unforum

[Hituro]

Although as noted above the image on the card (from what I can see of the scan) doesn't match any of the example crystals that came with the viewer it is very close to those with a regular hexagonal crystal structure, like quartz.

However since a given difraction pattern could be rotated to produce many different designs that might be co-incidence. The co-ordinates, from the programme, appear to be z, x, y in that order.

[ammonite]

this done at high speed 'cos I'm at work - i *think* it's right. attached is a map showing the positioning of the coordinates on the card - if you look at the scan and this together it should be clear which coordinates go where. Bear in mind that the axis on the card is tilted slightly to the left. I know the scan isn't clear but hey that's 60 dpi for you.
pip pip happy electrospemactogrooving or whatever it is you plan to do!

[Mikeyj]

If you don't have any joy Curlytek, let me know, there's a guy in my department that is likely to be able to help and I've just got the card (hooray, my first silver!)

'Lethal' suggests some sort of toxin, ricin, cholera toxin...ad infinitum, 'mirror' in the hint I guess cos of the 2 fold symmetry, 'differently' as x-ray diffraction?

[Curlytek]

We are on the case Mikeyj, but feel free to go with your leads.

It is definitely a diff. pattern, probably a toxic material (but unlikely to be a very complex molecule because there is really only a very small amount of data given). This will very likely involve a fair bit of guess work, even after we have extracted all we can from the data on the card.

[Daffydil]

Hi

I am new to these forums, so should probably say Hello first. I discovered Perplex City at the weekend, and am well and truly hooked!

I received this card in my first pack, and have been thinking about it ever since.

After twigging that it was X-ray crystallography I started thinking about the title and Von's clue.

My current thoughts are along the lines of Chirality, perhaps a substance that has left and right handed varieties (from the mirror clue) one of which is beneficial, and the other a toxin (Differently lethal, also Von's clue again, about sometimes needing to explore the deadly hall of mirrors)

Following this train of thought I discovered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillamine, but that was wrong (Obviously I didn't discover it, but you know what I mean )

What do you reckon? Something similar?

[cassandra]

Along those lines (chirality/enantiomers), has anyone tried

[Daffydil]

[ramsfan]

Who do we know at the University of Illinois?
http://www.brightsurf.com/news/sept_03/EDU_news_090403.php
I've asked for Surfjan Steven's album Illinoise for Christmas. I think the album covers everything going on in the state, so I'll let you know when I've found the track.

[ramsfan]

Have looked up stereochemistry, isomers, toxins etc. Led to arsenic, cyanide, botulinum, clostridium and anthrax toxins. These were the most well known toxic substances linked to this idea, which feels the right one to me. There were loads of other obscure toxins but I don't think that will be the answer - it will be a substance we've all heard of. Sadly can't find any images to compare. And to think my real work on the internet today consisted of finding Tim Howard, the Man Utd goalkeeper's website, so I could raise the spirits of a young fan with Tourette syndrome.

[lillyplop]

Just tried Thalidomide, Cyanide and Anthrax.

Didnt work.

Differently lethal.

Could it mean lethal but in a different way? Not in the 'kills ya stone dead' way but maybe something that kills something other than human beings?

I may be talking rubbish but these silver cards (compared to Syzygy) are ultimately designed to make your head explode.

Maybe the Perplexians are not our friends, maybe they want us to be so engrossed in solving the cards that we wont notice them taking over the world?

[Mikeyj]

It's a shame thalidomide didn't work, that would be quite an elegant solution. The reason that it proved toxic was that a mix of the left and right handed forms (the two stereoisomers) was given, one being teratogenic the other therapeutic. Fits quite nicely with "differently lethal". Could the answer be the structural name 2-(2,6-dioxo-3-piperidinyl)-1H-isoindole-1,3(2H)-dione?

Have fun typing it in!

Curlytek, my crystallographer friend is abroad at the mo, unhelpfully, so all yours!

[lillyplop]

OK here is something weird. I have long since wondered if whats on the back of the cards is a hint, or a nudge in the right direction only we have to figure out how.

I put in the names Gerlach, Upton and Garand into google and got

http://www.nait.ca/alumnait/.%5CLost%5C1975.pdf

This is only a contacts list. Funnily enough all three surnames appeared on this list. Not sure about first names but

Thomas Upton Accountant
Richard Gerlach BSTP BioSci Pollution
Helen Gerand MXT Medical X Ray Tech

May be a cioncidence, but to have all three names listed as alumni in the same year AND to have their jobs listed as well and two of the three to be in medicine and science, maybe not so coincidental. Only problem with that is where to go next. Unless we are looking at a pollutant? Maybe we should be looking for human and agricultural toxins?

Oh well off to see if I can dig a little deeper......hate silver cards.

[lillyplop]

Jumping further out of the box, how about in the vein of exploration, what diseases that we have immunity to have been accidentally taken to other countries during explorations. Diseases that we, over the years, have developed immunity to or have developed cures for, but for others who have never been introduced to these bacteria/virus ect itcould be letal!

Dear Lord, I think I have fallen into Sci Fi land and have become infected with the 'thinks way too much about crap' virus. I fear there is no hope for me.

[Tufty]

Right, I passed this card to an old uni buddy, who now hapopens to be a Doctor is Biochemistry and he had the following to say:

[ammonite]

Wow. Thanks for taking the time out from your ROSPA duties to source all that all the information Tufty. Is it me or does the crystal shape look a bit like the Third Power logo?