may have been Mattel-made, but it was definitely condoned by Nintendo. It even made an appearance in the Wizard, the infamous NES propaganda movie.

Rob

Everything for the NES was condoned by Nintendo. They even had that little gold seal of approval.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:57 pm
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Pluvius
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002
Posts: 50
ubersaurus wrote:
Genesis is backwards compatible-remember the Power Base Convertor?


I remember that being an optional accessory that added SMS compatibility to a system that didn't have it normally (the convertor had to turn off the Genesis' 68000 CPU and force the system to do all of its processing through the Z80 sound chip; it wasn't simply a matter of adapting the connectors). Heck, it doesn't even fit on the newer model systems. You can't say that a system has backwards compatibility as a selling point if it only has it through a hard-to-find add-on that can only plug in properly to certain models.

Quote:
Dreamcast's major titles?


I wasn't asking for its major titles; I was asking for its AAA titles. Its system-sellers. The only one I can think of that really deserves the title is Soul Calibur. Sonic had lost a lot of his popularity by the time the DC came around, and everything else was either niche (yes, even Shenmue) or available on other systems. And even if it had more, the fact that people just didn't like Sega consoles anymore (if they ever did, really; the big reason why the Genesis did so well, notwithstanding the blip that uncensored Mortal Kombat caused, is because the SNES took forever to come out) was simply insurmountable. (Again, a problem that Nintendo looks like it may have to face.)

Quote:
Also, 400 bucks for the Xbox360 vs the 500-700 projected price range for the PS3 is a hell of a difference.


In what country? It might be that much in Japan (Sony did the same thing with the PS2, remember?), but everything I've seen lately about the NA price (except for rumors from Sony itself, which are probably BS) is saying $400 American.

Quote:
Note I'm not getting the 360 at launch, either


I'm not getting anything at launch. I'm content with what I have. I'll probably end up getting both the XBox 360 and the PS3 when the prices become reasonable in a few years, though. As for the Revolution, I'm going to need more proof of concept and so forth before I say anything there.

vortech wrote:
Everything for the NES was condoned by Nintendo.


You should tell the people at Atari that; they'll probably ask you why Nintendo sued them over Tengen in that case.

Rob

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:54 am
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ubersaurus
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004
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 		Sonic Adventure wasn't a system seller? I seem to recall that damn near every dreamcast sold had a copy of Sonic. Further, triple A doesn't denote "system seller", I'd list Beyond Good & Evil as a triple A title for any platform it's on, and it certainly wasn't a system seller. You meant a system seller, you should've said a system seller.

Personally I'm looking to pick up a Revolution, as online smash brothers is really all they needed to sell me on it. 360, naturally, I'll get with Halo 3's release. And the PS3, well, my PS2 seems good enough for a while.

Nintendo has never failed me when it's come to making excellent games. I don't expect that trend to cease now.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:04 am
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vortech
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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Pluvius wrote:
Quote:
Dreamcast's major titles?


I wasn't asking for its major titles; I was asking for its AAA titles. Its system-sellers. The only one I can think of that really deserves the title is Soul Calibur. Sonic had lost a lot of his popularity by the time the DC came around, and everything else was either niche (yes, even Shenmue) or available on other systems.

See, I don;t understand this question. There were some DC titles I would buy the console 3 time over just to have had, but they didn't sell the system. After all, nothing sold the system. This is the problem. It kinda seems like you are begging the question.
Quote:

vortech wrote:
Everything for the NES was condoned by Nintendo.


You should tell the people at Atari that; they'll probably ask you why Nintendo sued them over Tengen in that case.

Rob

Hmm, in my head there was a "at that point" before what I wrote. I even considered going into the lawsuits, but I decided nobody would care to hear it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:47 am
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SuperJerms
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Joined: 21 Aug 2004
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Location: indiana

 		http://lostgarden.com/2005/09/nintendos-genre-innovation-strategy.html

Great article on this whole controller announcement and the difference in business strategies between Sony/MS and Nintendo. It starts out a little...thick, but really makes the point I've been trying to hit.

Nintendo has and will continue to be the gameplay innovator, whereas others seek to be gameplay perfectors. Nintendo innovates the experience and sells the new experience in a competition vaccuum (less expensive games for higher profit margins), others take the good games and make more developed, immersive, cinematic or polished versions (more expensive games for higher sales margins).

The controller is most important because it allows gameplay that is not only designed differently but is immersively, kinetically and socially different. As he puts it, innovation is most easily done by making "new verbs" and it's obvious that this controller lends itself to a whole new universe of "verbs."

Quote:

...
Nintendo needs new genres
That last point about the strategies of brand-based publishers is an important one. Nintendo needs new genres to make money.

Nintendo makes the majority of their money by leveraging their brand recognition during the early to mid-stages of a genre's life cycle. The power of the Mario character can establish a Nintendo game as an early genre king and help tap into a new market segment for great profit. However, as they get later into the life cycle, the standardization of the genre mechanics and the intense demands of the hardcore population reduces the power of the brand.

A few major games will dominate the mature genre and it is unlikely that Nintendo's will be one of them. Nintendo's fixation on new genres and their unwillingness to pander completely and utterly to the existing hardcore audiences has made their name mud with many of the most vocal elite in the game industry.

Product innovation leads to increased profitability
C'est la vie. You can't have it all. Focusing on product innovation at the expense of commodity markets is a classic business strategy that is used successfully in non-game companies around the world. Companies like 3M are required as part of their strategic plan to have 30% of their revenue come from new products. They are constantly exiting markets when strong competition emerges and constantly competing with themselves by offering new products that outdate their existing products. Nintendo releases new genres where other companies release new products, but the basics are the same.

The non-business person looks at this strategy with horror. Nintendo invented the 3D platformer, yet they have no major product in that niche at the moment. Surely this is the most obvious sort of stupidity. However, consider the following portfolio management issues:

The likelihood of getting a genre king early on in a genre life cycle if you invented the genre is quite high. Competition is limited.
The cost of creating a genre king early in the genre life cycle is low. You can rely on things like simplified graphics and limited amounts of content. The neo-retro graphics of most Nintendo games has a lower cost of production than the realistic look of many of its competitors.
The cost of creating a genre king late in the genre life cycle is high. Customers demand realistic graphics, voiceovers, cut scenes, loads of extra content, etc.
The risk of having your game not becoming king of the genre goes up. The competition is simply greatly increased. Mario is a great game, but would it own the entire genre if it were forced to compete against Jax and Daxter, Sly Cooper, Prince of Persia and others?
What you find is that selling innovative products early on can be dramatically more profitable and less risky than selling commodity products. The early market might not be as large, but the money is much better. You see this over and over again. Nintendo sells less but makes more money. Sony and Microsoft sell more, but make less profit.

Consider this tidbit. The Xbox, which focuses on highly mature genres catering to hardcore gamers has production costs of $1.82 million a title. The Gamecube costs half as much at $822,000 a title. The real kicker is that the Nintendo DS only costs $338, 286 a title to develop for, even less than the Gameboy. Some of these costs have to do with the hardware and development kits, but for the most part they are derived from the scope of the projects. Being able to develop successful titles at 1/5th the cost of your competitors is a major boost to your bottom line.

Thus, Nintendo's profitability and need to innovate go hand in hand. They need those new genres because the old ones quickly become too competitive and too expensive.

New controller features as a source of Innovation
The new controller is best seen in light of this larger corporate strategy.
...


there's more at that link
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:19 am
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ubersaurus
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004
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 		So the guy at Factor 5 who leaked out the 360's specs ahead of time, has claimed to leaked out the Rev's specs now.

" a multithreaded PowerPC 2.5 GHz with 256 KB L1 cache and 1 MB of L2 cache (diff from the dual-core 1.8GHz CPU with 512KB L2 cache we heard about before), a Physical Processing Chip (PPU) with 32MB of dedicated RAM, 512MB of system RAM (we heard it would have 256MB of main DRAM before), a custom ATI "RN520" 600MHz CPU with 256MB of RAM (that's about what we'd heard, but 128MB of RAM). Apparently the device will support external resolutions up to 2048 x 1268 though HD support is still as yet undecided, and it will have 7.1 surround, too."

Discuss. Looks to me like nintendo is leaving HD support up to the game developers themselves, rather than making it mandatory.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:44 pm
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chichiri
Decorated

Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 207

 		BS all round!

no da

PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:55 am
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